Any last minute tips for an IFR checkride?

Collin Kaufman

Collin Kaufman

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Ckflyer13
I go in tomorrow morning for my IFR oral and checkride. I feel ready but at the same time I don't feel ready at all. Anybody have any last minute tips or things to study, or maybe even some practice questions lol? Hopefully I'll do well and I'll let y'all know how I do afterwards!
 
Search for Ron Levy's checkride advice.

While originally for the primary checkride, the info applies to all checkrides.
 
Take 3 deep breaths before rolling on to the runway for takeoff then relax.
 
If you make a mistake, don't focus on it. Correct it as best you can and move on.
 
Breath.... and if you don't know that answer, have a source handy to get it.... Good luck today, wishing good things for you.. :)
 
Fly like you practice. By the time you get in your 40 hours of instrument flight, you should be overprepared for the checkride. You are not expected to be perfect, but are expected to respond to bright lights and loud noises--that is, you could notice deviations and take positive action to counteract them. Have fun and earn you ticket. I did my IR checkride with the same DPE that did my PPL, so that made things less stressful.
 
alfadog said:
If you make a mistake, don't focus on it. Correct it as best you can and move on.
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Hard to do when the examiner is doing everything in his power to make you feel like an idiot! Lol, but I feel like I did my best to just laugh at myself and have fun.
 
So oral went well, I'm Auburn's flight school so I get letter grades. I got a B on the oral, even though I feel like I was asked some pretty extensive questions. Flight on the other hand, didn't go too great. I thought I was doing fine, and any other day I would have been happy with it. We went straight from the airport to a VOR for an IAF for a full procedure VOR alpha approach. I posted a picture of the approach and what I did. I turned outbound before I reached the VOR to fly by it and then fly outbound. I've done this several times before with my instructor, but my examiner was not happy about it. He made me turn back and cross it before flying outbound. We flew outbound and did the procedure turn. Instead of turning right to fly back inbound, I turned left, stupid mistake. After this he told me take us home. I know that PT was wrong, but I don't think it was worth failing me over. Afterwards he told me he didn't like that I wasn't announcing when I was starting and finishing my checklists and he didn't like how I was making my radio calls.

Pretty bummed out but I'll get there. What do y'all think about him getting upset about me just flying by, rather than over? I talked to my instructor and my pilot friends agree with me.
 

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It is not a "fly-by" waypoint, it is a "fly-over" waypoint. RNAV approaches often have the former, VOR you fly over.

"(a) Fly-by waypoints. Fly-by waypoints are used when an aircraft should begin a turn to the next course prior to reaching the waypoint separating the two route segments. This is known as turn anticipation.

(b) Fly-over waypoints. Fly-over waypoints are used when the aircraft must fly over the point prior to starting a turn."
 
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But that (fly-by vs. fly-over), to me, was more a "teachable moment" for the DPE, not a dealbreaker. I guess coupled with turning to the unprotected side, he felt you were not ready.

edit: I think I misunderstood the error there on the procedure turn but not the result, I guess. I know that you will not let it get you down and you get it the next time!
 
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Collin Kaufman said:
So oral went well, I'm Auburn's flight school so I get letter grades. I got a B on the oral, even though I feel like I was asked some pretty extensive questions. Flight on the other hand, didn't go too great. I thought I was doing fine, and any other day I would have been happy with it. We went straight from the airport to a VOR for an IAF for a full procedure VOR alpha approach. I posted a picture of the approach and what I did. I turned outbound before I reached the VOR to fly by it and then fly outbound. I've done this several times before with my instructor, but my examiner was not happy about it. He made me turn back and cross it before flying outbound. We flew outbound and did the procedure turn. Instead of turning right to fly back inbound, I turned left, stupid mistake. After this he told me take us home. I know that PT was wrong, but I don't think it was worth failing me over. Afterwards he told me he didn't like that I wasn't announcing when I was starting and finishing my checklists and he didn't like how I was making my radio calls.

