Apple is "amazing, incredible, great, easy"

mantakos said:
I had to use activesync with some windows mobile devices, and I agree that it sucked, but what does an iphone user have to use activesync for?
-harry
Click to expand...

It was Apple's solution to the obvious overlook of giving users enterprise email through OWA. It works the same way as Windows Mobile.

Disgusting.
 
jesse said:
Why does Activesync suck? I can see it being more difficult for you to troubleshoot as a former T-Mobile employee. But from an enterprise's perspective with competent administrators Activesync works quite nicely.

A lot of companies simply aren't comfortable with all their data blasting through third-party networks.
Click to expand...

Activesync is awesome when it works like it is supposed to: Plug in the device, let it sync. Unplug.

But then, you start getting the typical "Microsoft errors" that help nobody, including the end user fix them. It has nothing to do with my previous time at T-Mobile (I was actually an Activesync SME, and people from all over the center came to me for help with it), Activesync is crap, and it doesn't work very well. Its like trying to use the Blackberry Redirector. That is also crap software. The difference is that Blackberry has an awesome built in mail client that works wonders (Windows Mobile does too, through a built in ActiveSync application that works pretty well, until it fails and you have to try to fix it through Activesync on the PC, which is also failing).

A phone should be a phone, working standalone from a PC. For the reason for that, try reloading Blackberry operating system software with a Macintosh. Unless you buy an expensive software package, it won't happen. Windows Mobile and the Android give you the ability to do it without using a computer.

But that's deep techy stuff. From the consumer's POV:

1) Free apps
2) Phone choices
3) Carrier choices

That is what matters. Blackberry, Windows Mobile and Android have all of the above. the iPhone has 1 of the above, and their free apps suck, for the most part.
 
SkyHog said:
Activesync is awesome when it works like it is supposed to: Plug in the device, let it sync. Unplug.

But then, you start getting the typical "Microsoft errors" that help nobody, including the end user fix them. It has nothing to do with my previous time at T-Mobile (I was actually an Activesync SME, and people from all over the center came to me for help with it), Activesync is crap, and it doesn't work very well. Its like trying to use the Blackberry Redirector. That is also crap software. The difference is that Blackberry has an awesome built in mail client that works wonders (Windows Mobile does too, through a built in ActiveSync application that works pretty well, until it fails and you have to try to fix it through Activesync on the PC, which is also failing).

A phone should be a phone, working standalone from a PC. For the reason for that, try reloading Blackberry operating system software with a Macintosh. Unless you buy an expensive software package, it won't happen. Windows Mobile and the Android give you the ability to do it without using a computer.

But that's deep techy stuff. From the consumer's POV:

1) Free apps
2) Phone choices
3) Carrier choices

That is what matters. Blackberry, Windows Mobile and Android have all of the above. the iPhone has 1 of the above, and their free apps suck, for the most part.
Click to expand...

Nick -- you obviously are not aware of what Activesync is when it comes to an iPhone integration. You do not do anything on your PC or on your Mac. It is all handled on the phone and has nothing to do with your computer. You enter a few exchange settings into the phone and the phone then loads the contacts, calendar, and e-mail from Exchange via the ActiveSync protocol.

Activsync Push via Exchange *HAS NOTHING* to do with the ActiveSync desktop client you are referring to. Microsoft basically gave the same name to two different products.

It *IS* the best way to integrate into Exchange. The fact that you act like Apple made a bad choice licensing ActiveSync and using the ActiveSync push protocol makes NO sense.
 
Last edited:
jesse said:
Nick -- you obviously are not aware of what Activesync is when it comes to an iPhone integration. You do not do anything on your PC or on your Mac. It is all handled on the phone and has nothing to do with your computer. You enter a few exchange settings into the phone and the phone then loads the contacts, calendar, and e-mail from Exchange via the ActiveSync protocol.

Activsync Push via Exchange *HAS NOTHING* to do with the ActiveSync desktop client you are referring to. Microsoft basically gave the same name to two different products.

