AOPA can sell health insurance?

[MooneyDriver78]

Latest executive order, associations can provide their own health insurance. Since pilots are relatively healthy, maybe we'll get super low rates? Seems an easy extension of their aircraft insurance business.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

How many AOPA members are 1) not on Medicare; 2) not covered by their employer; and 3) interested enough in what AOPA could offer (over, say, an industry trade group), that it would be a critical mass to be worthwhile?

Edit - mods, should move to Hangar Talk... assuming this can stay apolitical for any length of time...

 

[MooneyDriver78]

They claim to have 100,000+, don't know the breakdown, I think AOPA could get lower rates because Pilots should be healthy.

 

[Brad Z]

So about 10 younger pilots subsidizing the rates of 299,990 older pilots, with their associated age related medical issues?

 

[Clark1961]

Since health insurance is regulated on a state level it'd be tough for AOPA to contract with an agency to offer health insurance brokerage to their membership.

 

[Ravioli]

^^^ hello... isn't breaking the state barrier one of the major initiatives of this reform?

 

[Clark1961]

^^^ hello... isn't breaking the state barrier one of the major initiatives of this reform?

I'm sure the states are going to just roll over and let the feds steamroll them on this one. Yes, you are right.

 

[Ravioli]

I'm willing to listen, but allowing insurance companies to operate across state lines was a very common claim for reforming the system.

Steamrolling is what some may call a federally mandated list of required health care services.

Or are you saying AOPA would have a burden to offer a potential plan in all states due to potential regulatory challenges? That could prove true without a critical mass of interested members in each jurisdiction.

 

[Clark1961]

I'm willing to listen, but allowing insurance companies to operate across state lines was a very common claim for reforming the system.

Steamrolling is what some may call a federally mandated list of required health care services.

Or are you saying AOPA would have a burden to offer a potential plan in all states due to potential regulatory challenges? That could prove true without a critical mass of interested members in each jurisdiction.

If you are going to baselessly prevaricate on what I might or might not be saying with respect to what some broker (note that AOPA has nothing to do with actual insurance) may be required to offer then I have no desire to discuss things. You may claim to be "willing to listen" but that claim is hollow and false.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Since health insurance is regulated on a state level it'd be tough for AOPA to contract with an agency to offer health insurance brokerage to their membership.

Actually that is part of the order, cross state lines is allowed, also the plans can be exclude normal ACA requirements, like paying for birth control, etc

 

[Clark1961]

Actually that is part of the order, cross state lines is allowed, also the plans can be exclude normal ACA requirements, like paying for birth control, etc

Crossing state lines and state regulation are two separate things. I'm sure you realize that and will amend your post to acknowledge the separate issues.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

So about 10 younger pilots subsidizing the rates of 299,990 older pilots, with their associated age related medical issues?

Wow, so 99.99% of the pilots have medical issues....

 

[Ravioli]

I had to look up "prevaricate." Good word.

pre·var·i·cate
prəˈverəˌkāt/
verb

1. speak or act in an evasive way.
   "he seemed to prevaricate when journalists asked pointed questions"
   synonyms: be evasive, beat around the bush, hedge, fence, shilly-shally, dodge (the issue), sidestep (the issue), equivocate, waffle;

Unfortunately my basis was quite clearly stated. Buying insurance across state lines was a campaign plank for some guy... who, like it or not, won.

The interesting thing now is whether there are potential state's rights issues.

Perhaps you'd like to elucidate your stance. <-- See that, I knowz me some wordz 2

 

[Skyrys62]

shilly-shally lol

I'm dropping that one in the next few work meetings just to see their faces.

 

[Clark1961]

I had to look up "prevaricate." Good word.

pre·var·i·cate
prəˈverəˌkāt/
verb

1. speak or act in an evasive way.
   "he seemed to prevaricate when journalists asked pointed questions"
   synonyms: be evasive, beat around the bush, hedge, fence, shilly-shally, dodge (the issue), sidestep (the issue), equivocate, waffle;

Unfortunately my basis was quite clearly stated. Buying insurance across state lines was a campaign plank for some guy... who, like it or not, won.

The interesting thing now is whether there are potential state's rights issues.

Perhaps you'd like to elucidate your stance. <-- See that, I knowz me some wordz 2

You did prevaricate about my stance. As long as you deny that we have no grounds for discussion.

 

[paflyer]

How many AOPA members are 1) not on Medicare; 2) not covered by their employer; and 3) interested enough in what AOPA could offer (over, say, an industry trade group), that it would be a critical mass to be worthwhile?

Edit - mods, should move to Hangar Talk... assuming this can stay apolitical for any length of time...