Pretty bummed out but I'll get there. What do y'all think about him getting upset about me just flying by, rather than over? I talked to my instructor and my pilot friends agree with me.
Click to expand...

What were you navigating with? Obviously you had a VOR receiver. Did you have DME and/or GPS. I’m wondering what you based your early turn to the outbound leg on.
 
alfadog said:
But that (fly-by vs. fly-over), to me, was more a "teachable moment" for the DPE, not a dealbreaker. I guess coupled with turning to the unprotected side, he felt you were not ready.

edit: I think I misunderstood the error there on the procedure turn but not the result, I guess. I know that you will not let it get you down and you get it the next time!
Click to expand...
He really didn't try to teach me anything it seemed like. It was either "okay good" or "you couldn't be more wrong". I know it sounds bad but it's not an exaggeration
 
Collin thanks for sharing even though it didn't go well. There are several of us "training" for our IFR ticket.
 
luvflyin said:
What were you navigating with? Obviously you had a VOR receiver. Did you have DME and/or GPS. I’m wondering what you based your early turn to the outbound leg on.
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It was a G1000 C172. The GPS did show it as an early turn before the VOR, but I wasn't blindly just following the magenta line. I've flown this approach probably 20 times (maybe more) and this was how my instructor taught my to do it. My examiner didn't try to explain why I was wrong at all so I was left a little confused about it.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Collin thanks for sharing even though it didn't go well. There are several of us "training" for our IFR ticket.
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Absolutely, we're all in this together. If I didn't do well, hopefully someone can learn from my mistakes.
 
Collin Kaufman said:
He really didn't try to teach me anything it seemed like. It was either "okay good" or "you couldn't be more wrong". I know it sounds bad but it's not an exaggeration
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Firstly sorry it didn’t go so well but now you know a bit more about that DPE.

Just one item. Technically the examiner is not supposed to teach at all on a checkride. Some do anyways, but it is not per spec.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Firstly sorry it didn’t go so well but now you know a bit more about that DPE.

Just one item. Technically the examiner is not supposed to teach at all on a checkride. Some do anyways, but it is not per spec.
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"not supposed to" implies, at least to me, "not allowed to". Is that what you meant? I do not know what the rules are but my IR DPE had a word of wisdom or two and I've heard the same about other DPE's.
 
alfadog said:
But that (fly-by vs. fly-over), to me, was more a "teachable moment" for the DPE, not a dealbreaker. I guess coupled with turning to the unprotected side, he felt you were not ready.

edit: I think I misunderstood the error there on the procedure turn but not the result, I guess. I know that you will not let it get you down and you get it the next time!
Click to expand...

I don’t think he turned to the wrong side. After making the left turn off the outbound leg he followed it with another left turn which is not the typical way to do it, but it’s not illegal.
 
Collin Kaufman said:
So oral went well, I'm Auburn's flight school so I get letter grades. I got a B on the oral, even though I feel like I was asked some pretty extensive questions. Flight on the other hand, didn't go too great. I thought I was doing fine, and any other day I would have been happy with it. We went straight from the airport to a VOR for an IAF for a full procedure VOR alpha approach. I posted a picture of the approach and what I did. I turned outbound before I reached the VOR to fly by it and then fly outbound. I've done this several times before with my instructor, but my examiner was not happy about it. He made me turn back and cross it before flying outbound. We flew outbound and did the procedure turn. Instead of turning right to fly back inbound, I turned left, stupid mistake. After this he told me take us home. I know that PT was wrong, but I don't think it was worth failing me over. Afterwards he told me he didn't like that I wasn't announcing when I was starting and finishing my checklists and he didn't like how I was making my radio calls.

Pretty bummed out but I'll get there. What do y'all think about him getting upset about me just flying by, rather than over? I talked to my instructor and my pilot friends agree with me.
Click to expand...


I know from experience that turning into the protected side of a procedure turn or hold will be a fail on a checkride every time. I have had students try it, it didn't work for them either.