It *IS* the best way to integrate into Exchange. The fact that you act like Apple made a bad choice licensing ActiveSync and using the ActiveSync push protocol makes NO sense.
Click to expand...

In that case, I retract my comment. I was under the impression that it used the ActiveSync desktop application. If it uses the same ActiveSync mobile application that Windows Mobile uses, then yes, it is very user friendly, and useful.
 
Blackberry, Windows Mobile and Android have all of the above. the iPhone has 1 of the above, and their free apps suck, for the most part.
Click to expand...
You're departing from reality, here, when you suggest that Android, Windows Mobile, Blackberry and iPhone have sufficiently comparable app support that it counts as a single "check mark" for all of them. Mac OS, Windows, Linux, and FreeBSD all have "free apps", but I wouldn't exactly call that a 4-way tie when it comes to application support (and it's silly to suggest that only free apps matter).

A web browser that exudes painful suck (e.g. WM6 IE and Opera) and a web browser that works really well will both provide a check for the corresponding box, but the difference in pain levels will certainly motivate a consumer who has had a chance to try each.
-harry
 
mantakos said:
You're departing from reality, here, when you suggest that Android, Windows Mobile, Blackberry and iPhone have sufficiently comparable app support that it counts as a single "check mark" for all of them. Mac OS, Windows, Linux, and FreeBSD all have "free apps", but I wouldn't exactly call that a 4-way tie when it comes to application support (and it's silly to suggest that only free apps matter).

A web browser that exudes painful suck (e.g. WM6 IE and Opera) and a web browser that works really well will both provide a check for the corresponding box, but the difference in pain levels will certainly motivate a consumer who has had a chance to try each.
-harry
Click to expand...

I've yet to see a mobile browser that doesn't suck. Lord knows that IE Mobile sucks, as does Safari on the iPod (I assme its the same one the iPhone has), and the one on the Blackberry sucks very badly. The one on the Android also sucks, but I'm used to it now.
 
mantakos said:
And is it your assertion that they "suck about the same"?
-harry
Click to expand...

Yes. Once you descend below a specific level of suck, it is all the same, and I feel that all of the mobile browsers suck the same (except the blackberry browser, which sucks on a whole new level).
 
gprellwitz said:
I'm with Verizon, which has good service, but mediocre phones. My company doesn't support Blackberrys to get email, calendaring, etc. I'm thinking of the HTC Touch Pro 2, which is Window 6.1 based. Anyone know of a better option with Verizon? Or should I just chuck Verizon, move to AT&T, and get an iPhone?
Click to expand...

While all these zealots are arguing over which religion is better... :)

I suggest staying with Verizon as my experience is their coverage is better than AT&T's. I have the AT&T equivalent of the HTC Touch and am satisfied with the phone's features. The form factor is comfortable and the slide-out keyboard is handy for typing responses without consuming display real estate. The down side is the difficulty of one-handed typing, but it's very rare I'm in a situation where I wish for that (like I could on my old Motorola Q). FWIW, I disabled the HTC TouchFLO interface as I find the WinMobile interface easier to interpret with a better layout for business users.

If your company uses Outlook Web Access, you should have no problem linking your HTC Touch to sync mail, calendar and lookup corporate addresses.
 
I'm not a big phone nut, but the iPhone rules. I was nervous about ditching Verizon but I have had 0 issues with coverage. THe iPhone is fantastic. Nothing else I've seen comes close. I have to thank Kent for showing me the light!!!!
 
The only reason to have a Blackberry these days is if your IT department at work says "here is your Blackberry, take it." :rofl:

Apple's chief advantage with the iPhone is not neceessarily the unit itself (which I like too) but the whole package from unit to support to integration to software. No one and I mean no one is coming close to them here. I'm sure there is an industry term for this concept but I am misremembering it at the moment :rolleyes: :blush: I would be open to a Android device once Google gets their house in order a little better.

I'm not sure why you don't like the Safari mobile browser, Nick. While I don't like desktop Safari releases, for a mobile browser it clearly rules head and shoulders above the rest. Or, in alternative terms, it clearly sucks the least amount.
 