Hmmm. I’d like to see an org like IEEE offer a hospitization/catastrophic plan for a few thousand a year to its members, many of whom are independent contractors like myself. Like the old days before 2009. Screw the crap shove-it-up-your-tailpipe-and-like-it ACA plans that cost a thousand a month with $7000 personal deductibles.

 

[Ravioli]

You did prevaricate about my stance. As long as you deny that we have no grounds for discussion.

I don't understand your stance and therefore cannot possibly evade it.

What is it about allowing associations to market insurance products across state lines that is potentially problematic? That's the root question here. Not my semantic foolishness.

 

[paflyer]

I don't understand your stance and therefore cannot possibly evade it.

What is it about allowing associations to market insurance products across state lines that is potentially problematic? That's the root question here. Not my semantic foolishness.

Clark’s scouring his Roget’s to come up with a snappy retort using buck-three eighty words.

 

[Brad Z]

Wow, so 99.99% of the pilots have medical issues....

No, 100% of pilots have medical expenses at some point. Older pilots, on average, have more expenses.

 

[Clark1961]

I don't understand your stance and therefore cannot possibly evade it.

What is it about allowing associations to market insurance products across state lines that is potentially problematic? That's the root question here. Not my semantic foolishness.

But your semantic foolishness prevents rational discussion.

 

[TheGolfPilot]

I’m in my 20’s, self employed, have never submitted a health insurance claim, and my PPO plan in California with a $6800 deductible, costs me $460 a month. ANY competition would surely lower my rate.... real sour topic for me. I know people who didn’t have health insurance, got a full cancer treatment for free, then won a 60k mustang on the price is right... if it wasn’t for required coverage they still wouldn’t have insurance...

 

[drjcustis]

I’m in my 20’s, self employed, have never submitted a health insurance claim, and my PPO plan in California with a $6800 deductible, costs me $460 a month. ANY competition would surely lower my rate.... real sour topic for me. I know people who didn’t have health insurance, got a full cancer treatment for free, then won a 60k mustang on the price is right... if it wasn’t for required coverage they still wouldn’t have insurance...

I don’t usually get involved in these discussions, but...

I just saw a woman last night who is in her 20s, self employed and never had any health issues who chose not to get insurance. I diagnosed her with a major medical issue that will cost her 100s of thousands of dollars. She will lose her house, her car, her future. The Medical issue will effect her for months; the financial issues will effect her for years. Your $460/month and $6,800 deductible insures you get good and appropriate medical care and avoid the devastating financial loss.


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[paflyer]

I don’t usually get involved in these discussions, but...

I just saw a woman last night who is in her 20s, self employed and never had any health issues who chose not to get insurance. I diagnosed her with a major medical issue that will cost her 100s of thousands of dollars. She will lose her house, her car, her future. The Medical issue will effect her for months; the financial issues will effect her for years. Your $460/month and $6,800 deductible insures you get good and appropriate medical care and avoid the devastating financial loss.


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Which begs the question, why is treatment costing hundreds of thousands of dollars?

 

[tspear]

I’m in my 20’s, self employed, have never submitted a health insurance claim, and my PPO plan in California with a $6800 deductible, costs me $460 a month. ANY competition would surely lower my rate.... real sour topic for me. I know people who didn’t have health insurance, got a full cancer treatment for free, then won a 60k mustang on the price is right... if it wasn’t for required coverage they still wouldn’t have insurance...

That is because the ACA enshrined the idea of f***** future generations. There were two real goals of the ACA, one reduce the number of uninsured, and two shift the cost burden from the government. The belief in the first goal is this would reduce long term costs by having more people get preventive care; so far the evidence is ambivalent at best. The second goal was accomplished by capping premiums for the primary users of healthcare to three times the costs of the headiest members of society. The end effect was to screw the youth.

Tim

 

[tspear]

Which begs the question, why is treatment costing hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Because the USA pays for the vast majority of medical research in the world, compounded by delivery systems which has disincentives for efficiency in the best interests of society. Instead it incentivizes more consumption and CYA.

Tim

 

[tspear]

Multi-state contracts is a BS political answer that has been pushed alternatively by both parties for 30 years.
There is no current regulation which prevents selling across state lines, in fact a few states expressly allow it.
No one does it. The contracts, the networks.... these are the major items which prevent it. Regulatory has proven to be a red herring on multi-state insurance issues for healthcare.

Tim

 

[paflyer]

Because the USA pays for the vast majority of medical research in the world, compounded by delivery systems which has disincentives for efficiency in the best interests of society. Instead it incentivizes more consumption and CYA.

