Any Hope? Substance Abuse

[Caruna]

Dear All,
Sadly I cannot count myself among the ranks of pilots on this board because I have made enough bad decisions to look really bad and I wouldn't want to disrespect those who hold true to the expectations of their professions.

Sorry for the long post, would truly appreciate anyone advice , suggestions, comments etc. If you don't want the long-winded version, Basically I have 2 DUI's and a Drug Arrest for possession with intent Heroin and Cocaine (I know). While I did pass all of my 26 random drug screens I was financially unable to continue. I also have a "following too closely" on my driving record and a few months before the Drug Arrests I crashed into someones bumper without insurance, but it was a Benz bumper and I helped them tremendously by never receiving the court date , not showing up and getting a $6000 judgement which I have satisfie.



1.So just after I got my private pilots license I wrote a letter to the FAA after realizing that I was omitting a marijuana violation as I was advised by a lawyer but not an aviation attorney. Anyhow I consulted said aviation attorney who basically wrote a standard report and sent it to the FAA. 2 weeks later I got a certified letter opened it and it advised me I had two days to get a urine drug screen sent to the address listed.

Got my Commercial Pilots License!

Very soon after that I got my first DUI 2010.

Then I moved to Seattle, followed a girl if I'm to be honest and with my now revoked flight privileges I entered this new city and completely unable to find a job. Autozone would not hire me because of the DUI even though I was not applying for a driving position the guy said "Hey, I like you but HR says you spent a few days in prison , she said to stay away." I did stay in prison because I had no job, sparse savings and was unwilling to burden someone rather than simply stay in a nice enough jail for the weekend it didn't even make financial sense imo.

Yet I also didn't realize that time spent locked up apparently looks really bad to a hiring manager for minimum wage jobs so I cannot even imagine how the FAA see's it, if only it stopped there.

Then came the Drug Arrest 2012: Possession and intent to distribute Cocaine/Heroin, case was handed to Intervention Education and the court was satisfied to expunge my record of this arrest (but of course "expunged" means nothing when it comes to background checks.

So I got locked up and they impounded my car.

All I had was my car and I knew, not enough money to even get it out.

Even though I think this incident is the real stake in my aviation career's heart I have to say that I did need that time, clarity and understanding which would ensue. About 3 weeks later they processed me out, my Mom drove from Denver to bail me out, just a whirlwind of trouble.

Since that event truly clarified things I had to end it with this girl and Atlanta. I moved to Denver and was loving life, the very night before I was gonna hand a retainer to an aviation attorney I met a "friend" at a bar and offered to drive her home. I wasn't worried I had 2 beers in just under 2 hours and was drinking slowly between water and food. But I guess I got more than I bargained for at some point my tail light was slowly failing, having been on when I parked the car I figured we were good to go.

The cop who pulled us over not only disagreed but asked me if I was drinking, got me and her out of the car, had me do a field sobriety test which was inconclusive (I really don't see how I could've done better any day of the week) but it's a moot point, a full two hours plus after consuming my second and last beer, I blew into the breathalyzer at the station with confidence and could not believe it when he booked me.

Any hope was over and I deserved no less, the pure recklessness of even allowing myself to be close to that situation was just shameful considering the many people who invested their time, understanding and care into me.

Anyhow that's my sob story and it is sad. Is there anything I can do, until I can afford the Psychological and Psychiatric evaluations?

Can I be pro-active (except for the obvious, I don't drink anymore was never a heavy drinker but the FAA as I understand it has diagnosed me with a substance abuse disorder. I have some idea of what will happen , the random tests, professional groups etc but if it's possible and I understand this is a very involved story and I need an aviation lawyer, I think to even have a chance at getting a chance but I don't know what order to do things in.

The last statement I got from the FAA was to seek out an AME, which I will do but I'm expecting a flat out denial, so am also wondering and this is not a medical question but maybe someone can point me in the direction of work, where having a CPL will be advantageous but I don't need a medical.

I know this has been a rather involved post. Maybe a young me will read this and not make those dumb decisions. Thank you all, it's tough to let go of flying as I truly love it but I knew what was expected of me from the word go.

If someone said I would have 2 DUI's and a Drug arrest by 2015,

 

[Mike Smith]

I have no idea what your prospects are, but I wish you good luck and continued sobriety. Also, cudos to you for owning your mistakes, too many times people deflect and transfer blame for their trouble. I sincerely hope you can fly again.

 

[AggieMike88]

...but maybe someone can point me in the direction of work, where having a CPL will be advantageous but I don't need a medical.