Last edited:
SkyHog said:
Yes. Once you descend below a specific level of suck, it is all the same, and I feel that all of the mobile browsers suck the same (except the blackberry browser, which sucks on a whole new level).
Click to expand...
I haven't seen an OS that sucks as bad as my Blackberry's since OS/2 Warp. It sucks beyond just the browser level. I am impressed with my iPhone, and it works just fine on T-Mobile in both the US and Europe. The Browser rocks in comparison to either RIM's or IE Mobile. Yes, I had several devices that used IEM and my main issue was they never rang loud enough. I did like the Word and Excel Mobile features though. Another major issue was that if I was sweating and answered the phone, it would be an hour or more before the touch screen straightened out and I could dial a number.

So far the iPhone is the best I have had, and is working just fine on the Optus network here in Aus.
 
jesse said:
..and..these apps aren't just there and easy to get at. Unless Microsoft has released an App store I don't know about.
Click to expand...

Screw the App store. THAT is one main reason I cannot stand Apple (despite the iPhone itself being a nifty multi-tasking device that happens to be a so-so phone as well). If Microsoft where to do what Apple does they would be drawn and quartered in the public square...but noooooo vaunted Apple gets a pass.

Sorry but the only way I will own an iPhone is if it jailbroke...but than again to go through that hassle just to use a phone the way *I* want to and not the way Apple sees it, despite "nifty, neat, gee-golly" view they may have.
 
alaskaflyer said:
The only reason to have a Blackberry these days is if your IT department at work says "here is your Blackberry, take it." :rofl:
Click to expand...

Or if you have a corporate security officer (like me) that takes securing data on mobile devices seriously....which is something that Apple does not.

It is a neat "toy" but not ready for prime-time in the corporate world.
 
What's always interesting to me in this Apple vs. whatever debate is how worked up the anti-Apple folks get. Can any of the folks spewing vitriol about Apple explain what it is about the company or it's products that elicit that reaction? A rational discuss/debate about the pros and cons of any particular tool and it's suitability seems hard to find when Apple products are being discussed. If you at all believe in theory of free or efficient markets, then it's hard to right off as "it sucks" something that has sold 1.8 billion applications in just over a year. With over 100 million credit card users with iTunes accounts, it's one of, if not the largest stores on the internet and the #1 music retailer in the world. And this is all something that didn't exist until a few years ago. You might not like it personally or it might not suit your business or personal needs. But again, what is it about this company and it's technologies that evoke the nasty kind of reaction that always seems to surface in these discussions?

Personally, I think it's something Microsoft puts in the Kool Aid, but that's just me :)
 
PittsDriver said:
But again, what is it about this company and it's technologies that evoke the nasty kind of reaction that always seems to surface in these discussions?
Click to expand...

I think it's Apple Stem envy...

:rolleyes:


Actually, I was a Mac fan from the time I bought one (1988) until I was forced to use Windows 95 (work).

Since I was a Mac person, Windows 95 came easily. Since then I haven't used or purchased a single Apple computer.

I do have an iPod.

But even when I was a Mac fan, it was based on my appreciation for the superior overall system engineering. I could buy a printer, plug it in, and it worked. I didn't have to speak DOS, and I could see what the paper would look like when printed when it was still displayed on the screen. Those were good features for me at the time and supported what I was using a computer for -- other work (as opposed to being paid to work on the computer).

I eventually wrote software for the Mac and was invited to several trade shows on Apple's dime to talk to school administrators, etc about the superiority of the Mac platform (at a time when "Business is PC, amateurs use Macs")

Yet I never quite figured out the "mission" that many of my fellow Mac users felt compelled to join.

They bought into a manufactured missiology that provided a sense of clan superiority over all those dumb clones.

I think it's interesting that this "smarter than them" mentality also aligns closely with a specific political bent common among Mac fans.
 
I think it's interesting that this "smarter than them" mentality also aligns closely with a specific political bent common among Mac fans.
Click to expand...
Is there a political bent that doesn't have a "smarter than them" mentality?
-harry
 
tdager said:
Or if you have a corporate security officer (like me) that takes securing data on mobile devices seriously....which is something that Apple does not.

