Anyone still use VORs?

onezuludelta

onezuludelta

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OneZuluDelta
Or is it all GPS, all the time? I'm talking specifically VFR flights here. Ever since I was a wee lad and played with MS Flight Sim, then started planning imaginary flights on Skyvector while bored at various jobs, I learned and used VORs, because a straight magenta line doesn't make for very fun video gaming or daydreaming.

Now that I'm nearing checkride time for my PPL, I'm wondering: nowadays does anyone give a second thought to VORs once they pass their checkride? Does everyone just use GPS all the time?

I've been busy practicing flight planning, making flight plans to potential post-checkride destinations, and I just can't bring myself to go Direct To.

So, I was curious what certificated VFR pilots in 2015 (almost 2016!) are doing. What do you guys and gals use in your every-day cross-country VFR flight planning?

Alternate, more dramatic thread titles:
ARE VORs DEAD?
This pilot used Direct To, AND YOU'LL NEVER GUESS WHAT HAPPENED NEXT.
DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN, USES NDBs.
 
Still teach VORs. That's usually what's in most older training planes (C172, C152 etc).
 
Hi OneZuluDelta.

I still use VOR's all the time. I use GPS (portable) but use VOR's to cross-check my position to generally keep up with where I am on a sectional (and yes, I still carry a paper sectional with me). I also use VOR's for instrument approaches, and the VOR head also picks up the localizer signal and glide slope for ILS approaches.

But then again, I am old and have had a lot of equipment malfunction/break over the years, both in airplanes and other things, and like to have redundant equipment that doesn't depend on the same input source. I may be the only one left :).

Good luck on the checkride!
 
(jumping up and down, wildly waving hands)

me! I don't have an installed GPS, only a portable, so VOR, ADF, and NDB are my friends. Besides, I can listen to the ball games on the ADF.
 
Oh, Dude, you gonna start a fight! I'm instrument rated, so usually IFR X-ctry; real real, real rare for me to use a VOR when VFR.

In the Washington DC ADIZ, I have used VOR/DME to backup the GPS, when squeezing under the narrow corridor between BWI and DCA/ADW . . .but the one time the GPS failed in there, I gave the controller a heads-up on the situation; he offered vectors, and I accepted.

Even departing the FRZ VFR, I usually don't tune the VOR - I know the most direct heading out, and with a comm or xpdr failure, they want to see you departing by the most direct route.

Sometimes I use the VOR if I do travel VFR, but usually just messing around with it, sort of keeping my hand in. But GPS is almost always primary.
 
The FAA must think so, because they have established a Minimum Operating Network of VORs that will remain after the rest have been decommissioned. With that network in place, anyone flying at or above 5000' agl will have a VOR within 100 miles. Service volume will increase to 70NM (IIRC). Search for MON.

Until eLoran comes to life and is funded, VOR is the only backup if the GPS system goes inop for any reason.

Bob Gardner
 
Pretty much direct on the GPS. However I do back it up with VORs when able and constantly monitor my position. Your GPS WILL crap out eventually so you have to always be aware of you're located.
 
When a buddy of mine and I are out flying the 152 cross country, we specifically put FF away and use our eyes, a sectional, VOR's, pilotage, and dead reckoning to get to our destination. It's a lot more fun that way.

I also use them for VOR checks.
 
Thanks for the info, Bob. I had heard about the decommissionings but I didn't know if it spelled the end of all VORs eventually or not. Guess the answer is "not".
 
When someone gives us a radial to intercept I often go to green needles (VOR) before I try to enter it on the FMS.
 
I use the GPS. The VOR gets to swinging, cone of confusion, I just find the GPS to be more accurate for me. Yeah I do VOR approaches and know how to use them, etc. But times are changing. Need to embrace technology. Do I think they are useless and need to go away?...absolutely not.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
When a buddy of mine and I are out flying the 152 cross country, we specifically put FF away and use our eyes, a sectional, VOR's, pilotage, and dead reckoning to get to our destination. It's a lot more fun that way.

I also use them for VOR checks.
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That's how I imagine I will roll. I'm a geographer by training, so I love me a good map.
 
And I'm not trying to start a fight haha! I just wondered what the reality was, when we have so many navigation choices (old and new). I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't do anything.
 
onezuludelta said:
That's how I imagine I will roll. I'm a geographer by training, so I love me a good map.
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I love maps too, but I did mapping for a living. I took someone flying once who said he was amazed that I never tuned in a VOR. The airplane didn't have GPS installed. It was before GPS...
 
I flew from KCMA to KNYL (Camarillo Ca-Yuma Az) and back twice in the last 6 weeks using only VOR's. I even managed that feared LAX airspace with VOR's and a VFR chart. I wanted to do it just to do it that way, the plane did have a 530W but didn't use it.
 
I haven't used a VOR in anything other than a "GPS fix" sense since I got my instrument rating last year. I have flown over 300 hours since then... 99% IFR.

If the GPS system craps out (anyone know how many times that has happened in the last 25 years?), I still remember how to tune one in. I am confident I won't get lost.
 
onezuludelta said:
And I'm not trying to start a fight haha! I just wondered what the reality was, when we have so many navigation choices (old and new). I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't do anything.
Click to expand...

Navigation is using the tools you have, and it's rarely just using one method. While enroute I use the FMS for course guidance, but it is also auto tuning VOR's which are displayed on the ND. Both DME's are also displayed. So I have a composite picture in front of me which greatly enhances situational awareness. On an approach I will even bring up the ADF for SA.

Same concept for flying GA, use all of your tools available. I flew my C-310Q for 10 years with dual VOR's, DME, ADF and a VFR GPS. An IFR gps would have been nice, but in reality it wouldn't have given me much more capability.
 