If you are referring to earning an income whole operating an aircraft as PIC, then as a Commercial Pilot, you know the answer to this one. To earn money flying, you need the CPL, and that requires an active second class medical.

If you're asking us to lead you to employment that does not involve flying, that might might be more successful and satisfying being accomplished on your own.

To the general question of can you regain flying status, that is difficult one to answer by some random person on the internet such as I. At minimum, you're going to need the guidance of a very senior AME who is also well established with difficult cases such as yours.

Best of luck.

 

[docmirror]

I'll be first, contact Dr Bruce Chien AME. www.aeromedicaldoc.com Tell him EVERYTHING. I'm not sure what you want to do WRT aviation but I seriously doubt even if you get your medical back that anyone will hire you as a pilot with your background. But, if you want to just fly around, maybe you can get it sorted out.

Dr Bruce will keep it all confidential but as you've learned, you can't leave anything out. You have to get it all down on paper and then you'll know what the road ahead looks like.

 

[Everskyward]

maybe someone can point me in the direction of work, where having a CPL will be advantageous but I don't need a medical.

Having the knowledge which you acquired getting your CPL might help you get a job as support staff at any number of aviation companies, however your history of convictions will work against you. As you found out with AutoZone, most companies will ask the "have you ever been convicted" question on the application, and many companies will run a background check as you found out with Autozone.

Good luck in the future. I have known people who have overcome mistakes made in the past but it takes time.

 

[bflynn]

Ditto what Cowboy said.

And to add what you already suspect - IF you can get back at all, it's a long road. I'd expect at least 10 years of proven sobriety. The FAA knows that people screw up and that they can get better, but it takes a long time to prove it.

 

[Caruna]

Hey All,

Thank you very much for the replies , it's what I expected but also very helpful. For example, I was considering getting an Aviation Science degree since my CPL would eliminate almost 2 and a half years of school but that would be completely useless for me.

It's an easy pill to swallow, easier than one might imagine because I have no one to blame but myself. Its the guys who get diabetes etc who I really feel bad for.

Anyhow the consensus seems to be that I burned this bridge, at least as far as a career Living responsibly, completing college , getting at least a decade between me and my last DUI and I may be able to get my medical back and fly for fun.

Anyhow appreciate the responses and the civility. Godspeed all!

 

[Unregistered]

I would forget flying and try find a trade that you can earn a great living at like HVAC or maybe plumbing if you are good at working with your hands. Down the road when you have made a lot of money in your trade think about flying again. Put your nose to the grindstone and work your a$$ of every day and you will laugh about your past problems. Good luck.

 

[Unregistered]

I can provide a little insight maybe.

A couple of years ago I lost a parent, my job, my wife and my house all in a short time and started drinking heavily. Decided to get killing myself slowly with booze was a bad idea and checked into rehab. I also had a DUI in '06 and was diagnosed with depression.

I completed a 30 day stay and 6 months of out patient. Then attended their weekly alumni sessions up until recently when I moved. When I got out I hooked up with an HIMS AME and he set me up to pee in a cup once a month randomly. And have been doing so for a year and a half now (didn't start right away and unfortunately the drug test results from rehab didn't make it into my record otherwise they would have counted).

I was recently given the option to hit up Psychiatrist and get a panel of psych tests (~$3800) and apply or pee for the full two years then see a counselor. $3800 is a lot of flight time so I chose the later (thought I did consider it!).

In a few months I'll finally be able to apply.

Short at least two years of proven (pee in a cup) sobriety all the way to the date you apply...so you'll probably have to start the whole process again, though the 26 months you currently have can't hurt. and a date with a drug and alcohol counselor.

Get yourself to an HIMS AME.

Having said all that you may be SOL as I seem to remember the FAA has a three strikes and you're out rule. Two DUIs and a Drug conviction seems bad, but can't hurt to check with an HIMS AME. You'll get a better answer there than here.

 

[Unregistered]

I can provide a little insight

I completed a 30 day stay and 6 months of out patient. Then attended their weekly alumni sessions up until recently when I moved. When I got out I hooked up with an HIMS AME and he set me up to pee in a cup once a month randomly. And have been doing so for a year and a half now (didn't start right away and unfortunately the drug test results from rehab didn't make it into my record otherwise they would have counted).

I was recently given the option to hit up Psychiatrist and get a panel of psych tests (~$3800) and apply or pee for the full two years then see a counselor. $3800 is a lot of flight time so I chose the later (thought I did consider it!).

In a few months I'll finally be able to apply.

Short at least two years of proven (pee in a cup) sobriety all the way to the date you apply...so you'll probably have to start the whole process again, though the 26 months you currently have can't hurt. and a date with a drug and alcohol counselor.

