any piper fans out there?

WannFly

WannFly

Final Approach
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Priyo
got my eyes on a PA-28-161 with Pen Yang 180 HP conversion (or speed mod / whatever they call it). I have never even stepped in a low wing before, so wondering what do you guys think about this bird?

1985 born
about 12k AFTT (was a trainer at one time)
Lycoming O-360-A4M
Engine 100 SMOH with compression 76/78/79/79
panel mount 796
no AP. no 430/530
IFR platform

asking price 54.5K

very well taken care of from what I hear, will see her and fly this Friday and come back with some pictures
and yes, it does not have AOA :arf:
 
Registry says it's an O-320 so you'll need to get that worked through.

But a Cherokee 180 is a nice 4 seat plane and the price is nice with such a low engine times.

Pre-buy.. Pre-buy.. Pre-buy.
 
High airframe, no GPS. Get an A&P to check for corrosion in the wings.

Other than that, seems high. I've got a 180, overhaul engine in 2011 and new prop, new interior and the average of TaP, VRef is about $40k. What are the avionics?
 
Ravioli said:
Registry says it's an O-320 so you'll need to get that worked through.

But a Cherokee 180 is a nice 4 seat plane and the price is nice with such a low engine times.

Pre-buy.. Pre-buy.. Pre-buy.
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yeah already spoke to my AP and will drop the logs to him as soon as I get hold of them. about the engine, I have seen these is other airplanes too that the registry would say the stock engine and not list the conversion. should the registry list the conversion?
 
12k TT....Look at spars for corrosion, wing attachment points for cracks, stab bushings for play, all the piano hinges for play, all control linkages...and that's just the stuff I know about. Dunno if the 85 had the yoke shaft pin inspection AD or not.
 
Do you have a link to the ad by chance?
 
murphey said:
High airframe, no GPS. Get an A&P to check for corrosion in the wings.

Other than that, seems high. I've got a 180, overhaul engine in 2011 and new prop, new interior and the average of TaP, VRef is about $40k. What are the avionics?
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Garmin 796 in it so you have the magenta line, just no GPS for approach. 100 hours on the engine represents a $17,000 investment. Airframe is high so if you take a basic warrior at about 25 to 30K, add the new engine, I would still say a bit much.
On the other hand, I have a warrior with a O320 with about 300 hours, ifr package including an 89B for approach and enroute (/G) you could have for... say $50k. I'll even deliver it.
 
murphey said:
High airframe, no GPS. Get an A&P to check for corrosion in the wings.

Other than that, seems high. I've got a 180, overhaul engine in 2011 and new prop, new interior and the average of TaP, VRef is about $40k. What are the avionics?
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I have a txt out to the owner to send me the list. in any case, I will have a list this Friday. no glass, that I know
 
Ryanb said:
Do you have a link to the ad by chance?
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no ad. met a guy who sells airplanes yesterday and this owner is a friend of him. on a different note, this guy I met yesterday is 90 yrs old, still teaches actively, WWII pilot (Marine Corps) and also runs a ballet school (and teaches ballet :eek:)... fantastic guy and taught me a great deal on cross wind landing. I am going to go fly with him some time soon just to have the honors of flying with a WWII vet
 
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WannFly said:
no ad. met a guy who sells airplanes yesterday and this owner is a friend of him. on a different note, this guy I met yesterday is 90 yrs old, still teaches actively, WWII pilot (Marine Corps) and also runs a ballet school (and teaches ballet :eek:)... fantastic guy and taught me a great deal on cross wind landing. I am going to go fly with him some time soon just to have the honors of flying with a WWII vet
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Out of curiosity, what is the guy's name?
 
NOPE.

Between the time on the airframe, lack of avionics, and really it's a very common plane, the price is WAY out of line. Through a rock and you can hit a PA28 with 1/4 the time and better radios for less money.
 
I didn't realize you could take a 320 engine and make it into a 360? I have a 320 in my Cherokee and we put the higher compression cylinders on it during overhaul to give it a few extra horsepower, but at the end of the day it is still a 320.
 
MickYoumans said:
I didn't realize you could take a 320 engine and make it into a 360? I have a 320 in my Cherokee and we put the higher compression cylinders on it during overhaul to give it a few extra horsepower, but at the end of the day it is still a 320.
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There is a STC available. You replace the engine with a 360. Something you would do ifmyou're replacing the engine with a reman. You're still about 17k. Not sure if you get a rebate on the core or not (different core).
 
Price seems to be high for equipment offered.
 
55K does that thing have a brand new glass cockpit with AP and GTN-750?
 
Seems pretty $$$ to me. I've seen a lot better for a lot cheaper.
 
You should fly in one before you shop, I've only been in one once, it was a discovery flight, I felt kinda claustrophobic in there with the one door, on the other guy's side(and he's in my way on the way out). But then again that was only my second flight ever and none of the trainers are exactly roomy. :)

I might have a completely different take on it now that I have some hours, who knows.
 
