AOPA starting a nationwide high school aviation program

N918KT

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http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/...irst-High-School-Aviation-Education-Symposium

Interesting article about AOPA wanting to start up a nationwide high school aviation program. Never had an aviation program at my high school growing up. I did an extracurricular Aviation Exploring program at MMU about once every month during the evening during high school and community college.

On a side note, do you think high school students should learn about aviation as a requirement to graduate from high school? It seems that according with this article AOPA wants all high school students in the U.S. to learn aviation. I think we should encourage or strongly recommend students to learn all that they can about aviation but not be forced to learn about aviation as a requirement to graduate high school.
 
We had a future pilots of America club at my high school. They flew a Cub. I think there were only like 5 members though (I was not one).
 
.....



On a side note, do you think high school students should learn about aviation as a requirement to graduate from high school?.......

I think we should encourage or strongly recommend students to learn all that they can about aviation but not be forced to learn about aviation as a requirement to graduate high school.


No.

And I agree.
 
Good job AOPA. As a high school student I can say I'd much rather be learning about aviation than sitting in AP Lit right now...
 
Good job AOPA. As a high school student I can say I'd much rather be learning about aviation than sitting in AP Lit right now...

I'm 17 with my PPL. I wonder how many other teens are on here with their license.


If my school had a flight program I would be so happy. I completely agree with the above post.
 
I don't think there is anyone on the planet who thinks aviation should be a requirement for high school graduation. Where did that come from? It's certainly not in the AOPA article.

Aviation as a STEM activity is a good idea. There is a lot of physics that goes into ground school. It's gonna be very expensive to go beyond that, though, much more expensive than any of the alternatives, including the pricey robotics competitions. For that reason alone, the idea is going nowhere. And then there is the liability issue…. Does AOPA ever come up with ideas that can actually work?
 
On a side note, do you think high school students should learn about aviation as a requirement to graduate from high school? It seems that according with this article AOPA wants all high school students in the U.S. to learn aviation. I think we should encourage or strongly recommend students to learn all that they can about aviation but not be forced to learn about aviation as a requirement to graduate high school.

If they choose it as coursework? Sure, make it a requirement to graduate. No one is holding a gun to their head and telling them they have to choose it as an elective. I'm sure it would count as an elective credit or a substitution for science/math coursework, so why not make it count if they choose to pursue it?
 
Does the Air Force Jr. ROTC program still exist?

A lot of the material regarding aviation, aviation history, and so forth was covered in those classes. I was in the program and thought it good, though I imagined some potential students were turned off by having to wear a uniform once a week and the haircut requirements. Two classes a week was Leadership, and I suspect that also drove some potential students away. We learned charts, airspace, the use of a plotter and E-6B, along with a lot of other stuff.
 
Good job AOPA. As a high school student I can say I'd much rather be learning about aviation than sitting in AP Lit right now...
I'm 17 with my PPL. I wonder how many other teens are on here with their license.


If my school had a flight program I would be so happy. I completely agree with the above post.

Naturally the two that are all for it...are in high school:rolleyes2:

When I was in high school they had some intro engineering courses which were interesting, and certainly no cakewalk. We had classes on how to use CAD and a lot of the people that did it went on to go to school for civil engineering. I think if you are gonna do a high school course on aviation, it should be geared toward aeronautical engineering with a high level of math and physics. Not spending half the day out at the airport getting your private pilot license. I did my pilot license when I was 17. Wanna be a pilot, go do it on your own time.

Funny we were just talking about things we learned in high school last weekend at the pub and someone showed me this:
Things I Never Learned In High School
  • How to do taxes
  • What taxes are
  • How to vote
  • What political parties are
  • How to write a resume/cover letter/anything related to getting a job
  • How to write a check/balance a check book
  • Anything to do with banking
  • How to do loans for college
  • How to jump start a car or other basic emergency things
  • How to buy a car or house
but I’m so glad I know the f***ing pythagorean theorem!

Granted, I remember learning how todo half of those in college. But the other half would have been useful to learn as well!
Does the Air Force Jr. ROTC program still exist?
Yes it does.
 
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I'm 17 with my PPL. I wonder how many other teens are on here with their license.


If my school had a flight program I would be so happy. I completely agree with the above post.

18 years old with my PPL.
 
Funny we were just talking about things we learned in high school last weekend at the pub and someone showed me this:
Things I Never Learned In High School
  • How to do taxes
  • What taxes are
  • How to vote
  • What political parties are
  • How to write a resume/cover letter/anything related to getting a job
  • How to write a check/balance a check book
  • Anything to do with banking
  • How to do loans for college
  • How to jump start a car or other basic emergency things
  • How to buy a car or house

Someone didn't pay attention. I learned all of those things in high school, between civics, English, accounting, and driver training classes.
 