It is a neat "toy" but not ready for prime-time in the corporate world.
Click to expand...

Blackberry, Windows Mobile, iPhone and Android all use the cloud to transfer data (including email). How do you think BES users that receive their email outside of the BES range get it?
 
flyersfan31 said:
I'm not a big phone nut, but the iPhone rules. I was nervous about ditching Verizon but I have had 0 issues with coverage. THe iPhone is fantastic. Nothing else I've seen comes close. I have to thank Kent for showing me the light!!!!
Click to expand...

Agreed about Verizon's coverage. My only gripe with Verizon is the lack of Java support for apps like Google's products.

I asked a sales tech recently about the rumored "iPhone coming to Verizon soon" ; he said that as he understands it, the "issue" they've had is lack of ability to support them locally, maintenance-wise, in stores. They've prided themselves on being able to service & support their phones quickly; Apple wants them shipped to Cupertino for repair. (yeah yeah, it's just what this guy said, I know there's more to it than that).

That said, I've used about every phone Verizon has; currently have the LG enV2; next will be the LG enV Touch, unless they get the iPhone in.
 
tdager said:
Or if you have a corporate security officer (like me) that takes securing data on mobile devices seriously....which is something that Apple does not.

It is a neat "toy" but not ready for prime-time in the corporate world.
Click to expand...

please explain.
 
tdager said:
Or if you have a corporate security officer (like me) that takes securing data on mobile devices seriously....which is something that Apple does not.

It is a neat "toy" but not ready for prime-time in the corporate world.
Click to expand...

That's a good one. A good example of why I said what I said. Every device has its brand of koolaid associated with it and this seems to be the predominant one associated with RIM.
 
Can any of the folks spewing vitriol about Apple explain what it is about the company or it's products that elicit that reaction?
Click to expand...
There's just something about Apple and Prius owners...


-harry
 
well, smarter and more virtuous, then.
Click to expand...
Which one are we talking about?

mac_pc.gif


-harry
 
PittsDriver said:
What's always interesting to me in this Apple vs. whatever debate is how worked up the anti-Apple folks get. Can any of the folks spewing vitriol about Apple explain what it is about the company or it's products that elicit that reaction? A rational discuss/debate about the pros and cons of any particular tool and it's suitability seems hard to find when Apple products are being discussed. If you at all believe in theory of free or efficient markets, then it's hard to right off as "it sucks" something that has sold 1.8 billion applications in just over a year. With over 100 million credit card users with iTunes accounts, it's one of, if not the largest stores on the internet and the #1 music retailer in the world. And this is all something that didn't exist until a few years ago. You might not like it personally or it might not suit your business or personal needs. But again, what is it about this company and it's technologies that evoke the nasty kind of reaction that always seems to surface in these discussions?

Personally, I think it's something Microsoft puts in the Kool Aid, but that's just me :)
Click to expand...

