AOPA "reimagined" Cessna 150/152

I can accept that. But the student training like that has to understand that it is going to take longer to get a certificate and will necessarily cost more.

The cost can be minimized outside that of the aircraft cost, but since they are expecting to pay that going forward, the economy of training in a differently equipped ship is a false one where the metal meets the meat so to speak. Competence under duress has a value that you just can't put a dollar figure on. Most of learning the radios can be done outside the plane. IIRC the course Ron Levy recommends is $100. So yeah, it costs a little more money and a lot more directed and supervised effort at the gain of a whole lot of competency and not to be under rated, confidence. After you take a check ride on that equipment, you will be confident in its use as well as competent.

The bolded part is the key.
 
I can see both sides, I might buy a cheap 150, but I'd never buy a 90K one. On the other hand look at the LSA market all the stripped 50K planes have been market failures. Market suggests people would rather not fly, then fly without onboard TV.
 
Understand the difference in economics. You are operating a plane to save money, an FBO is operating a plane to make money.

No I bought the 150 to learn how to fly and as stated earlier it has a lower operational cost than a 172. The end result is the same in that I get my PPL and at the same time save $$$ doing it in a 150.
 
No I bought the 150 to learn how to fly and as stated earlier it has a lower operational cost than a 172. The end result is the same in that I get my PPL and at the same time save $$$ doing it in a 150.

Exactly, same difference. You are on the consumer end of the equation, they are on the supplier end.
 
You can get a NEW Pipistrel or Flight Design MC trainer for $75k with twice the climb rate of a Cessna 172. And a 4gph mogas burn too.

Yes.

But composite repairs can be extremely difficult and time consuming, and owners of those planes have experienced long downtimes while repairs were made and parts obtained from overseas. Composite repairs can also require authorization from the factory adding additional complications and delay.

Virtually any mechanic can work on a 150, and airframe repairs are pretty straightforward.

None of this might matter to an individual owner but for a flight school delays like this can virtually bankrupt them. And training planes are prone to getting damaged.

For some use cases, old-school is simply better.
 
There has to be some other motive behind this because no person in their right mind would inflate a 152 to those prices and call it economical.

The motive is simple: it's some blockhead, who went to forums and yakked how Cessna would be much better off re-starting production of 152 instead of building 162, trying to prove himself right in the hindsight. Remember that original 162 was selling pretty well for $115k with G300 before Textron booted Jack Pelton out and hiked the price to $145k, so a thousand of buyers cancelled their deposits. The $90k price is selected to look competitive with 162.
 
But composite repairs can be extremely difficult and time consuming (. . .)
FD MC is all-metal just to placate people who buy into the ease-of-repair thinking. It's an airplane radically different from FD CT line. That said, CT was winning enough flight school business that FD now offer so-called "CT Club" version for that market.

None of this might matter to an individual owner but for a flight school delays like this can virtually bankrupt them. And training planes are prone to getting damaged.
Meanwhile New Mexico Sport Aviation bought another plastic-fantastic Remos GX, because the first one was doing quite well and graduated dozens of PPs and SPs over the last 3 years.
 
I bought a nice C150H for 16.5k nothing wrong with it and I am the third owner of a very nice plane. It had 2300TT 800SMO and everything worked just fine. I had an A&P throw on some new tires and brakes but that was all it needed...

That's what I said in post #4, there are lots of decent ones out there and the mission they described for this "re-imagined" 150 doesn't require it to be stripped down to the last bolt and sure as heck doesn't require a fifteen thousand dollar glass panel. I can certainly understand why they painted it yellow though because after sinking that much money into the thing they must have thought "Well, people pay some pretty stupid money for Cubs and they're yellow..." :rolleyes:
 
Meanwhile New Mexico Sport Aviation bought another plastic-fantastic Remos GX, because the first one was doing quite well and graduated dozens of PPs and SPs over the last 3 years.

Don't get me wrong...

I like composite. My last plane was - a Cirrus. My current plane is - a Sky Arrow.

Just wanted to point out it's not perfect.

The simplicity of the 150 is another plus. 150 won't start? Simple troubleshooting to get it going again.