Someone didn't pay attention. I learned all of those things in high school, between civics, English, accounting, and driver training classes.

Oh I did, like I said I remember learning most of them. Buying a house/car certainly wasn't in the curriculum.
 
Naturally the two that are all for it...are in high school:rolleyes2:

When I was in high school they had some intro engineering courses which were interesting, and certainly no cakewalk. We had classes on how to use CAD and a lot of the people that did it went on to go to school for civil engineering. I think if you are gonna do a high school course on aviation, it should be geared toward aeronautical engineering with a high level of math and physics. Not spending half the day out at the airport getting your private pilot license. I did my pilot license when I was 17. Wanna be a pilot, go do it on your own time.

Funny we were just talking about things we learned in high school last weekend at the pub and someone showed me this:
Things I Never Learned In High School
  • How to do taxes
  • What taxes are
  • How to vote
  • What political parties are
  • How to write a resume/cover letter/anything related to getting a job
  • How to write a check/balance a check book
  • Anything to do with banking
  • How to do loans for college
  • How to jump start a car or other basic emergency things
  • How to buy a car or house
but I’m so glad I know the f***ing pythagorean theorem!

Granted, I remember learning how todo half of those in college. But the other half would have been useful to learn as well!
Yes it does.

Interesting. I've learned all of those things in high school besides how to jump start a car. I learned that in the high school drivers ed course.

There are a lot of useless elective classes offered at my school so I don't see why an aviation related class would be any different. Kids who are interested take it and get school credit for something interesting and something that could potentially be useful for them in the future, which is more than I can say for many required classes I take now.
 
Making it a requirement ain't gonna happen. NO how, no way. An elective or perhaps even an academy (a euphemism for what we used to call vo-tech back in the day), perhaps. Crap, we can't even teach kids basic life skills like banking and voting, etc.. because it ain't on the NCLB tests teachers are forced to teach to.
 
Yeah I like the idea. No one suggested making it a requirement, just an elective of some sort. The article doesn't even mention flying as necessarily being part of the programs. It's mentioned only in terms of STEM education, although students will be exposed to flying and many may wish to go up for lessons - likely on their own dime or perhaps on scholarship.

Getting a certificate or even passing an FAA written won't be likely - and don't appear to be in the scope anyway - as the semester isn't nearly long enough. But exposure to aeronautical STEM concepts would be beneficial to them and to GA. Maybe they choose to go up for a few hours also.
 
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My wife is an aerospace educator, now at the Smithsonian, but before that she was a middle school special education teacher. She ran TWO aero clubs, one general, one for girls only (plus coached the state champion for two years Science Olympiad free-flight team). The county also runs an aviation academy at Westfield High (closest high school to Dulles). She was loosely assigned there when she spent three years as the county "teacher in residence" at the Udvar-Hazy center. They so a lot of activities with school trips but everything is a non-starter unless you can match it to the mandatory "Standards of Learning."

I had my run-in with the Standards years ago when I read her copy of it. The first grade curriculum involved explaining the significance of several major holidays. Independence day, memorial day, etc... Then I got to Lee-Jackson-King day. WTF is Lee-Jackson-King day. Apparently Lee-Jackson day for a few years go merged with MLK's Birthday. Now there is a very odd holiday. Fortunately, MLK follows the federal (always Monday) schedule now and Lee-Jackson got their own day back.

Of course some local municipalities have stopped observing it entirely in PC attempt to deny the war of northern aggression ever existed.
 
My High school offered an aviation course in my senior year (1975) that was supported by a grant from the FAA. It was an elective that was only available to 10 seniors. I was lucky to get in, they had many more than 10 apply. (can't remember exactly how many)

It was basically ground school in the classroom with actual flying with the instructor, who I assume was a CFI, after school. The FAA supplied the funds for the course work, and the instructor but the student (me) had to pay for the rental of a Cessna 152. I had to work a lot of hours pumping gas, and busing tables to afford the $25/hr rental charge.
 
Thought I'd chime in here.
Graduated high school in 2014. Ppl train started at the end of 2012 and ended beginning of 2014.
The whole reason I started my flight training was because a teacher at my school (retired navy guy who did something with subs) started an aviation 'club'. His whole goal was to maybe get it set up with the local flight school (where I did all my training) as a way to introduce some students to aviation, and as a ground school to take the written exam for the ppl.
I don't think much came of it, partly due to the flight school owner. But the first couple meetings was well attended, about 20 people if I recall. Granted I'm the only one who ever did anything about it though.


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As an old timer ,had one aviation math class in high school ,but was also a member of the CAP, after which I joined the Air Force, now I own an airplane.
 
Someone didn't pay attention. I learned all of those things in high school, between civics, English, accounting, and driver training classes.