In my case...a while back...
  • Apple was running ads showing a Mac was faster than a PC. We got a new Mac in the lab and noticed our favorite programs that existed on both platforms ran substantially faster on a PC. Enough so that when we imported certain databases, we did it on a PC and brought the files into the Mac.
  • Macs tried to think for you, and did it poorly. If a TIFF image came from a different program than the program that was on your Mac, you couldn't open it unless you knew how to fiddle with the resource fork. No such problem on a PC then, Windoze has been getting worse about this for awhile.
  • Apparently, the coders for Macs didn't know about malloc(). If your file exceeded the memory allotted for the program, the program would just stop. Couldn't save or anything. I don't know how many times I had to raise the memory allocation on a program manually to get my work done.
  • Macs were virus prone. Now PCs have this issue.
  • Programming tool for a Mac cost an arm and a leg due to Apple's licensing arrangement for their code to work with the compilers. PC programming tools are still free (VB express, VC express, SQL Server Express, etc).
As for now? Can't say. PCs seem to be cheaper than Macs and seem to generally work as well for what I need to do now. I haven't had a need to buy a computer in some time.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
In my case...a while back...
  • Apple was running ads showing a Mac was faster than a PC. We got a new Mac in the lab and noticed our favorite programs that existed on both platforms ran substantially faster on a PC. Enough so that when we imported certain databases, we did it on a PC and brought the files into the Mac.
  • Macs tried to think for you, and did it poorly. If a TIFF image came from a different program than the program that was on your Mac, you couldn't open it unless you knew how to fiddle with the resource fork. No such problem on a PC then, Windoze has been getting worse about this for awhile.
  • Apparently, the coders for Macs didn't know about malloc(). If your file exceeded the memory allotted for the program, the program would just stop. Couldn't save or anything. I don't know how many times I had to raise the memory allocation on a program manually to get my work done.
  • Macs were virus prone. Now PCs have this issue.
  • Programming tool for a Mac cost an arm and a leg due to Apple's licensing arrangement for their code to work with the compilers. PC programming tools are still free (VB express, VC express, SQL Server Express, etc).
As for now? Can't say. PCs seem to be cheaper than Macs and seem to generally work as well for what I need to do now. I haven't had a need to buy a computer in some time.
Click to expand...
Well, every item on that list would no longer be an issue for you. The Old Apple and what is Apple today are dramatically different. *
 
If it wasn't for AT&T (less bars, more places), I'd jump all over the iphone. The available apps are great but AT&T's service sucks eggs.
 
Last edited:
Cap'n Jack said:
In my case...a while back...
  • Apple was running ads showing a Mac was faster than a PC. We got a new Mac in the lab and noticed our favorite programs that existed on both platforms ran substantially faster on a PC. Enough so that when we imported certain databases, we did it on a PC and brought the files into the Mac.
  • Macs tried to think for you, and did it poorly. If a TIFF image came from a different program than the program that was on your Mac, you couldn't open it unless you knew how to fiddle with the resource fork. No such problem on a PC then, Windoze has been getting worse about this for awhile.
  • Apparently, the coders for Macs didn't know about malloc(). If your file exceeded the memory allotted for the program, the program would just stop. Couldn't save or anything. I don't know how many times I had to raise the memory allocation on a program manually to get my work done.
  • Macs were virus prone. Now PCs have this issue.
  • Programming tool for a Mac cost an arm and a leg due to Apple's licensing arrangement for their code to work with the compilers. PC programming tools are still free (VB express, VC express, SQL Server Express, etc).
As for now? Can't say. PCs seem to be cheaper than Macs and seem to generally work as well for what I need to do now. I haven't had a need to buy a computer in some time.
Click to expand...

Where to start...

"Macs were virus prone"? huh? when? what viruses?Y

What programming tools for the Mac cost an arm and a leg?

What programs did you have that required so much memory?

It's a myth that PCs are cheaper than Macs. Compare like hardware.
Don't compare cheap crap to the Mac - that would be like comparing
cheap windoze computers to enterprise windoze computers.

Macs never tried to think for you - apparently you are confusing Apple
with microsofts you-will-do-it-this-way approach to the user experience.
 
SkyHog said:
Blackberry, Windows Mobile, iPhone and Android all use the cloud to transfer data (including email). How do you think BES users that receive their email outside of the BES range get it?
Click to expand...

We accept the risk of transfer, I was speaking specifically of data at rest.
 
alaskaflyer said:
That's a good one. A good example of why I said what I said. Every device has its brand of koolaid associated with it and this seems to be the predominant one associated with RIM.
Click to expand...


Really? How about knowing what the hell you are talking about before you jump up and down on the Mac-fan wagon.

Here is a clue...or three:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/07/iphone_encrypti.html
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1495164/iphone-encryption-broken
http://www.examiner.com/x-9438-SF-Business-Tech-Examiner~y2009m9d15-Banishing-the-iPhone-from-the-enterprise
http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/iphone/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217800170

and finally:
http://www.iphoneinsecurity.com/

I do this for a living, daily I am working knee-deep in keeping my company safe and secure, so do not presume that simply because someone says that something you like is not yet ready for prime-time in the enterprise that is some sort of "I hate Apple" rant.

