Anyone ever wonder...

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SupraPilot

Pre-takeoff checklist
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What would have happened on 9/11 if the weather was OVC at 100 and 1/2 mile vis.??

always wanted to ask..never wanted to bring it up..
 
Nothing--it would have probably happened the next day. I think they were pretty good about planning according the weather forecasts. Remember how absolutely perfect and beautiful the weather was during that time? The sky was *so blue*. That is a detail I won't forget.
 
The flights they chose were every day flights, they went on a VFR day because they needed the TV coverage.

They got the weather the night before and went, just like you plan a flight.
 
NC19143 said:
The flights they chose were every day flights, they went on a VFR day because they needed the TV coverage.
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They also needed to see their target...
 
I recall something about each "team" having flown those same flights several times prior to observe the flight crew and their standard pattern of operation.
 
I dont rememeber them saying that they bought their plane tickets the day before...i assumed they had them reserved already....

The whole week was beutiful weather..they just got lucky IMO..

I think that it could have possibly been alot worse then it was if the weather wasnt clear.. They could have just as easily just headed for downtown manhattan and crashed right in the middle of everything taking out more buildings then they did..
 
SupraPilot said:
I think that it could have possibly been alot worse then it was if the weather wasnt clear.. They could have just as easily just headed for downtown manhattan and crashed right in the middle of everything taking out more buildings then they did..
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That may be true, but they picked their targets carefully. They were making a statement that would probably have been lost if they just crashed into downtown.
 
Or just come in over the water- pretty good shot from seaward.
 
What makes anyone think that 9/11 was the first attempt? Maybe they tried it earlier but the WX was lousy. They may have finally gotten the WX they needed that day.
 
It's hard to believe that it's taken 7 years for someone to ask this question....well, at least it's the first time I've ever seen the question asked.

And I agree...they would have waited for better weather.
 
I've seen it before. They did want good Wx and Scott may be correct in his suggestion. In addition they also picked long distance flights so they would be loaded with fuel and picked a Tuesday because it was traditionally a light travel day and there was a good chance they would not have a plane loaded with people to interfere with thier plans.
 
I know they chose long flights for the large amounts of fuel...but they never said anything about them purchasing their tickets last minute...

i thought about this from the day it happened....i was surprised that for this long this thought hadnt crossed people's minds... just seems a little shady to me..not like it makes a difference now..

another thing that bothers me is when it comes down to it..this country was attacked by a couple of box cutters and razor blades....just makes me wonder...i can tell you..if im on a plane and some guy tries to take over the plane with a box cutter, he aint gettin far..i dont care if they say they got bombs or not, your dead anyway so might as well try and help yourself..
but then again..im sure the people on the hijacked planes didnt think they were gonna be flying into a building...prob thought they were gonna fly somewhere else and be released..
 
SupraPilot said:
another thing that bothers me is when it comes down to it..this country was attacked by a couple of box cutters and razor blades....just makes me wonder...i can tell you..if im on a plane and some guy tries to take over the plane with a box cutter, he aint gettin far..i dont care if they say they got bombs or not, your dead anyway so might as well try and help yourself..
but then again..im sure the people on the hijacked planes didnt think they were gonna be flying into a building...prob thought they were gonna fly somewhere else and be released..
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Up until September 11th, the standard hijack protocol was to concede to hijacker demands.

That is no longer the case. I'm sure I'm not the only one that keeps his eyes open every time someone walks forward in an airline cabin.
 
SupraPilot said:
<SNIP>
but then again..im sure the people on the hijacked planes didnt think they were gonna be flying into a building...prob thought they were gonna fly somewhere else and be released..
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That's pretty much the case- prior to 9/11, people were told to sit tight during a hijacking. Now...a different story...passengers won't just take it sitting down.
 
SupraPilot said:
another thing that bothers me is when it comes down to it..this country was attacked by a couple of box cutters and razor blades....just makes me wonder...i can tell you..if im on a plane and some guy tries to take over the plane with a box cutter, he aint gettin far..i dont care if they say they got bombs or not, your dead anyway so might as well try and help yourself..
but then again..im sure the people on the hijacked planes didnt think they were gonna be flying into a building...prob thought they were gonna fly somewhere else and be released..
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Exactly. The drill at the time was to cooperate with the hijackers, take them where they wanted to go and everybody will probably be fine. 9/11 changed that thinking, if somebody tried to gain control of an airliner today with a boxcutter a handful of passengers would beat him to death.
 
roncachamp said:
Exactly. The drill at the time was to cooperate with the hijackers, take them where they wanted to go and everybody will probably be fine. 9/11 changed that thinking, if somebody tried to gain control of an airliner today with a boxcutter a handful of passengers would beat him to death.
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laptop power cords make very good garrotes!
 
smigaldi said:
laptop power cords make very good garrotes!
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Shhhh. Chump. Give the TSA ideas and you'll only be able use your laptop for the life of the battery - for the whole trip - and the TSA will open up laptop power stores.
 
So does a swift kick to the junk, in a round about way.
 
dmccormack said:
There's not a man alive that doesn't know to throw a knee over to protect when threatened....
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If its life and death (and I'm being serious when I saw that) swift, and I do mean swift palm to the jaw will render the victim unconsciousness/possibly dead.

People think I'm a weakling until they find I am (was) a black belt, and have won sparring competitions against opponents twice my weight.

And if they are going for a round house kick on me, I got that covered as well. Spin into it, then reverse the spin with an elbow to the head. They can't hit you then.
 
rubber314chicken said:
If its life and death (and I'm being serious when I saw that) swift, and I do mean swift palm to the jaw will render the victim unconsciousness/possibly dead.

People think I'm a weakling until they find I am (was) a black belt, and have won sparring competitions against opponents twice my weight.