I've been told I need this because of drinking tickets I got 15 years ago. Gotta love federal government. Anyway how do these random tests work? Do they call you, then you have so much amount of time to go in? What happens if I'm on business travel? Can you still have a beer once in a while and not worry about getting nailed to a wall?

 

[Vaflier]

If you have a substance abuse problem then you cannot drink at all. I have three alchoholic brothers ones sober for 5 years, one sober for 20 years and one who claims to be sober for 2 years, but he is lying and thinks I do not know. He will likely die from drinking. The one sober the longest tells me that he could have a drink and be fine but he is unsure just which drink would be the one to send him down that road again and that thought scares the hell out of him. Best to have none. He once told me something which I have come to believe to be true, there are only three ways a drunk or drug abuser can wind up, locked up, sobered up, or covered up. You get to choose which. I wish you the best of luck and I have seen that it can be done. Put one foot in front of the other and keep moving forward and in time it will get better. You have already done what many will never do, admitted to yourself that your problems are caused by the man in the mirror, you can change that man into someone you would be proud to know. Good luck and never give up.

 

[Henning]

I don't buy the whole story, nobody who spends a few weeks in jail calls it "prison", and prison would be where you would likely still be if you had a public defender on an intent to distribute cocaine and heroin. Nice troll though. As far as reality goes, FAA won't talk to people until 10 years after a felony drug distribution conviction.

 

[Geico266]

I don't buy the whole story, nobody who spends a few weeks in jail calls it "prison", and prison would be where you would likely still be if you had a public defender on an intent to distribute cocaine and heroin. Nice troll though. As far as reality goes, FAA won't talk to people until 10 years after a felony drug distribution conviction.

I agree.

 

[Unregistered]

I'm the unreg who is going through the two years pee testing...

I've been told I need this because of drinking tickets I got 15 years ago. Gotta love federal government. Anyway how do these random tests work? Do they call you, then you have so much amount of time to go in? What happens if I'm on business travel? Can you still have a beer once in a while and not worry about getting nailed to a wall?

I get an email and a call once a month from the testing company (not the FAA). I have (I think) four or so days to comply.

There are two tests you can take one that tests for alcohol in the last 24 hours. This test they call you have to pee that day. The other tests for alcohol metabolites (EtG) and is effective for about a week or so, though there is a bunch of info out there on the effectiveness of the test as time wears on. I'm getting the EtG test done. When I travel as I do for my job, if I haven't been called that month I just make sure I know where the nearest test facility is. They are all over. When I traveled out of the country a few months back, I alerted my AME well before this, gave him a copy of my itinerary and if I was called he'd reschedule it for when I got back state side (I wasn't called).

Can you have a beer? No. You're doing this to show the FAA you can remain sober for an extended period of time and if you ask that question of any HIMS AME they probably won't touch you. Keep in mind you're demonstrating you can stay sober for an extended period of time. You also need to be doing recovery related activities (read: AA) during this time too. At the end you still have to meet with a substance abuse counselor. And they're pretty good about sniffing out someone who's still drinking.

Can you work around the test? Yeah probably. I've read a bunch about it, some people talk about all the false positives, some people talk about drinking and passing the next day. Me? I could care less about booze and to be safe, I cut out eating anything cooked in alcohol, and switched from Listerine to a brand without alcohol and stay away from hand sanitizers and the like. I don't want to have to do this again for another two years. Better safe than sorry.

What's more important? Beer or your medical?

 

[Henning]

I'm the unreg who is going through the two years pee testing...



I get an email and a call once a month from the testing company (not the FAA). I have (I think) four or so days to comply.

There are two tests you can take one that tests for alcohol in the last 24 hours. This test they call you have to pee that day. The other tests for alcohol metabolites (EtG) and is effective for about a week or so, though there is a bunch of info out there on the effectiveness of the test as time wears on. I'm getting the EtG test done. When I travel as I do for my job, if I haven't been called that month I just make sure I know where the nearest test facility is. They are all over. When I traveled out of the country a few months back, I alerted my AME well before this, gave him a copy of my itinerary and if I was called he'd reschedule it for when I got back state side (I wasn't called).

Can you have a beer? No. You're doing this to show the FAA you can remain sober for an extended period of time and if you ask that question of any HIMS AME they probably won't touch you. Keep in mind you're demonstrating you can stay sober for an extended period of time. You also need to be doing recovery related activities (read: AA) during this time too. At the end you still have to meet with a substance abuse counselor. And they're pretty good about sniffing out someone who's still drinking.