As an anecdote, a CTLSi recently would not start on a trip to Alaska. In the midst of troubleshooting, someone pointed out the starter switch has 10 (!) wires coming out of it. I think a few of those 10 were chafing and shorted. They got it sorted out but it took quite some time to do so.

These new technologically advanced marvels are, in fact, marvels. And certainly the future. But I think it's wrong to dis the tried and true, some of which are soldiering on after a half century or more.

But I will certainly stipulate that the new breed of composite planes can and have served well in training environments. But there are enough cautionary tales of grounded planes to give one pause as well.
 
The motive is simple: it's some blockhead, who went to forums and yakked how Cessna would be much better off re-starting production of 152 instead of building 162, trying to prove himself right in the hindsight. Remember that original 162 was selling pretty well for $115k with G300 before Textron booted Jack Pelton out and hiked the price to $145k, so a thousand of buyers cancelled their deposits. The $90k price is selected to look competitive with 162.

Why ... Is that person a blockhead? The reality is; it is probably true. If the faa would change sport to 1670 gross weight does anyone really think the 152 wouldn't take off again? No I don't want to own a 152, but let's first stipulate the right now people with money who want to fly have limited options in the expensive coastal area. You could probably rented a "reimagined" 152 in places like the sf Bay Area, NYC, LA, etc... And get a younger generation to start flying. There's something about flying a 40 year old plane that you don't want be reminded that you're flying a 40 year old plane. And people will pay more to be in a plane that doesn't look or feel like it's 40 years old.
 
It will probably cost close to the advertised price to buy a flyable C-150, add a reman engine, add a glass panel, refurbish the interior and paint (including corrosion proofing the aluminum), adding all new wingtips, elevator, etc., (the plastic parts), adding strobes, modern engine instruments, etc. and turn around and make 10% 0r 12% for your efforts.

We will have to probably spend $4 or $5 thousand just to add ADS-B to ours.

We own a C-150, our second plane. Our first was a C-172. Neither of these is really a cross country machine, if that is what a person is looking for. But, I can tell you from personal experience that the 200 T hangars at our airport have quite a few cross country machines in them that spend 99% of the time sitting. A C-182 that I know of for sure flew 25 hours last year. Based on conversations with my mechanic, that is not uncommon. Burning 12-15 gallons an hour or more of $6 fuel soon starts wearing on an owner, or so it seems. The 150 we have now, I can fly an hour for about $30 for fuel. The 172 was about $54. A 182 is probably about $72 or more. I think when people start having to write checks, that they decide maybe they need to mow the yard or do something else rather than go flying. Especially if most of the flying is for proficiency/fun, as for most owners it is.

Contrary to a lot of the posters here, I don't think AOPA's idea is such a bad one. Better to do something, even if it is wrong, than do nothing and sit by and wring your hands bemoaning how GA is going down the tubes.
 
A 150 is cheaper per hour in fuel but guess what, the 150 horse cardinal (same engine as 150 horse 172) burns pretty much 9 gallons the first hour with a 30 minute climb out of the heat and 6-7 every hour after. It will fly burning less than 6 if you want. It's much more flexible, holds more fuel. The insurance, hangar rent, transponder checks and other fixed yearly costs are pretty much the same.

The the 150 horse 172/177 and cessna 150/152 can burn at least 91 Mogas, some as low as 87 mogas.


You may save a little gas owning a 150 outright but the reimagined 150/152 will turn away many flying clubs and students due to weight restrictions. We haven't even mentioned high airport elevation operations.


I'd be curious to see what the usefull load is on a $90k reimagined 150/152, if it's loaded with decent equipment ($50k worth), it's gotta be poor.
 
I'd be curious to see what the usefull load is on a $90k reimagined 150/152, if it's loaded with decent equipment ($50k worth), it's gotta be poor.

The new stuff is so much lighter than the old stuff, the only thing is, most of these 150's didn't have much stuff to start with. :D
 
Please note, this was leaving airport with 1360 elevation about 80-85 oat.

Also, the time to 5500 probably doesn't include ground run and taxi, but that fuel used is.

