Any other diesel drivers on here

One of my company vehicles is a 2008 3/4T Dodge with the Cummins turbo. I hate everything about the truck...except the Cummins turbo. Most uncomfortable POS truck I've ever owned, and I've owned many.

BUT...

The Cummins is a really nice engine.

Not a car though...
 
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Oh, we're talking road vehicles. Never mind.
 
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Had an 83 MB turbo diesel for a bunch of years. Good car although if you see one nowadays they are almost always driven by dirty hippy types. Diesel can be a pain, gloves for refueling, anti gel added to the fuel in the winter, plugging the car in in the cold, potential fuel system infections. Drove one of the new VW diesels recently it's nice, wasn't nice enough to overcome the price difference though.
 
sba55 said:
That's really the problem. Diesel cars are still more expensive than gasoline equivalents, and it takes years to make up the price difference....
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That's ashame as they are capable of getting hybrid like gas mileage without having to worry about the battery replacement or battery disposal. From an economic perspective hybrids are even worse regarding payback time.
 
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Someone pointed this out to me (I think here, actually), but after driving on a hot day, you'll want to give the turbocharger a chance to wind down before shutting off the engine - shutting off the engine shuts off the oil pump, and you don't want the TC spinning without oil to the bearings.

Also, the engine heater is a great thing. Although they say you don't *really* need to plug it in until around -20, I'll usually plug mine in if it will get below 20 above. It makes it easier on the starter and, more importantly to my comfort-loving self, the heater is already going.

Just remember that you don't ever need to change sparkplugs. ;)
 
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Anthony said:
That's ashame as they are capable of getting hybrid like gas mileage without having to worry about the battery replacement or battery disposal. From and economic perspective hybrids are even worse regarding payback time.
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No doubt. Hybrids are, for the most part, a marketing trick. Diesel makes much more sense.

In the US, for hybrids and diesels alike, the time it takes to make up the price difference is too great to really move the market. And you lose out on all the fun with most diesel and hybrid cars. I didn't worry about it; my twin-turbocharged small sedan gets about 16 mpg in the city.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Someone pointed this out to me (I think here, actually), but after driving on a hot day, you'll want to give the turbocharger a chance to wind down before shutting off the engine - shutting off the engine shuts off the oil pump, and you don't want the TC spinning without oil to the bearings.
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With most modern cars, this isn't actually a problem. Engine management on those prevents any damage; you won't help anything by keeping the engine running. In older cars, I can see how that would be a good idea, though.
 
sba55 said:
With most modern cars, this isn't actually a problem. Engine management on those prevents any damage; you won't help anything by keeping the engine running. In older cars, I can see how that would be a good idea, though.
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I had a 1993 turbocharged Mitsubishi Eclipse. Twin cam, 16 valves and TC'd. It put out about 200HP which was a lot back then and for a small car. The manual recommended allowing it to idle for one minute prior to shutdown to allow the turbo to cool down.
 
I have a "99" Dodge CTD. Best truck I have ever owned, I have 295,000 miles on it and it runs better now that when I picked it up off the show room floor with 6 miles on it. Of course it may be the "chip" I added. :eek:

Diesels are a different breed of engine, and it takes just a little "understanding" and they will serve you well. Fuel can gel when cold, but it easily avoidable if you use an additive.

The cooling of the turbo is a big deal. If you shut it down too early the heat will "coke (burn) the oil" and make sludge and sticky stuff that will make the turbo stick. ($$$) Just let it idle (the best way to cool a diesel engine) in neutral or park until the EGT's are in the 300F range before shut down. Usually 1-2 mins. tops for my CDT. I can usually get it down by shifting to "N" and coasting into the drive way.

I can't wait until they come up with lighter trucks with diesels. I love um. Toyota is rumored to be building a Tundra with a v6 Cummins in it for 2010, but that rumor has been around awhile.
 
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smigaldi said:
Are you running diesel in the airplane?

I am wondering how those diesels are capable of running Jet A while my common rail cannot. There is a learning curve with diesel and I am still on the lower left of it.
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Shoot, you mean you can't run jet A in a diesel vehicle? I guess I'll have to quit. It hasn't seem to hurt either my truck or my tractor so far.(Both Fords) Although I didn't run it full strenght in the truck and used it mostly in the winter(it has the ultimate in anti-gel)

Up north here, most of the Gas Stations either offer premium diesel or switch to premium in the cold months.