And if they are going for a round house kick on me, I got that covered as well. Spin into it, then reverse the spin with an elbow to the head. They can't hit you then.
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All the 9-11 Hijackers has extensive martial arts training.

The best option would be at least one good guy with a decent firearm.
 
roncachamp said:
Exactly. The drill at the time was to cooperate with the hijackers, take them where they wanted to go and everybody will probably be fine. 9/11 changed that thinking, if somebody tried to gain control of an airliner today with a boxcutter a handful of passengers would beat him to death.
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This method started with Flight 93 on September 11, 2001 around 10:00 am.
 
SupraPilot said:
What would have happened on 9/11 if the weather was OVC at 100 and 1/2 mile vis.??

always wanted to ask..never wanted to bring it up..
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They would have delayed. I doubt if they knew how to program the FMS to do it.
 
newcomer to this board but
1. The flights were planned with low passenger counts on board so as not to have to control a large number of people. Therefore tickets could easily be purchased on the day of the flight.
2. Weather was as stated, clear for maximum news impact.
3. All timed to happen within a short period of time so as to allow very little time to react by passengers on board OR gov agencies.
4. The all had flight training in the jets and knew the systems and how to disable them if needbe.

these people are NOT stupid, it is precisely the attitude that they are that gets us in so much trouble dealing with them. They are very bright and dedicated. Unfortunately they also hate us, for one reason or another, and carry grudges a very long time. The attacks had probably been planned for years and refined several times. We are very lucky the last plane was a little slow in getting turned around or the people on board would not have known about the other crashes and it would have impacted in a populated area as well. Probably the White House or the Capitol building.

my 2 cents..
 
Bob Perkins said:
these people are NOT stupid, it is precisely the attitude that they are that gets us in so much trouble dealing with them. They are very bright and dedicated. Unfortunately they also hate us, for one reason or another, and carry grudges a very long time. The attacks had probably been planned for years and refined several times. We are very lucky the last plane was a little slow in getting turned around or the people on board would not have known about the other crashes and it would have impacted in a populated area as well. Probably the White House or the Capitol building.
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The 9/11/01 attack was a followup after the first one failed.
 
well, that may be true but the second was MUCH more sophisticated. I suspect it was an accident that the buildings fell, that I suspect was unanticipated. Does not negate my observation that they are bright and dedicated. Do not construe that to indicate that I believe they should not be eliminated. Just that you should never underestimate your enemy.. that's why we're in this mess right now.
 
Bob Perkins said:
well, that may be true but the second was MUCH more sophisticated. I suspect it was an accident that the buildings fell, that I suspect was unanticipated. Does not negate my observation that they are bright and dedicated. Do not construe that to indicate that I believe they should not be eliminated. Just that you should never underestimate your enemy.. that's why we're in this mess right now.
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Agreed
 
Bob Perkins said:
...snip... Unfortunately they also hate us, for one reason or another, and carry grudges a very long time. ...SNIP...
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It is a tribal mentality we're dealing with. Clans, sects, warlords, factions, religious groups. They all have a group mentality and will follow their leaders to the bitter end. We've seen this (recently) in the Balkins, the former Soviet Union, Africa, and elsewhere. Throughout the ages, there are thousands of bodies dead because of group mentality. Oddly enough, the more we try to help, the more directed the hatred is.
9/11 might not have happened at all if the weather was marginal. That date, too, was symbolic.
Yeah, I've wondered. Wondered what sick mind could use a civilian passenger jet against a civilian target. I've also wondered why, after 7 years, that we have yet to see the leaders impaled on pikes on the White House lawn.
 
silver-eagle said:
Yeah, I've wondered. Wondered what sick mind could use a civilian passenger jet against a civilian target. I've also wondered why, after 7 years, that we have yet to see the leaders impaled on pikes on the White House lawn.
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Best end for bin Laden would be to be set free in New York City with an announcement on the news of when and where he was being released.

In fact, drop him off in front of any ladder company...
 
anyone wanna gauge a clue as to why only two of four n-numers of the planes used were canceled 4 months later due to the plane being destroyed , and the other two were just canceled 4 years later?
 
rubber314chicken said:
anyone wanna gauge a clue as to why only two of four n-numers of the planes used were canceled 4 months later due to the plane being destroyed , and the other two were just canceled 4 years later?
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Well obviously the reason is that the whole 9/11 thing was all just CG graphics and never really happened. :hairraise:Everyone "in the know" knows that.

The real answer is probably the same as the reason a plane that my Grandfather owned in the late 1950s and was destroyed by a student pilot was just removed from the FAA N# database a couple of years ago.:yes:

The FAA don't do nothing fast.
 
dmccormack said:
The 9/11/01 attack was a followup after the first one failed.
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The first one was by the gang that couldn't shoot straight - the followers of "The Blind Shiek." Remember the one rocket surgeon returned to the Ryder rental office TWICE to get his security deposit refunded. The second time was with the police report the undercover cop told him he needed.
 
mikea said:
The first one was by the gang that couldn't shoot straight - the followers of "The Blind Shiek." Remember the one rocket surgeon returned to the Ryder rental office TWICE to get his security deposit refunded. The second time was with the police report the undercover cop told him he needed.
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Yep, they were dumb, BUT the building would have collapsed had they parked the van a bit closer to a foundation wall.
 
GigG601XL said:
The real answer is probably the same as the reason a plane that my Grandfather owned in the late 1950s and was destroyed by a student pilot was just removed from the FAA N# database a couple of years ago.:yes:

The FAA don't do nothing fast.
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But why would they take two off, list the cause on them, but not the other two?

Not saying anything, but have you seen loose change 2nd edition? Go ahead and use torrents and Limewire to download it. The makers encourage it.
 
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