Edit: I read the other comments and I could see how he might not have entered the protected side. if so I agree that this should probably have not been a fail as you are allowed to use any kind of course reversal you like as long as you stay within the designated area.

As noted above how did you know to turn before the VOR? If you used you ipad (a for reference only device) then I think he had every right to not be happy as this shows a lack of understanding of what are primary navigation instruments and reference only instruments.

IF you used a DME and/or IFR legal GPS then I would have probably given you a pass. Especially if this is a VOR/DME approach, if it is a VOR I only he might have expected it to be done as a VOR only approach in which case the only way to identify the Station is by station passage, but he should have made that clear if you have DME/GPS capability.

I am trying to remember where or if a VOR is designated as a Fly-over waypoint. As I recall The garmin GPS will show a leading turn when approaching one.
Would be grateful if someone pointed me the right direction.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
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brcase said:
I know from experience that turning into the protected side of a procedure turn or hold will be a fail on a checkride every time. I have had students try it, it didn't work for them either.

As noted above how did you know to turn before the VOR? If you used you ipad (a for reference only device) then I think he had every right to not be happy as this shows a lack of understanding of what are primary navigation instruments and reference only instruments.

IF you used a DME and/or IFR legal GPS then I would have probably given you a pass. Especially if this is a VOR/DME approach, if it is a VOR I only he might have expected it to be done as a VOR only approach in which case the only way to identify the Station is by station passage, but he should have made that clear if you have DME/GPS capability.

I am trying to remember where or if a VOR is designated as a Fly-over waypoint. As I recall The garmin GPS will show a leading turn when approaching one.
Would be grateful if someone pointed me the right direction.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
Click to expand...

AIM 5-3-5
 
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/FAA_Order_8900.2.pdf
alfadog said:
"not supposed to" implies, at least to me, "not allowed to". Is that what you meant? I do not know what the rules are but my IR DPE had a word of wisdom or two and I've heard the same about other DPE's.
Click to expand...

Per FAA Order 8900.2 2.g "Teaching/Testing. A designee must not combine teaching with testing during the testing of an applicant."

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/FAA_Order_8900.2.pdf
 
Sorry to hear it didn’t go well, but you’re MUCH better off making mistakes (and learning from them) now than when you’re down to minimums on an approach. Think about what you’ll do differently next time and GO GET IT.
 
Collin Kaufman said:
Instead of turning right to fly back inbound, I turned left, stupid mistake. After this he told me take us home. I know that PT was wrong,
Pretty bummed out but I'll get there. What do y'all think about him getting upset about me just flying by, rather than over? I talked to my instructor and my pilot friends agree with me.
Click to expand...
I don’t get why this moment you failed. The only rules regarding the PT was turn left going outbound... to turn back inbound you can turn left or right. It really doesn’t matter. It is wise to turn right and give yourself time. But you can turn back left to head back to intercept the inbound course if you wanted to. Say for winds Pushing you way out there.
My guess is by turning off the VOR early you probably didn’t have the PT set up right and got ahead of yourself. For
My checkride I had a tight VOR-A with PT that I had to do. You rush those and the PT turns into a sloppy mess. I flew mine probably 6 times until I learned to slow down and time my legs to be longer and not rush it.
 
I think that your CFII has fallen into a careless habit regarding that approach. That is not the IAF that you would use for that approach in actual instrument flight, IMO, when coming from that direction, you flew right over that IAF at DRYDN. By starting at the VOR, you needed a sharp 120d right turn to the outbound course. That is unnatural and led to the habit of leading the turn. Better, IMO, would have been if your CFII taught you to approach the VOR needing maybe a 60d turn outbound.
 
Collin Kaufman said:
Pretty bummed out but I'll get there. What do y'all think about him getting upset about me just flying by, rather than over? I talked to my instructor and my pilot friends agree with me.
Click to expand...

Fly-by waypoints are for GPS approaches. There is no such thing as a fly-by waypoint on a VOR approach. Of course your instructor agrees with you, he is the one that apparently taught you incorrectly.
 