Hell my wife owns and iPhone! I do have philosophical issues with Apple and the way they do things, but that does not change the fact that for a secure enterprise the iPhone is not yet there.


ADDED: Sorry for being so grumpy....but I get tired of the fanboys in my own company that do nothing be evangelize the product and think that anyone that does not "see the light" just does not get it. In the end I do not care what people use, so long as it meets our basic security requirements which the iPhone does not, at this time. Once it does it will be allowed.
 
Last edited:
Cap'n Jack said:
In my case...a while back...
Click to expand...

What was it Harry said about viewing the universe differently? That's never been my experience and I essentially managed the computer network for a start-up that was essentially mac based from 6 guys with a dream to the largest IPO in Wall St. history in 1997. It's only gotten better since then.

But whatever... it's no worries to me what kind of computers anyone prefers. I was just expressing some puzzlement over the reaction of folks on their beliefs about a tool.
 
PittsDriver said:
But whatever... it's no worries to me what kind of computers anyone prefers. I was just expressing some puzzlement over the reaction of folks on their beliefs about a tool.
Click to expand...

That's the key difference Apple fans revel in and Apple Inc. engenders -- that it's not "just a tool" -- it's some sort of community/ chic/ smart-button.
 
dmccormack said:
That's the key difference Apple fans revel in and Apple Inc. engenders -- that it's not "just a tool" -- it's some sort of community/ chic/ smart-button.
Click to expand...

There's definitely a brand of superior smugness that seems to permeate the Apple community. Perhaps that's what gets people worked up? I'd still have to ask why though? Is Apple a threat to IT professionals? Maybe they're just tired of being beaten on by their users about why they can't have Apple products?

It's my theory that the vast majority of all IT energy is spent on solving the problems that IT created to begin with. What else would explain a multi-gigabyte Office that essentially does the same thing it did 15 years ago in a tiny fraction of the cost. Good for IT job security but bad for quality of life. I wonder if some of the backlash doesn't come from being threatened by simple, easy solutions that would eliminate most of their reason to exist?

There's a definite smugness to corporate IT departments irrespective of the underlying technology. What's up with IT scrubbing apps like Quicktime or iTunes off of computers? I know one very successful company's CEO that won't let his IT department touch his PC because every time they do they automatically delete a number of apps that he uses daily. He's tried to rein them in but they play the "it's technology you wouldn't understand" card and the "we're actually making your life easier" by taking away those things you think you need strategy.
 
PittsDriver said:
There's definitely a brand of superior smugness that seems to permeate the Apple community. Perhaps that's what gets people worked up? I'd still have to ask why though? Is Apple a threat to IT professionals? Maybe they're just tired of being beaten on by their users about why they can't have Apple products?

It's my theory that the vast majority of all IT energy is spent on solving the problems that IT created to begin with. What else would explain a multi-gigabyte Office that essentially does the same thing it did 15 years ago in a tiny fraction of the cost. Good for IT job security but bad for quality of life. I wonder if some of the backlash doesn't come from being threatened by simple, easy solutions that would eliminate most of their reason to exist?

There's a definite smugness to corporate IT departments irrespective of the underlying technology. What's up with IT scrubbing apps like Quicktime or iTunes off of computers? I know one very successful company's CEO that won't let his IT department touch his PC because every time they do they automatically delete a number of apps that he uses daily. He's tried to rein them in but they play the "it's technology you wouldn't understand" card and the "we're actually making your life easier" by taking away those things you think you need strategy.
Click to expand...

Any IT person who feels that Apple is going to take away their job security is an absolute idiot. Apple systems really don't require *less* work with enterprise management -- often more -- because their tools just aren't there.

I've made a great deal of money making Apple servers do things that I could do with a Linux system in 10 minutes.
 
Bob Noel said:
Where to start...


"Macs were virus prone"? huh? when? what viruses?Y
Back in the mid '90s. I didn't keep track of all the viruses. I do know that certain public use machines were veritable cesspools of viruses. If you read my post, you'll note that I said PCs have more viruses. If Macs get popular enough, they will probably get viruses again.