I use them a lot along with gps to keep sharp in case the gps craps out. And I try to fly a short XC every so often just going VOR to VOR. They also can be really useful to find your position if lost or if there's one on your destination field.
 
I have a VOR radio in my plane. I turn it on once every three or four months to ensure it is still working for backup. I haven't used it for navigation in years. I use WingX on my iPad coupled with an iLevil for GPS/AHRS/ADS-B in.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Navigation is using the tools you have, and it's rarely just using one method.
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Exactly. I fly /G when I wanna get somewhere...or IFR (I Fly Roads) when VFR and moseying along. Rarely VOR for VFR other than to dial them up for fun when bored...but then again I fly in California where we have tons of terrain features to navigate visually by.

Although I am a /G groupie having all the tools at your disposal is critical. Case in point...my IFR checkride...I did not load and/or activate my Departure Procedure correctly into my 430W. Took off, looked at the 430 and said in my head "S#!t"...rather than fumbling with the GPS, immediately just dialed up the VOR and got right on the proper radial without missing a beat.

...then resumed /G once on course :yesnod:.
 
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Before I got my ifr rating I would use VOR'S to navigate around the sfra on some of my flights. Too lazy to file a flight plan (what vfr pilot does that anyways, kidding) and I would be building hours anyways
 
For VFR for me, it's ForeFlight on IPad as primary navigation and IPhone as backup. I tune the VORs in for practice only.
 
I still use one to shoot actual approaches into my home drome even though I have GPS and GPS approaches in there as well.
 
Sure, why not? Don't know how to use a GPS. I wouldn't know one if I tripped over it. VORs work good and last a long time!
 
maybe once every 6 or 7 flights I'll dial one in to make sure I remember how but in the last 2 years I haven't used VOR once for actual navigation.
 
Everskyward said:
When someone gives us a radial to intercept I often go to green needles (VOR) before I try to enter it on the FMS.
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That depends a lot on personal preference and the IFR box. For a basic radial intercept it's not really any more difficult or more time consuming to out it in the box. I think it's probably the exact same number of steps. But there are definitely situations in which using VOR is a much easier initial step. IFR, I got into the bad habit of relying on GPS. Then decided it made no sense to have a Nav radio doing nothing and it was a better SOP to have it tuned to something.

But VFR, I rarely bother tuning in VORs. I think the last few times I did involved heading into a Class B or C airport with parallel runways and tuning in the LOC (technically not the VOR) for the assigned runway.
 
I use em just about every IFR flight, I have a GPS but like to back it up.
 
Once in the past year and a half of flying, roughly 230hrs, and it was on my way back from Long Island I had a New York Approach controller tell me to proceed direct to the LaGuardia VOR and then depart on the 270 radial.
 
Maciej said:
Once in the past year and a half of flying, roughly 230hrs, and it was on my way back from Long Island I had a New York Approach controller tell me to proceed direct to the LaGuardia VOR and then depart on the 270 radial.
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Radial outbound is one of those that tends to be easier on a VOR since GPS boxes generally look for a place to go to.
 
I file and fly IFR most flights using my Garmin 530W but always dial up the next VOR and track. Once I have the local weather at my destination I'll sometimes spin up the wind direction on the second VOR heading for a quick reference instead of making notes on the knee board.
 
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All I have in my Sky Arrow is GPS (a Garmin 496 plus whatever iPhones and iPads we have on board), so that makes my answer pretty obvious.

When I had my Cirrus, I would typically tune in the next VOR along the route, if any, as a backup. Plus there were times when suddenly called upon to intercept an airway, where it was initially quicker to just twist the OBS rather than reprogram the 430 on the fly.
 
About once a year I head out for a new destination, with the GPS on but not displaying nav data or position. Turn on the Nav radios and prove that I can still use the VORs to get there.

The GPS is there if I need it... to date, I don't. But then my typical flights are under 150 miles. Pilotage backs up the VORs.

-Skip
 
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When I last flew my Champ some years ago I never used VORs and only used a small borrowed GPS once. Once my Champ is finished I plan on not using either, just a sectional and my eyes. That electronic stuff doesn't seem to fit Champ flying anyway.

I'm not flying half way across the country so I don't need those things. Sometimes my flying is just wandering towards interesting views and not direct from A to B.
 
ahkahn said:
I haven't used a VOR in anything other than a "GPS fix" sense since I got my instrument rating last year. I have flown over 300 hours since then... 99% IFR.

If the GPS system craps out (anyone know how many times that has happened in the last 25 years?), I still remember how to tune one in. I am confident I won't get lost.
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Ah, but can you be guaranteed that it won't crap out some time in the next 25? Aggression by known or unknown enemies could easily interfere with GNS/GPS navigation. A handful of Watts at the right freq and your precious magenta line is gone. I trust that with your skill and knowledge as an IR pilot you would be fine, but what about those who rely solely on GPS and can't remember how to tune in a VOR or read a chart?
 
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If it's in the panel, I use it. They have to set to something, so why not where they provide information. Plus it impresses the passengers that I know how to get the needles to move. :wink2:
 
I do use VORs...it's fun to turn the OBS and impress my passengers with the dancing needles...makes me look like a real pilot.
 
Yes. VFR: 1) I use VORs radials to cross check position; 2) If I'm flying to a field with a VOR, I'll use it to navigate to the field even if I have GPS available; 3) I teach VORs to students.

If it's in the plane, you should be proficient in its use. I've had a GPS failure. So have many pilots I know.

I watched from the back seat as another pilot got chewed out by ATC because he was so fixated on following the GPS line that he lost track of where he was transitioning from GPS en route. He didn't get a number to call, but he could have. I don't plan on being that guy. So I use that try to use everything in the plane to keep track of when I am. There's rarely a good reason not to.
 
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