Barb
 
One Short said:
Shoot, you mean you can't run jet A in a diesel vehicle? I guess I'll have to quit. It hasn't seem to hurt either my truck or my tractor so far.(Both Fords) Although I didn't run it full strength in the truck and used it mostly in the winter(it has the ultimate in anti-gel)

Up north here, most of the Gas Stations either offer premium diesel or switch to premium in the cold months.

Barb
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Jet A won't lubricate the injection pump like diesel - depends on your particular pump - it may or may not cause the pump to wear out prematurely. I suspect that having a bit of diesel mixed in will go a long way to helping with pump life.
 
sba55 said:
That's really the problem. Diesel cars are still more expensive than gasoline equivalents, and it takes years to make up the price difference....
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Volkswagon TDI turbo diesel Jetta gets 45 mpg on a bad day... Even when Diesel costs a dollar or more a gallon, that counts for something in my book..

$25,000 for leather interior, top trim package..

And a trunk big enough to hold more luggage than a 182.
 
Geico266 said:
The cooling of the turbo is a big deal. If you shut it down too early the heat will "coke (burn) the oil" and make sludge and sticky stuff that will make the turbo stick. ($$$) Just let it idle (the best way to cool a diesel engine) in neutral or park until the EGT's are in the 300F range before shut down. Usually 1-2 mins. tops for my CDT. I can usually get it down by shifting to "N" and coasting into the drive way.
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Depends on the car. Mine has a coolant line to the turbo as well, and doesn't rely solely on oil to cool it down. So, I can shut off my car right away.

One Short said:
Up north here, most of the Gas Stations either offer premium diesel or switch to premium in the cold months.
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Yup. Where you might run into problems is if you live in an area that's normally reasonably warm all winter and you have a really cold snap, or if you go on a road trip down south in the winter, fill up down there, and drive back north. In either case, if there's any doubt, buy a bottle of Howes Lubricator and use it. :yes:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Depends on the car. Mine has a coolant line to the turbo as well, and doesn't rely solely on oil to cool it down. So, I can shut off my car right away.
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Now that is a great idea! Takes care of the turbo cooling issue so you can drive it more like a car.
 
We've had two diesel trucks in the garage the past 5 years and I've loved every minute of it. We've got a 04' Silverado 2500HD with the Duramax and we've got a 05' Ram 3500HD with the Cummins. The Silverado doesn't like starting in the cold (think Canadian winter cold--> -40C and below) but the Dodge doesn't mind it all that much. We have however had to do a lot more work to the Dodge. My father used it for medium-long haul trucking for 2 years and managed to cook two engines in that time. If anybody on here is planning on getting a diesel truck make sure you get the FORD!!! Though I love the Chev and the Dodge is nice, the Ford uses a different injector system that keeps the temps under control and lasts a lot longer (Dodge EFI's have a lifespan of 200,000 km's).
 
sba55 said:
That's really the problem. Diesel cars are still more expensive than gasoline equivalents, and it takes years to make up the price difference....
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You have not done the cost comparisons lately then. The Jetta TDI is only about $2k more than the gas diesel and with diesel fuel selling at less than gas with a real average of 35mpg or greater the break even point is but one year.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yup. Where you might run into problems is if you live in an area that's normally reasonably warm all winter and you have a really cold snap, or if you go on a road trip down south in the winter, fill up down there, and drive back north. In either case, if there's any doubt, buy a bottle of Howes Lubricator and use it. :yes:
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Around here the switch to winterized diesel starts in October so I don't think it will be much of a problem. But other TDI drivers are telling me that just to make sure fill up places that move a lot of diesel through their pumps at that time of the year.
 
smigaldi said:
No I mean I can't run it in the Jette turbo diesel with the participant filter that cleans itself with fuel form the tank. The Jet A would over heat the filter.
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Scott- I don't understand this statement. Is "participant" meant to be "particulate"?

Why does Jet A overheat the filter?

I'm not challenging you via questions- just trying to learn something...
 
smigaldi said:
Since I am a new owner of a diesel vehicle I am wondering if there are any other diesel car drivers who are also PoAers?
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Yes, Sherry has a 2006 MB E320 CDI, fabulous vehicle. She usually gets 30/37, I'm a little heavier on the pedal, and only manage 27/34. This in a 3900+ lb road tank. Also plenty of torque, 369lb-ft at 1800rpm, that is more than my F-150's 5.4l V-8 produces. Runs 0-60 in 6.6 or so.