 
Yeah I just figured buying 150 at a good price, where I could resell it after getting my PPL against just paying the $165 they charge down here. I save about $75 an hour this way x let's say 40hrs +/- for my PPL = a savings of 3k.
 
Yeah I just figured buying 150 at a good price, where I could resell it after getting my PPL against just paying the $165 they charge down here. I save about $75 an hour this way x let's say 40hrs +/- for my PPL = a savings of 3k.

Exactly, a flight school needs it to fly minimum of 500hrs a year, sometimes more at really busy schools. What kills a business like this is not the maintenance costs, it's the loss of revenue on down time.
 
Yeah I just figured buying 150 at a good price, where I could resell it after getting my PPL against just paying the $165 they charge down here. I save about $75 an hour this way x let's say 40hrs +/- for my PPL = a savings of 3k.

I soloed in rented 172P, finished in family owned 150B, I get that. Re-imagined $90k 150 I don't.

A family buying a reimagined 150? Nope.

A flying club buying a reimagined 150? Nope.
 
If they were doing all acrobats then *maybe* it makes more sense to me.
 
Yup and since I am not a flying school the 150 is either getting leased or sold when I get my PPL. I will then buy something really nice with a glass dash and lots of bells and whistles. I tell you Santa will be jealous
 
Of course the new CTLSi is an incredible product. I have 150 hours on mine. Zero issues...others who own them don't look back.

There is a reason the Flight Design CTLS is the best selling LSA on the market, and soon the Flight Design folks are building what will undercut new Cessna 172 Skyhawks by $200k. Its called the Flight Design C4. Just listed as one of the top five aircrafts that will change aviation according to Flying Magazine last week.

Btw, of the top five Flying Magazine listed as aircraft that are changing the entire paradigm of GA? Icon A5 (carbon fiber), Flight Design C4 (carbon fiber), Pilatus PC24 (carbon fiber), Pipistrel Panthera (carbon fiber), Aerion AS2 supersonic business jet (carbon fiber). Also, the new HondaJet is all carbon fiber.

http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/rising-stars-5-planes-will-change-aviation
 
Plastic planes are the present and future. People are going to have to learn how to fix them. Good news is the sailplane guys have been putting them back together from little pieces for fifty years with lots of success.
 
Hi Brian. No argument that the C-177 is much nicer than a C-150. All I was saying is that maybe AOPA's idea will work. Worth trying. By the way, I can get our C-150 down to about 4-4.5 gph in cruise.
 
It will probably cost close to the advertised price to buy a flyable C-150, add a reman engine, add a glass panel, refurbish the interior and paint (including corrosion proofing the aluminum), adding all new wingtips, elevator, etc., (the plastic parts), adding strobes, modern engine instruments, etc. and turn around and make 10% 0r 12% for your efforts...

Absolutely, yes it will and I'm not questioning the numbers. I'm just asking - why? Like I said earlier, painting the thing yellow almost seems like an attempt to mimic the Cub but the Cub has that uber-nostalgia aspect that I don't think the C150 is going to be able cash in on. Don't get me wrong, I think the 150 is a great little airplane for what it is and I think what they're showing there looks fantastic but really - who is this targeted for?

It's not anyone I know :dunno:
 
Absolutely, yes it will and I'm not questioning the numbers. I'm just asking - why? Like I said earlier, painting the thing yellow almost seems like an attempt to mimic the Cub but the Cub has that uber-nostalgia aspect that I don't think the C150 is going to be able cash in on. Don't get me wrong, I think the 150 is a great little airplane for what it is and I think what they're showing there looks fantastic but really - who is this targeted for?

It's not anyone I know :dunno:
All the guys nostalgic for cubs are dying off and the people nostalgic for C-150s are entering their peak earning years.:lol:
 
I would think the target audience would be flight schools as opposed to individuals. If flight schools can buy new 172's and rent them for $140-175 per hour, it makes sense that they can buy these for $100K and rent them for $80-90 per hour, doesn't it?:dunno: People that aren't familiar with general aviation would likely be happier getting into a shiny like new 150 vs a ratty 172. All the old grizzled veteran aviators on this board know that shiny doesn't make them any better, but think about your co-worker going out for an intro flight and getting in a clapped out 172 vs a new looking 152 or 172, which one will they be more comfortable flying? :confused:

Absolutely, yes it will and I'm not questioning the numbers. I'm just asking - why? Like I said earlier, painting the thing yellow almost seems like an attempt to mimic the Cub but the Cub has that uber-nostalgia aspect that I don't think the C150 is going to be able cash in on. Don't get me wrong, I think the 150 is a great little airplane for what it is and I think what they're showing there looks fantastic but really - who is this targeted for?