I wouldn't even look at a 12,000 hour airplane unless it was almost free! if you ever try to resell it 90% of buyers will walk away from that airframe time.
 
exncsurfer said:
You should fly in one before you shop, I've only been in one once, it was a discovery flight, I felt kinda claustrophobic in there with the one door, on the other guy's side(and he's in my way on the way out). But then again that was only my second flight ever and none of the trainers are exactly roomy. :)

I might have a completely different take on it now that I have some hours, who knows.
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Yah, that one door kinda bothers me as well...if I have to get out in a hurry I pretty much have to walk over whoever is sitting on the right side. But yeah I will fly a piper, trying to schedule a ride with the ballet dancing ww 2 guy. I hear he doesn't belive in ASI and often covers it without notice

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pigpenracing said:
I wouldn't even look at a 12,000 hour airplane unless it was almost free! if you ever try to resell it 90% of buyers will walk away from that airframe time.
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Yah that's one of my concerns, I will have to see it some day. Thanks guys for the inputs, helps a lot ... especially when I don't know jack ****e about planes

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This buying a plane thing is so frustrating... I shud just win the state lottery and get a cirrus ... I hear there are some new models coming out shortly designed by someone on this forum

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Check your useful load, too. A Cherokee 180 is a good 4 place plane, but I don't think the STC to put in the O-360 comes with a GW increase. At least it didn't for my Cherokee 140.

My 1966 Cherokee 140 was a trainer at a aviation university, and it only has 9000 hours. 12k hours in 30 years is a whole lotta time.
 
I tend to agree with the previous advice. It does have a pretty steep price tag for what it carries, high TT and basic avionics. I will just say, and there will likely be many who disagree, but don't overlook an airplane just because it was a trainer for part of its life. TT shouldn't always be a deal breaker either, because many 'trainer' aircraft have very few life limited parts.
Some owners like to boast about treating their aircraft with kids gloves and being the most prestine aircraft on the field. That's great and all, but they're not just made to be a show piece that gets waxed every Sunday and flown every other Wednesday. Buy an airplane that FLIES, not one that sees daylight every few weeks. Not that it necessarily applies here, but it's just an all around general principle to look for. Just my 2c.

Keep searching OP, I think you can find a little bit more bang for your buck than what you have here.
 
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WannFly said:
This buying a plane thing is so frustrating... I shud just win the state lottery and get a cirrus ... I hear there are some new models coming out shortly designed by someone on this forum

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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It will get better, once you decide on the model you want and then you can get familiar with avionics (what's good, what's worthless) then you will get a feel of what's a fair price.
 
midcap said:
It will get better, once you decide on the model you want and then you can get familiar with avionics (what's good, what's worthless) then you will get a feel of what's a fair price.
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In my opinion, that airplane is about 10k too high, only because of the TT. I could see it bringing in ~$42,500.
 
Ryanb said:
In my opinion, that airplane is about 10k too high, only because of the TT. I could see it bringing in ~$42,500.
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My A&P said he will do some research once he sees the logs and let me know if it's worth anything. Speaking of A&P ... this guy is helping me out quite a bit with my zillion questions add odd hrs and he doesn't have a way to charge me yet,but I feel bad eating up his time. I am guessing he will get my business and it's all good, but I was wondering if it's OK to show up with a case of beer next time I am there? Don't know what an acceptable practice looks like in aviation world. Thoughts?

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Most of my time is in Cherokee 140s, Warriors and Archers. I also have time in 172s and 182s. They are different, yet the same. Fly one and see what you think (functionally, they are the same - you just need to decide if you like the wing up top or down below, one door vs. two, walking into the flaps . . .).

Check into whether you get the weight increase with the 180 HP upgrade. If not, I would look at Cherokee 180s or Archers. You would likely get a G430 or 530 in that same price range with higher useful load. Cessna's are always a little pricier than the equivalent Piper due to familiarity. If you want a real deal, check out a Sundowner . . . (If I was going fixed gear 180HP, I would definitely look at the Tiger too . . . )
 
WannFly said:
My A&P said he will do some research once he sees the logs and let me know if it's worth anything. Speaking of A&P ... this guy is helping me out quite a bit with my zillion questions add odd hrs and he doesn't have a way to charge me yet,but I feel bad eating up his time. I am guessing he will get my business and it's all good, but I was wondering if it's OK to show up with a case of beer next time I am there? Don't know what an acceptable practice looks like in aviation world. Thoughts?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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Offer to take him out to dinner, or something to compensate for his time.

It's definitely worth something, but that number I threw out was just basing off the info you gave and the physical condition it appears to be in. $42,500 is likely to be more on the higher end of the curve. Take your A&P's advice, not mine however. :)

Be sure to let us know what happens. Best of luck!
 
With 12k on the airframe and no avionics worth mentioning, 55 is waaaay too high.

Low 40's will get you nice 180 with a 530.
 
A&P came back and gave a ball park... about 40 on high side (considering he knows the guy who did the motor and said he does a great job and new prop and some other cosmetic stuff). @Ryanb looks like you were spot on. he did mention that without looking at the real thing its hard to put a number on it. i will ask the owner if he is open to offers, if not, no point driving 300 miles
 
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