Great car.
 
I have a friend you drives the VW Jetta TDI, he put the greaser conversion on it and runs veggie oil in it. He gets 50+ MPG on diesel and 45+ on oil. It really hasn't caught on here, so Veggie oil is still easy to get. You follow him down the road and it smells like french fries cooking.
 
sba55 said:
With most modern cars, this isn't actually a problem. Engine management on those prevents any damage; you won't help anything by keeping the engine running. In older cars, I can see how that would be a good idea, though.
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No, that's just wrong.

Modern turbos now more often have water cooling rather than just the oil feed for the bearings, and various other advancements in their technologies. This makes the turbos less need the cool-down period that turbos are known for needing. My '04.5 Dodge Ram Cummins had such a turbo. However, it's still a good idea to let the thing cool down for a bit after a hard run. On the diesels this is especially the case as they work the turbos harder than on gas engines. If you don't believe me, I can point you to plenty of cases of failed turbos on modern cars (within the past 5-10 years) where they were run hard and then shut off without a cool down period.

To the original post: I no longer drive a diesel vehicle, but I've owned two of them ('97 GMC Sierra C2500 with the 6.5TD and '04.5 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins) and loved them both. The main reason I don't own one now is when I bought my Excursion it would have cost more than twice as much to buy a diesel version (used) vs. the V10. That cost difference buys a lot of gas.

The diesels really tend to make up their value on resale, at least in trucks.
 
smigaldi said:
Since I am a new owner of a diesel vehicle I am wondering if there are any other diesel car drivers who are also PoAers?
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Well i dont drive a Diesel car but i do drive a 45 ton tow truck .............(does that count) LOL
Dave G:blueplane:
 
smigaldi said:
You have not done the cost comparisons lately then. The Jetta TDI is only about $2k more than the gas diesel and with diesel fuel selling at less than gas with a real average of 35mpg or greater the break even point is but one year.
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Huh? When I was out and about yesterday, diesel was 20-25 cents/gallon more than gasoline (Diesel 2.57, 87 octane 2.35).

smigaldi said:
Sorry that was me getting pulled away from the computer for another task as I hit send and did not proof read at all.
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That must happen a lot. ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Huh? When I was out and about yesterday, diesel was 20-25 cents/gallon more than gasoline (Diesel 2.57, 87 octane 2.35).
;)
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Well when I was out yesterday buying Diesel it was 2.59/gal and regular unleaded was 2.79/gal.Since Felix and I live in Chicago that is the price that counts, not some back woods, third world state where the football team is known for their ability to 'pack' drugs into their bodily systems. ;)

Nationwide the prices are at parity. Most of the states tax gas at a higher rate, the west coast states (WA, OR, CA) are not taxing diesel the same and it is less right now. Gas is about 2.85/gal and Diesel is at about 2.55 out there now. The price you saw yesterday is one the high end in WI according the survey of fuel prices, http://www.wisconsingasprices.com/G...limit=36&site=Wisconsin&srch=0&list=0&typ=qck. Was that a highway price?

Illinois, outside of Chicago, diesel has constantly been cheaper than gas for about a year now after it spiked last summer.

There are only two entries for Madison, not sure if that is where you saw it, http://www.wisconsingasprices.com/GasPriceSearch.aspx with and average of about $2.57. Your statewide gas average is $2.47 http://www.wisconsingasprices.com/ but there is Diesel to be had in Wi for 2.29/gal as well.

That is all pretty close to the AAA daily report as well http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.html

Even when Diesel was running higher than gas last year the break even point was in reach. It was far easier to break even in Diesel than it was to do so in a hybrid which is what helped drive my decision.

Good to know WI is charging more. I'll be sure to fill up before I head up north of the cheddar curtain next month.
 
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Anyone know the sulfur content of Jet-A? I heard 2000ppm but all I can find int he ASTM spec is a reference that seems to indicate more like around 350ppm. My engine system requires ULSD at 100ppm or less.
 