What programming tools for the Mac cost an arm and a leg? BASIC. PASCAL C, C++. Pretty much all the CodeWarrior stuff

What programs did you have that required so much memory?
ChemDraw.

It's a myth that PCs are cheaper than Macs. Compare like hardware.
Don't compare cheap crap to the Mac - that would be like comparing
cheap windoze computers to enterprise windoze computers.
Your may be right...there are some incredible deals on multi-core Windoze machines now. I'm not intending to buy right now so I'm not looking too deeply.

Macs never tried to think for you - apparently you are confusing Apple
with microsofts you-will-do-it-this-way approach to the user experience.
Did you actually read my post? I can still open a TIFF or a text file from any application in Windows. I'm sure Macs let you do that now. When I used them, sharing programs between Macs creating the same file types from differing programs was a real PIA. We usually found it easier to use a PC as a "go between" since the resource fork would then be stripped from the file. It's annoying when a machine says you will use THIS program and I won't open the data from another lab because they used THAT program.
Click to expand...

As Jesse (and I) noted, this was some time ago. However, the question was asked why some people prefer PCs...my answer is based on my actual experience...yours is undoubtedly different.

If I were looking for a new computer today, I would consider a Macintosh. My Windoze PCs have been reliable- little things like running them off a UPS seem to help as well as being somewhat careful about web browsing. I also tend to find it's poorly written programs that tend to make more problems than the OS and there are more of those for the PC.

To me a computer is just a tool. It needs to let me get my work done. I also want to be able to program it- a computer you can't program is like a firearm without ammo.
 
>"Macs were virus prone"? huh? when? what viruses?
> Back in the mid '90s. I didn't keep track of all the viruses. I do know
> that certain public use machines were veritable cesspools of viruses.
> If you read my post, you'll note that I said PCs have more viruses.
> If Macs get popular enough, they will probably get viruses again.

I did read your post, hence my questions. btw - you didn't say PCs have
more viruses. You said that PCs have that problem now. This implies
that viruses were more of a problem on macs than PCs. And this is the
first time I have EVER heard viruses being more of a problem for
macs than windoze.

>What programming tools for the Mac cost an arm and a leg?
> BASIC. PASCAL C, C++. Pretty much all the CodeWarrior stuff

you and I have different definitions of "arm and a leg".

>Macs never tried to think for you - apparently you are confusing
> Apple with microsofts you-will-do-it-this-way approach to the
> user experience.
> Did you actually read my post? I can still open a TIFF or a text file
> from any application in Windows. I'm sure Macs let you do that now.

Yes I read your post.

I have never EVER had a problem opening a text file from any program
on the mac (except those that don't understand text).

I have never EVER had a problem opening a TIFF file from any program
on the mac (except those that don't understand TIFF).

I was startled by your experience with the mac. I still get no end
of amusement when the windoze user doesn't know how to open
a file unless it has the correct .xxx extension.

Clearly we have very different experiences with macs and windoze
 
PittsDriver said:
There's definitely a brand of superior smugness that seems to permeate the Apple community. Perhaps that's what gets people worked up? I'd still have to ask why though? Is Apple a threat to IT professionals? Maybe they're just tired of being beaten on by their users about why they can't have Apple products?

It's my theory that the vast majority of all IT energy is spent on solving the problems that IT created to begin with. What else would explain a multi-gigabyte Office that essentially does the same thing it did 15 years ago in a tiny fraction of the cost. Good for IT job security but bad for quality of life. I wonder if some of the backlash doesn't come from being threatened by simple, easy solutions that would eliminate most of their reason to exist?

There's a definite smugness to corporate IT departments irrespective of the underlying technology. What's up with IT scrubbing apps like Quicktime or iTunes off of computers? I know one very successful company's CEO that won't let his IT department touch his PC because every time they do they automatically delete a number of apps that he uses daily. He's tried to rein them in but they play the "it's technology you wouldn't understand" card and the "we're actually making your life easier" by taking away those things you think you need strategy.
Click to expand...

Unless one works at Apple...what business relevance does iTunes have?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top