Can you work around the test? Yeah probably. I've read a bunch about it, some people talk about all the false positives, some people talk about drinking and passing the next day. Me? I could care less about booze and to be safe, I cut out eating anything cooked in alcohol, and switched from Listerine to a brand without alcohol and stay away from hand sanitizers and the like. I don't want to have to do this again for another two years. Better safe than sorry.

What's more important? Beer or your medical?

That's interesting, so the only thing you can't do is smoke pot; coke, speed, and heroin clear in 3 days.

 

[Unregistered]

Can you have a beer? No. You're doing this to show the FAA you can remain sober for an extended period of time and if you ask that question of any HIMS AME they probably won't touch you.

I'm the one with 15 year old tickets. This really sucks, because in my early 20s I drank quite a bit but never in my life have I been dependent. Just was careless when I *did* drink. I won't bore you with my current lifestyle but for sake of conversation just trust me when I say if I drink 3 beers in a week it was a real bender. Nobody would look at my life in the last 5-10 years and tell me I'm not trustable flying a plane. The Feds make you get "reprogrammed" as if you are flying a 737 with 150 people in back. This process kills my dream and does ZERO for aviation safety in my case.

As I get older, I hate government and its bureaucracy more and more.

 

[retailguy]

I'm the one with 15 year old tickets. This really sucks, because in my early 20s I drank quite a bit but never in my life have I been dependent. Just was careless when I *did* drink. I won't bore you with my current lifestyle but for sake of conversation just trust me when I say if I drink 3 beers in a week it was a real bender. Nobody would look at my life in the last 5-10 years and tell me I'm not trustable flying a plane. The Feds make you get "reprogrammed" as if you are flying a 737 with 150 people in back. This process kills my dream and does ZERO for aviation safety in my case.

As I get older, I hate government and its bureaucracy more and more.

So what do you really want to do? Drink or fly? You've got a choice from the sound of it, and it's only two years. Us old guys would say, two short years...

While I'm with you on the Government bureaucracy, there is a path if you choose to take it.

How much is flying worth it to you?

I am a cancer survivor. I didn't have a path for my type and had to blaze the trail myself, with the help of Dr. Bruce.

I jumped through every damm hoop they put forward, and then when I was finished asked them "what else"? I wanted to fly more than anything else in the world and now I am flying again. For whatever time I have left. I comply with everything the FAA wants, and they leave me alone now.

So, again, what's it worth to you?

 

[superdad]

The Feds make you get "reprogrammed" as if you are flying a 737 with 150 people in back. This process kills my dream and does ZERO for aviation safety in my case.

As I get older, I hate government and its bureaucracy more and more.

What happens if I'm on business travel? Can you still have a beer once in a while and not worry about getting nailed to a wall?

GOOD!!!

If your worried about getting nailed to the wall then you really need help. Your trying to get the FAA to let you fly and your worried about having a beer? Do the FAA and the public and stay the HE** out of aviation.

 

[EminiTrader]

I'm the one with 15 year old tickets. This really sucks, because in my early 20s I drank quite a bit but never in my life have I been dependent. Just was careless when I *did* drink. I won't bore you with my current lifestyle but for sake of conversation just trust me when I say if I drink 3 beers in a week it was a real bender. Nobody would look at my life in the last 5-10 years and tell me I'm not trustable flying a plane. The Feds make you get "reprogrammed" as if you are flying a 737 with 150 people in back. This process kills my dream and does ZERO for aviation safety in my case.

As I get older, I hate government and its bureaucracy more and more.

The problem you are CLEARLY not getting is we KNOW you will not be flying 150 passengers. HOwever, on the ground where you COULD CRASH has THOUSANDS of people.

The FAA and most of us want nothing but safe, and sober pilots up there. The fact that you say "I can't have a beer once in awhile" to me scares me. The answer is F*CK NO you can't have a beer. The fact that you even consider it tells me you are not going to pull this off.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

I'm the one with 15 year old tickets. This really sucks, because in my early 20s I drank quite a bit but never in my life have I been dependent. Just was careless when I *did* drink. I won't bore you with my current lifestyle but for sake of conversation just trust me when I say if I drink 3 beers in a week it was a real bender. Nobody would look at my life in the last 5-10 years and tell me I'm not trustable flying a plane. The Feds make you get "reprogrammed" as if you are flying a 737 with 150 people in back. This process kills my dream and does ZERO for aviation safety in my case.

As I get older, I hate government and its bureaucracy more and more.

The government is very strict with airline pilots and it takes them a long time to get back in the air from one DWI. Some never do get back. Your statement of hating the government is immature. Your very lucky your still able to drive a car legally. You should have quit drinking long ago. Grow up.