With the exception of "what taxes are, what political parties are" I don't think you will get any of those questions answered in the basic core classes in high school.

The core classes in NC are English, Social Studies (civics, history), Science, Math. The rest of the stuff on the list, classes are offered but you can choose to take other classes instead. So it's entirely probable that lots of kids come out of high school with no idea how to do many of those things on the list. In fact I know many people who graduated with me in 2006 and still have no idea how to do most of the things on that list.
 
Hell, one of my clients teaches early elementary school. She says kids are so wed to their electronic devices they are losing the manual dexterity to hold a pencil.

Having said that, I applaud AOPA's efforts at outreach.
 
It should be an extracurricular activity, not a part of the required program. We are already graduating students with basic skills and knowledge far below those of when I graduated HS. We should not take time away from teaching the basics. I love aviation but there are ways for those who are interested in aviation to become exposed to it without it deterring from the learning they need to do.
 
Hey guys. I just reread the article I posted and you guys are right in that AOPA is not requiring all high school students to learn about aviation as a graduation requirement. Seems that they want to only include aviation as a subject in high schools. Sorry about that.

But anyways back to the subject. I think it would be great if high school students get exposed to aviation in high school but whether or not they decide to take up aviation as a hobby or as a career is up to them.

I remember back in middle school my school had a career day and I remember the school bringing in an airline pilot and a flight attendant to talk about their jobs. I sat in both of the sessions and if I remember correctly, the airline pilot talked about the good and the bad of being an airline pilot. I think I ignored the downsides of being an airline pilot and only focused on the good part. Also, the flight attendant talked about how to become a flight attendant including a story that happened during her training of becoming a flight attendant.
 
Today, aviation and the airlines are a matter of life. My entire career has been jumping from one airline seat to another. (only within the past 10 years have I "found" GA.) Some basics in high school (even as an elective) on the airspace system and how airplanes actually work is today a "life skill". Period.

You would not believe the number of folks that have zero idea on how "the system" works. I've seen business men scream and pout like babies because it is clear as a bell "out the window" yet there is a blizzard in a major hub - they just don't get it. One reason I keep peeking at twins - to get away from "those guys".
 
brian];1908470 said:
Today, aviation and the airlines are a matter of life. My entire career has been jumping from one airline seat to another. Some basics in high school (even as an elective) on the airspace system and how airplanes actually work is today a "life skill". Period.

To you, it's a life skill. To the majority of others, it's a once a year occurrence, at best. Most people don't travel for work, and even less for personal travel. While it may seem common and a "life skill" to you, it really isn't. I generally travel commercially 1-2 weeks per month, and never had any coursework on the subject. I sure didn't need it prior to my current job.

[QUOTE='brian]You would not believe the number of folks that have zero idea on how "the system" works. [/QUOTE]

People will throw fits regardless of whether they know how "the system" works. Some people have over-inflated self-worth and, when combined with impatience, results in throwing tantrums when their schedule is delayed.

I don't feel that "aviation" should be taught any more than "construction" or "public transportation". If they want to use aviation as a mechanism to explain physics, economics, or even human behavior, I'm all for it. Making it a subject of its own is the job of vocational or higher-learning institutions.
 
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I took a high school "shop class" on aviation in the early 90's. One of the shop teachers was a pilot. It was one of the best classes I ever had. Basically covered ground school, plus we had to design, build our own airfoil and and test in a wind tunnel. Then we went to simulators. Very similar setup to physics and chemistry classes, classroom lecture and a lab, but way cooler.

I would agree that aviation is something that should be introduced to grade school students in some way as it can be a career option for those that are college bound or head in the direction of skilled trade. There are other industries that fit this model and this is the type of teaching that I believe should be more embraced to improve our public schools.
 
Funny we were just talking about things we learned in high school last weekend at the pub and someone showed me this:
Things I Never Learned In High School
  • How to do taxes
  • What taxes are
  • How to vote
  • What political parties are
  • How to write a resume/cover letter/anything related to getting a job
  • How to write a check/balance a check book
  • Anything to do with banking
  • How to do loans for college
  • How to jump start a car or other basic emergency things
  • How to buy a car or house
but I’m so glad I know the f***ing pythagorean theorem!

Granted, I remember learning how todo half of those in college. But the other half would have been useful to learn as well!
Yes it does.

I will say I've used the Pythagorean Theorem before when calculating angles/lengths for small home projects. Now in my opinion, the other subjects in there really should be a requirement for high school grads. Call it "Personal Finance" and force them to work with a mock 401K, credit card interest, loan applications, auto/home purchases, insurance, tax implications, etc.
 
Someone didn't pay attention. I learned all of those things in high school, between civics, English, accounting, and driver training classes.

