Any motorglider pilots out there?

Ozone

Ozone

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Ozone
I am kicking around the idea of a motorglider and wondering if anyone has opinions regarding makes and models. I would rather buy something old and reliable (grob 109? diamond katana?) than something crazy expensive (stemme anything).

Thermaling capabilities need to be good, but not necessarily great since I'm in the midwest and I envision using it for $50 hamburger runs more than thermaling.
 
Have heard the G 109 are maintenance hogs. If you can $wing it going to the Katana generation is probably worth it. Also if you are serious consider shopping the Euro glider classifieds these things can be cheap enough over there to justify shipping.
 
the sonex motorglider seems pretty simple and rugged
 
I have a couple of hours in a Sundancer (used to be a Lambada I thiink). It's more or less a touring glider. It would do what you want. 2 place side-by-side. A little cramped but not impossible. Rotax 912 ULS.
 
From my understanding the Grob 109 is fairly underpowered (go figure). Soaring club operated on 2500 feet of grass and a nonmember kept one in a hanger, but don't try two decent sized people and a full tank because you'd barely be clearing the fence. So if runway length is a factor you might want to steer away from that.
 
I know a guy who has had both a Grob and a Diamond. He did make mention that the Grob was under powered, one of the reasons he got rid of it. I did a couple of annual inspections for him and I'd say that both the Grob and Rotax engines seem unreasonably complex to me with some equally unreasonably priced parts such as the cheesy spark plugs. I imagined either one would have to be a bear to land and taxi in windy conditions, to which the owner concurred and good luck finding a hangar that one will fit into. Another Grob owner manages to get his into a 50x50 by using a special dolly and wheeling it in sideways.

Interesting aircraft, cool in their own right, but I don't think I'd want to own one. I think I'll stick with the Luscombe.
 
The Pipistrel's at OSH were intriguing. The names suck. Virus and Sinus or something like that...

The wings break down for hangar work.

They're more like a light sport with big glide ratio's.
 
The Pipistrel motorgliders are awesome. Pretty fun times. I soloed one in Boerne, TX and just lack the three hours pre-checkride to do the commercial glider checkride. Ran out of extra cash when I was doing that three years back (something about a wedding) and never finished, but would really like to do so in the future. They are very fun to fly.
 
It's a really interesting market, I've always been interested in them too, but damn, the nice ones are serious money.:eek:
 
i've only flown a Super Ximango. It climbed OK with two aboard at Littlefield, TX.
 
I've been trying to wrap my mind around a motorglider that I'd like to own and I come up empty. Short of that Stemme, everything is too much of a compromise.

At heart I'm a sailplane pilot and at the end of the day it's all about efficiency and performance. The long wing planes like the Grob are lousy airplanes and sailplanes in my eyes.

Sailplanes with retractable engines have the soaring performance but are even worse airplanes, even for exotic missions. And most of them are single place and I need to share.

The Stemme seems to do it but at a significant price point with plenty of compromises... but at least only the compromises that enable it to be what it is.

I don't know what was behind Van's abandonment of what I've heard could have been the RV-11 or 13 but I wonder if he ran up against the same thing.

But this is all uninformed opinion since I've never flown any of these ships.
 
For a self launcher, single seater I think i'd really like a Silent Electro. Small, 40:1 performance, simple electric self launching capability. I'm hoping to fly one in the Worlds next summer.

You're right about two seaters though Bill. It's tough to find one that is good at everything and it is basically in direct proportion to the price.

I've read that Van realized that he couldn't get a good enough glider compared to what would be similar priced (in the end) PIK-20E's and DG-400's, etc.
 
I've got over a hundred hours in a Pipistrel Sinus and loved that plane. Climb at VNe, Cruise at VNe and Descend at VNe (120 Kts true) all getting over 40 mpg as the crow flies. Shut off the Rotax and it does ok as a glider. The 50 ft wing span is a bit of a pain but then you have that with any true glider.

I'm currently finishing off a Stemme. If you have any concerns about maintenance, STAY AWAY from the Stemme. I could go on and on but suffice it to say that they are borderline unsupportable. Other than that, they are an engineering marvel.
 
Thanks for some good ideas. I wish the sinus were a little less expensive; that is a nice plane.
 
Stay away from the 109A. Underpowered and has a wing profile very susceptible to contamination. Light rain and you start to lose altitude :confused:

The 109B is much better, the engine is a bit of a 'one of' and I dont know what the parts situation is. The manufacturer specialized in heavy machinery (auto assembly lines), it shows in their aircraft. The 109B is not much of a glider, decent enough glide ratio but not really made for gliding, it is a good tourer for two.

If you are good with wood and you have a hangar, nothing beats a RF5. It actually glides and is fun to fly. It is an all-wood structure (birch plywood iirc) so you need a mechanic familiar with the material or someone willing to supervise and sign your work.

Then of course there are all the self-start gliders. DG400, DG600CM, DiscusCM etc. They give you the gliding part but dont make much of a travel plane.
 
Anybody have experience with the Phoenix motorglider? I saw it at Sun-N-Fun, and the option of flying it as a short wing LSA hamburger chaser, or as a long wing motorglider is appealing. I'm still having fun with my Maule and I can't afford 2 planes at once, but I can imagine a day when a motorglider would be better for me.
http://www.phoenixairusa.com/
 
Flyhound said:
Anybody have experience with the Phoenix motorglider? I saw it at Sun-N-Fun, and the option of flying it as a short wing LSA hamburger chaser, or as a long wing motorglider is appealing. I'm still having fun with my Maule and I can't afford 2 planes at once, but I can imagine a day when a motorglider would be better for me.
http://www.phoenixairusa.com/
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Oofta! Too rich for my blood. I'll wait until the used market opens up on these planes.
 
A guy in my club has a DG-800 (808b, I think).

He really likes it. His one complaint, about all the motor gliders he's been associated with, is engine vibration. He says it's a constant battle to re-torque every single bolt, all the time. Something is always vibrating loose.
 
lolachampcar said:
I'm currently finishing off a Stemme. If you have any concerns about maintenance, STAY AWAY from the Stemme. I could go on and on but suffice it to say that they are borderline unsupportable. Other than that, they are an engineering marvel.
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Of course the first-hand experience trumps everything you read on forums, but there's a guy based at Telluride, CO, who gives rides in an S6, and he's been doing it for at least 3 years now. I never flew with him, but I saw him flying just this November. I suppose that means that if you charge high enough price, Stemme becomes supportable enough to run a viable business.
 
JHW said:
the sonex motorglider seems pretty simple and rugged
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That may be true, but the only time I saw one, the owner pushed it into the hangar on a dolly. It will not fit into a T-hangar and so rented a little space in a big hangar, where they let him park along one wall. Probably a problem with any glider, except Phoenix.
 
That is Glider Bob running an S10-VT out of Telluride :)
 
Got my Stemme S10 up and flying. WOW. Now I understand why the plane exists. This thing loves to go up. It is my first experience with a 50:1 glider and now I see why glider pilots are so in love with the sport.

I'm going to try some mountain flying in Colorado this summer which will add a whole new dimension to the soaring.

Maintenance may be a bit difficult (is a bit difficult) but the performance of this bird makes it more than worth all the trouble.
 
What are the maintenance difficulty issues? I secretly lust after a motor glider, the efficiency is astounding.
 
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