It's not anyone I know :dunno:
 
Could be, remains to be seen I guess but I don't see it as a venture I'd be game to invest in.

Of course I've been wrong before....
 
Yup and since I am not a flying school the 150 is either getting leased or sold when I get my PPL. I will then buy something really nice with a glass dash and lots of bells and whistles. I tell you Santa will be jealous

Curious, if you intended to buy something that would make Santa jealous as soon as you got your PPL, why didn't you just buy that first?
 
With the 1500 hour ATP requirement, the least expensive quick way to build hours would be to buy a small airplane with minimal instruments and do hood time with another pilot (who is PIC also). Nothing better than a 152 for that.
 
A nice looking airplane (re-imagined C150) - much more attractive than the junker that I did my initial trial flight in. I did go ahead with flight training, of course, with a different school which had a much nicer plane.

What's this 'cub' everyone's talking about? :)
 
You have to learn how to use the radios and glass, plus it is the use because that's what customers want. People here poo poo it, but on the rental lines glass gets rented.

I dont believe that to be true at all. The club I belong to has something like 1300 members and 50+ aircraft. There are a ton of 172s, many of which fly 100hrs a month. Looking at the schedule online, the glass versions are always available. The reason? They are more expensive, and most members aren't willing to pay the extra just for a fancy panel when the normal gauges work fine.
 
I think you guys are being a little hard on AOPA. They're trying to fix a universal problem here.

Sure you can buy cheaper airplanes that don't look as nice or operate as reliably, but there will always be airplanes for less that will operate just as well if not better.

They're trying to get new people into relatively new airplanes because some of the stuff out there for rent is just pure junk. And let's not forget how few people these days know anything at all about how to purchase an airplane. Most of us do because most of us already know how to fly.

There's a huge knowledge gap in there that AOPA and Aviat are aiming for. What would Pristine Airplanes charge for this effort ... about the same I bet. Just because some of us would be savvy enough to make this all work for less money doesn't make it a bad deal for someone who is new to flying.

A four-person partnership could toss in $7500 each and get a pretty nice machine that they could fly the pants off for their private and commercial certificates.

The industry's in trouble folks. I for one won't take a whack at AOPA for trying to fix the problem.
 
Curious, if you intended to buy something that would make Santa jealous as soon as you got your PPL, why didn't you just buy that first?

When I first decided to get into aviation I started looking into buying a twin. I had the mindset that 2 engines must be safer than 1 so that's what I will buy. The old timer that was guiding me sat me down and explained that you don't start out flying twins with glass cockpits. He recommended anything from a 150 to a 182 som could learn to "fly" first so I found a good deal(the 150) and pulled the trigger. I now understand why I was advised against buying a Seneca as my first plane and as my trainer.

Is that 310 your first plane or the plane you used to get started?
 
I think you guys are being a little hard on AOPA. They're trying to fix a universal problem here...

Well this is the official "Hard on AOPA" site so there's no big surprise there.
 
When I first decided to get into aviation I started looking into buying a twin. I had the mindset that 2 engines must be safer than 1 so that's what I will buy. The old timer that was guiding me sat me down and explained that you don't start out flying twins with glass cockpits. He recommended anything from a 150 to a 182 som could learn to "fly" first so I found a good deal(the 150) and pulled the trigger. I now understand why I was advised against buying a Seneca as my first plane and as my trainer.

Is that 310 your first plane or the plane you used to get started?

No, my first was a turboed Travelair (twin) I got with 60hrsTT. Neither GPS nor Glass was available at the time.
 
Nice, so I take it you started out learning in a single with fixed gear like me.
 
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