I did a good number of them as well, but I suspect like me you went to high school in the seventies or earlier. Believe me, the curriculum has been reduced to absurdity. If it's not on the standardized test for the mass of students or prep for the AP exam for the "gifted" it by and large is no longer in the curriculum.
 
In the 80s, we had no civics classes and certainly nothing on personal finance.
 
In the 80s, we had no civics classes and certainly nothing on personal finance.


Interesting. We had those.

Civics was required but often taught from somewhat revisionist history texts and none of the funding issues were ever mentioned, just the idealistic view of voting and how government and politicians always "work for the People". Quite silly.

Personal Finance was taught inside of an elective Econ class. Most of Econ 101 in a college level course was dumbed down to a very basic level and then a couple of weeks of fake personal budgeting was done.

I got a low letter grade on my budget and the teacher claimed it was "unrealistically low for items like food and shelter", which were taken directly from local pricing sources, and I argued the grade up a notch but was still annoyed by him.

After high school and a semester in Music Ed studies at a University I dropped out to go work and live at a homeless shelter in Chicago. A very good experience overall, and certainly taught me that the fiscal problems most folk whine about simply aren't.

After returning home from there, proceeded to live on that *identical* budget, except that I held down three jobs instead of one, to fund my newfound aviation habit and multiple semesters at a local commuter college aviation program. Dropped out of that when I did the math and realized I would make more money for the next twenty years in even my entry level tech job, and had no intention of staying at entry level. In fact, had just received a promotion to being a Field Engineer for one of the companies and started traveling long before I could rent a car without the company paying extra insurance money to allow it. Was doing major upgrades for GTE/FAA contract a year later and was the lead product support engineer a year after that for a new product.

Thought a few times about sending that jackass a copy of my balance sheet back then, and seeing if he thought it was still "unrealistic". Entitled prick from the 'burbs teaching Econ without a clue what real jobs paid at the time.

Probably got back even better by being debt free by my early 40s. I'm sure he wasn't. I guarantee he wasn't as qualified to teach personal finance as I am now.

By the way, I can save anyone interested a lot of time of sitting in class on this topic:

- Keep expenses below income.
- Pay off, or better yet, don't acquire debt. Buy assets not liabilities.
- Save the rest.
- Work your butt off until you don't have to work. Work anyway. Do fun things like buying airplanes. Follow the second rule when doing so.
- Learn how to build a spreadsheet or a paper balance sheet/P&L. Use it.
- Flip bird to high school Econ teacher.

Haha.

As far as Civics teacher goes...

- Figure out who's paying your politicians.
- Stay out of their way if you can't pay that much.
- Know that all politicians want to grow their business just like any other business. Don't believe any of the BS about "smaller government" or "lower taxes".
- Call them on their BS so they get replaced regularly with less savvy politicians who haven't figured out how to hide it.
- Flip bird to high school Civics teacher.

Saw a great quote the other day that went something like this:

"The TV show 'Are you smarter than a Fifth Grader' isn't so much a measure of how dumb adults are, as a measure of how much useless crap we teach Fifth Graders that everyone forgets as soon as they're out of fifth grade."

I'm pretty sure my most useful high school life-skill class ended up being Typing. Maybe followed by the AP English class taught by a dope-head, mostly as an exercise in knowing what pot-heads believe about the world, and watching an aging one trying to pay his bills by teaching English classes, and what his twenty year old rust-bucket car in the parking lot looked like... mostly as a warning to not follow in his footsteps.

But he did so love babbling, non-stop, year after year about "Catcher in the Rye" to a new batch of bright eyed kids... and he knew what an Oxford comma was.

They both have me beat in that they're retired on a pension, paid from a pension fund that's bankrupt on paper. Gotta admit, that one is pretty impressive. See rules number one and two in the Civic lesson. Never get in the NEA's way. Way more powerful than NRA. ;)

Pretty big delta between a high school education and a real-world one. In the real world, formerly fake budgets are real and can work, civics and politicians are corrupt, and Catcher in the Rye isn't something you'd spend more than two evenings reading. You certainly wouldn't get a lower score for hitting your budget, you'd be at an advantage knowing to stay far away from politicians and their backers, and you wouldn't be journaling for a month about a work of fiction. :)
 
Does the Air Force Jr. ROTC program still exist?

A lot of the material regarding aviation, aviation history, and so forth was covered in those classes. I was in the program and thought it good, though I imagined some potential students were turned off by having to wear a uniform once a week and the haircut requirements. Two classes a week was Leadership, and I suspect that also drove some potential students away. We learned charts, airspace, the use of a plotter and E-6B, along with a lot of other stuff.

Yes. Both of my kids are in it. My daughter is the highest ranking cadet in the corp (Lt maj/corp commander). I believe the AF will only provide instructors and supplies if the program maintains an enrollment of 100 students per year. At our school it can be used as a PE substitute.
 
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