Canuckflyer said:
If anybody on here is planning on getting a diesel truck make sure you get the FORD!!! Though I love the Chev and the Dodge is nice, the Ford uses a different injector system that keeps the temps under control and lasts a lot longer.
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This is definitely NOT true of the Ford 6.0. It uses oil pressure to run the injectors. This places the oil under too much stress and breaks it down quickly. 6.0s are known to die in less than 150k miles unless the owner knows about the issues (unfortunately very fewe do) and runs a true synthetic oil. Rotella doesn't cut it in these engines. Most diesels are just getting broken in at 150k when Ford's 6.0 engines are being replaced.

Later Ford engines have pretty significant issues with the twin turbos.

A chevy truck with a cummins engine would be a great machine.
 
smigaldi said:
Anyone know the sulfur content of Jet-A? I heard 2000ppm but all I can find int he ASTM spec is a reference that seems to indicate more like around 350ppm. My engine system requires ULSD at 100ppm or less.
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What would happen if you were to use a higher sulfur fuel?


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
What would happen if you were to use a higher sulfur fuel?
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In my 08' Dodge it would plug my particulate filter. Heck, if it stays in town for a few days, it plugs often enough even with the ultra low sulpher fuel. Then you gotta run it at high "r's" down the road to regenerate the filter. I'm sure that's great for keeping the turbo cool!:rolleyes:
 
timwinters said:
In my 08' Dodge it would plug my particulate filter. Heck, if it stays in town for a few days, it plugs often enough even with the ultra low sulpher fuel. Then you gotta run it at high "r's" down the road to regenerate the filter. I'm sure that's great for keeping the turbo cool!:rolleyes:
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I did accidentally run some LSD instead of ULSD. I did not get a DPF warning which is good, just hope the regen cylce can clear it out. The problem I have in IL is that about half or more of the pumps are b5 to b20 and the emmision system cannot really deal with more than b5. What happens is incomplete burning in the DPF of the bio fuel and that gets back into the oil. Thinning the oil and reducing it ability to lubricate. Many around here are going to more frequent oil changes to mitigate any damage. So instead of 5k changes I think I may do them at 3k.

But that opens another can of worms. That is dealers are known to over fill the oil. The gas Jetta uses 5 quarts max but the TDI is 4.2 quarts. So the techs over fill and you end up blowing oil all over the place. The TDI mechanic that is most highly spoken of in these parts is in Verona, WI. I may have to go back to changing my own oil which is a PITA due to time and disposal issues.
 
Wow, things have sure changed from the old days. Diesel was dirt cheap then. We'd clean construction equipment, then wash it down with diesel. The paraffin made a good protective anti-rust coating. And all the diesel we slopped on the ground kept the weeds from growing around the equipment!

I still have hearing damage from the old Detoit supercharged 2-stroke diesels. Loud and smoky, but they never broke.


Trapper John
 
I run a 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel, well over 100k its the mose dependable truck I have ever owned. and it will pull any thing legal to take down the road. It doesn't smoke, and gives me about 18 mpg.

I have run JP-8 in it, didn't seem to hurt it. I ran 250 gal of Jet A thru it worked great. (it was given to me after a defuel of a jet)

Indestructable .
 
smigaldi said:
You have not done the cost comparisons lately then. The Jetta TDI is only about $2k more than the gas diesel and with diesel fuel selling at less than gas with a real average of 35mpg or greater the break even point is but one year.
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I'd love to believe that, but how do you arrive at that number? Are there tax benefits? For a typical 10,000 miles per year driver, the Diesel uses 90 gallons less (assuming VW's book numbers, 41 mpg for the diesel and 30 for the gasoline). Diesel is, according to the latest fuel survey, on average about 7 cents cheaper. You'll save about $250 a year, and it will take you 8 years to break even. Sadly, that's been the story with Diesel in the US for a long time now. Better, but not good enough.

Cost savings are not a good reason in my book to consider a more fuel-efficient vehicle at the current fuel prices. Even when the fuel prices were high, more fun cars (that didn't have ancient American engines build by the big three) didn't cost that much more to run. Let's assume I'm driving a 330hp car vs a Prius. That's 30 vs 50mpg real world numbers. Assuming 10000 miles and gas at $4/gallon, the much faster car costs about $600 more in fuel a year. Not enough incentive to switch. Maybe if the Prius saved me $2000/year.

I would be thrilled if the analysis actually looked different...
 
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