You didn't fail the check-ride, it is an experience you learned from... Chin up mate, looking forward to hearing how you wowed this guy with your airmen ship on the next outing.
 
brcase said:
I know from experience that turning into the protected side of a procedure turn or hold will be a fail on a checkride every time. I have had students try it, it didn't work for them either.

Edit: I read the other comments and I could see how he might not have entered the protected side. if so I agree that this should probably have not been a fail as you are allowed to use any kind of course reversal you like as long as you stay within the designated area.

As noted above how did you know to turn before the VOR? If you used you ipad (a for reference only device) then I think he had every right to not be happy as this shows a lack of understanding of what are primary navigation instruments and reference only instruments.

IF you used a DME and/or IFR legal GPS then I would have probably given you a pass. Especially if this is a VOR/DME approach, if it is a VOR I only he might have expected it to be done as a VOR only approach in which case the only way to identify the Station is by station passage, but he should have made that clear if you have DME/GPS capability.

I am trying to remember where or if a VOR is designated as a Fly-over waypoint. As I recall The garmin GPS will show a leading turn when approaching one.
Would be grateful if someone pointed me the right direction.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
Click to expand...
I was using a G1000, and he didn't specify that he wanted me to use VOR only. The g1000 did show a lead turn. I was also taught by my instructor that you can use GPS on any VOR approach up until the final approach course inbound
 
benyflyguy said:
I don’t get why this moment you failed. The only rules regarding the PT was turn left going outbound... to turn back inbound you can turn left or right. It really doesn’t matter. It is wise to turn right and give yourself time. But you can turn back left to head back to intercept the inbound course if you wanted to. Say for winds Pushing you way out there.
My guess is by turning off the VOR early you probably didn’t have the PT set up right and got ahead of yourself. For
My checkride I had a tight VOR-A with PT that I had to do. You rush those and the PT turns into a sloppy mess. I flew mine probably 6 times until I learned to slow down and time my legs to be longer and not rush it.
Click to expand...
Yes, i understand why you're supposed to turn right, but we didn't have much winds and I flew outbound for a minute and a half so I had plenty of time
 
alfadog said:
I think that your CFII has fallen into a careless habit regarding that approach. That is not the IAF that you would use for that approach in actual instrument flight, IMO, when coming from that direction, you flew right over that IAF at DRYDN. By starting at the VOR, you needed a sharp 120d right turn to the outbound course. That is unnatural and led to the habit of leading the turn. Better, IMO, would have been if your CFII taught you to approach the VOR needing maybe a 60d turn outbound.
Click to expand...
Yea, it is a bit awkward, but it's taught by our CFIIs because that's what our Chief tests us on (same guy that tested me today). It's a bit corrupt in a sense. Everything revolves around what he wants to hear. There's regs that are taught to us that are wrong because that's what chief believes and wants to hear.
 
dmspilot said:
Fly-by waypoints are for GPS approaches. There is no such thing as a fly-by waypoint on a VOR approach. Of course your instructor agrees with you, he is the one that apparently taught you incorrectly.
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I did not know that. Thank you for this!
 
I flew north of 50 checkrides in the Navy and never tanked one and did tank the ILS on my PPL instrument (exceeded 3/4 deflection) but the DPE went ahead and we did all the other items which went fine and I just had to go back a week later and fly the ILS. The check ride isn't meant to be a learning evolution in the airplane but it's surprising to me that he didn't want to help you get better in the debrief.

Oh well, it's a very minor setback, no matter how it feels now and I KNOW how you feel, press on and it will be over before you know it.
 
Did you get anything else checked off on the ACS or was this literally the first thing you did???
 
Collin Kaufman said:
Yea, it is a bit awkward, but it's taught by our CFIIs because that's what our Chief tests us on (same guy that tested me today). It's a bit corrupt in a sense. Everything revolves around what he wants to hear. There's regs that are taught to us that are wrong because that's what chief believes and wants to hear.
Click to expand...

That is sad.
 
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