Tim

Premium payers, not the USA. We should get investment tax credits or something in return. Plus Medicare destroyed the free market and added tons of "administrators" and paper pushers/support staff that does nothing except feed the beast.

 

[paflyer]

Multi-state contracts is a BS political answer that has been pushed alternatively by both parties for 30 years.
There is no current regulation which prevents selling across state lines, in fact a few states expressly allow it.
No one does it. The contracts, the networks.... these are the major items which prevent it. Regulatory has proven to be a red herring on multi-state insurance issues for healthcare.

Tim

Insurers have to deal with 51 different regulators, all with different rules..

 

[tspear]

Insurers have to deal with 51 different regulators, all with different rules..

The regulators primarily affect healthcare delivery, and what is to be covered by insurance. As such, they are a minimal barrier to an insurance company going into a new market.
There have been multiple studies about it; end result is the insurance regulations are not a principle cause in why there is little to no competition and limited cross border state selling. Where it makes sense, the insurance companies sell products which cross borders all the time; e.g. CareFirst in the Washington DC area.

Tim

 

[tspear]

Premium payers, not the USA. We should get investment tax credits or something in return. Plus Medicare destroyed the free market and added tons of "administrators" and paper pushers/support staff that does nothing except feed the beast.

I was being more general; the USA healthcare industry supports almost all research money spent on medical advancement. And yes, the premium payers pay a higher portion than the tax payers....

Tim

 

[Marky_24]

I don’t usually get involved in these discussions, but...

I just saw a woman last night who is in her 20s, self employed and never had any health issues who chose not to get insurance. I diagnosed her with a major medical issue that will cost her 100s of thousands of dollars. She will lose her house, her car, her future. The Medical issue will effect her for months; the financial issues will effect her for years. Your $460/month and $6,800 deductible insures you get good and appropriate medical care and avoid the devastating financial loss.


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Then make it legal for me to buy a catastrophic only insurance plan. Why should I be FORCED to pay for services I do not want and do not use?

 

[tspear]

Then make it legal for me to buy a catastrophic only insurance plan. Why should I be FORCED to pay for services I do not want and do not use?

Because, you are young and healthy. Therefore, we need to jack your rates to have you subsidize the old and unhealthy.

Tim

 

[luvflyin]

^^^ hello... isn't breaking the state barrier one of the major initiatives of this reform?

Breaking the state barrier solves a lot of problems. Along with creating 'pools' that allow a 'de facto' employer plan, a lot of the problems of the present system are solved. Instead of Acme plumbing, Joes plumbing, etc being small businesses that can't afford to have a company plan, you have Plumbers of America having a group plan and the employees get a group plan instead of having to get individual plans through the 'market place.' Of course pulling the pin and throwing a handgrenade into the whole system later that evening kinda negates some of those advantages

 

[tspear]

Breaking the state barrier solves a lot of problems. Along with creating 'pools' that allow a 'de facto' employer plan, a lot of the problems of the present system are solved. Instead of Acme plumbing, Joes plumbing, etc being small businesses that can't afford to have a company plan, you have Plumbers of America having a group plan and the employees get a group plan instead of having to get individual plans through the 'market place.' Of course pulling the pin and throwing a handgrenade into the whole system later that evening kinda negates some of those advantages

Myth. Plumbers of America can already negotiate with any of the national networks to get such a plan. You can either set the rates nationally or by state or by market.
Cross state selling has been available for a long time, there is nothing in the regulations which prevent it. In fact a few states explicitly allow it.
The problem as I stated previously is the business side.

Tim

 

[luvflyin]

Myth. Plumbers of America can already negotiate with any of the national networks to get such a plan. You can either set the rates nationally or by state or by market.
Cross state selling has been available for a long time, there is nothing in the regulations which prevent it. In fact a few states explicitly allow it.
The problem as I stated previously is the business side.

Tim

Hmm. Then what was new? What was it that got signed

 

[tspear]

Hmm. Then what was new? What was it that got signed

An Executive Order which is really just a PR piece.

Tim

 

[weilke]

Latest executive order, associations can provide their own health insurance. Since pilots are relatively healthy, maybe we'll get super low rates? Seems an easy extension of their aircraft insurance business.

They might. Offering a group plan to pilots with a medical would be exactly the type of cherry-picking that O-care was trying to limit. For those eligible, it could be a good deal.

You would still be stuck with one of the large insurers (United, Cigna, BCBS) to administer the program as a health insurance without a network is a product that is of very limited use to the consumer. In days past there used to be independent PPO networks that could be used by third party administrators. Over the years United bought a number of them out to eliminate the competition.

Now, I am not sure that an executive order can invalidate 50 states insurance regulations in the first place. There may not be any substance to this effort.