Any CFIs here have to release a student?

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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Just curious to hear some stories.
Ever had a student you know was not flying material, or made mistakes to the point that you told them "they should not be flying" or "I am no longer willing to train you"?

What happened?
How did you let them know?
How did they react?

I've wondered about this. Lots of students talk about "firing" their CFI.
Curious about the other side of the coin.
 
I've had one student fire me with a pretty nasty emailed followed up by another email apologizing with a list of demands and expectations that I must agree to. I deemed the list to be unreasonable and cut him a check reembrusing him for what he had invested in my time. He eventually found another instructor and finished, although I suspect he may have learned to better commit to the activity.

Not every student and instructor fit is a good combination although for the most part I've never had an issue and help the students complete their goals.
 
I had one candidate for a multi-engine add-on who I realized had a lot of hazardous attitudes, was a bad pilot, and ultimately wouldn't listen to me but I figured would go buy a de-iced twin so he could take off in freezing rain and crash. Other instructors and locals who knew him felt similarly.

Conveniently, I was moving then so I was able to just say I was dropping all instruction and wished him luck. My thought was that would make it challenging enough for him to get his multi that he would stick to singles. Last I heard, it worked.

I've had other students who are genuinely awful pilots, but so long as they listen I typically try to help them improve.

Jesse is right that not all student/instructor combinations are good.
 
It's happened to me. You can try sending them up with another instructor hoping they will click where you did not, or you can work with them to analyze their issues and come up with a plan to resolve them, or you can keep flying with them until they finally give up on their own because they are not achieving the necessary levels of performance (which you have to make clear to them), But at some point you may have to explain to them that they are wasting their time and money if they continue in the training expecting to earn their license. I've heard of some folks who are happy to continue flying with an instructor without any expectation of earning that license, but those are rare. But as long as they are willing to pay to keep flying with me, and understand the situation, I'll keep flying with them.
 
I think we had a thread on this several years ago on the red board. The gist of it is that there aren't many students that are so bad and so unteachable that an instructor will release them.

I'll be the first to admit that I tested my CFI's patience time and again with hovering autos in an R22. I had a bad habit of jerking the cyclic when I rolled off the throttle. He would get so loud you couldn't hear the engine or rotors over his yelling.
 
I find you can often create a scenario that shows an applicant why he or she may not be fit for this.
 
The 'bowling speech' the girls always cry. Not given enough if you ask me.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
Worried? ;)
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HA! nah, I was just thinking.
I know a couple students. My former CFI recently revoked one of their solo signoffs because the guy had been flying just fine and everything was spot on.

Then they started doing XC work and the thermals were a little worse and gusts a little worse and he said the pilot got so scared that he locked up.

He basically said I can't have you soloing in the plane if that is a potential reaction.

I believe the student decided to "take a break" from training shortly after. I don't know the student real well, but I watched the "taking a break from flying" play out on FB
 
My CFI was working me and another student during my PPL training. He "fired" her mid training.

Back story was that the rich husband lost his medical and wanted wife to get her PPL so she could technically be PIC...but reality it was so that he could still fly.

My CFI said "I don't want my name on her ticket when she kills herself or someone else"

She was a bit of a train wreck.
 
I wanted to fire my CFII but I was so close to the check ride I gritted it out. Guy was there to build time, not teach. He was an ass and one day walked in, said I quit and walked out. Heard Skywest picked him up earlier that day.
 
I had a teenager that I refused to teach.
Well into his lessons, I sent him out to preflight the plane. He was back WAY too soon and I could tell he hadn't done a proper job. (The flaps weren't extended, gust lock still in place, pitot cover still on, etc.) I asked how much fuel was in it and he couldn't answer. So, he started all over, this time with me watching.
When he was done, we climbed into the plane and he took the keys and was ready to start the engine. I pointed to the checklist and said, "You are SO far away from starting!" He replied, "I'm not that into checklists. I'm ready to go."
I took the keys, got out of the plane, put the chocks on the wheels and told him I would not fly with him until he changed his attitude. I think he went up with another instructor from the school a week later, but never finished the course.

If he had shown any remorse, I might have continued with him, but he didn't. I made sure all the other instructors knew about the incident and were on the lookout for him.
 
Had two. Caught one picking up passengers at another airport when he got his solo endorsement.
 
jesse said:
I've had one student fire me with a pretty nasty emailed followed up by another email apologizing with a list of demands and expectations that I must agree to. I deemed the list to be unreasonable and cut him a check reembrusing him for what he had invested in my time. He eventually found another instructor and finished, although I suspect he may have learned to better commit to the activity.

Not every student and instructor fit is a good combination although for the most part I've never had an issue and help the students complete their goals.
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Good insite! Great judgment. :yes:
 
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I know a guy whose instructor back in the day would pull the throttle on the intro flight. If you panicked, then he wouldn't teach you.
 
Not enough do this and we end up with unsafe pilots in the airspace.
 
Thankfully I've only had one student that I didn't want my name in his logbook. Third lesson in started out with lying to me about doing homework. Couldn't even tell me what a stall was. I shrugged that off. During preflight, I asked him how much fuel we had. His response was "we have enough" but couldn't tell me how to read it. It's clearly numbered with see through tubes. I asked him if he thought this was important. He just shrugged. I then proceeded to show him to to read a number on a tube. Then I asked him how much oil we had. He told me again we had enough. By this time I was getting a little annoyed. I'm fine with not understanding something, but you have to ask. Don't just ignore checking it because you don't know how to read something. I very calmly asked him again if he felt like this would be important to know. He then throws the checklist on the seat and starts telling me he's sick of me telling him what to do all the time! Wow, well sorry but that's my job! He said he's never going to remember or read everything in those manuals anyways. This is also the same guy that told me the previous lesson that it was my job to talk on the radio, despite being at a class C airport, because he was getting his sport. I snuck in a trick and had him talk on the radio a bit that lesson. Long story short, I calmed him down and canceled the lesson. I explained the situation with my boss and he concluded that I did the right thing. A few days later, the customer talked with my boss on the phone. He walked out of the office shaking his head. Needless to say, he didn't come back and I remained to "tell people what to do."
 
JoeFromKS said:
I know a guy whose instructor back in the day would pull the throttle on the intro flight. If you panicked, then he wouldn't teach you.
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That's not fair. That would be the same as a non pilot having to fly a plane with an incapacitated pilot. Of course they're going to panic...they weren't trained.
 
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pete480 said:
That's not fair. That would be the same as a non pilot having to fly a plane with an incapacitated pilot. Of course they're going to panic...they weren't trained.
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Though I do see a logic in this. A person who tends to panic might not be the best material for a pilot, with or without training. But that is just my own personal opinion.
 
A person with no fear isn't a great pilot either. Putting someone in a position that they have no experience or training in, isn't necessarily indicative of either personality.
 
A CFI I know of recently fired a student for making solo flights he was not endorsed for.
 
bullwinkle said:
A CFI I know of recently fired a student for making solo flights he was not endorsed for.
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Well yeah, that is a pre solo discussion I always have. That or taking a passenger as a student and good luck finding another local CFI to help you finish.
 
bullwinkle said:
A CFI I know of recently fired a student for making solo flights he was not endorsed for.
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wow!
I am not a big bend/break the rules guy when it comes to flying.

Henning tells a story of 2 kids that were students.
They decided to fly together (no pax for students)

In their rush to get of the plane w/o getting caught, one walked into the prop.
 
ja_user said:
Well yeah, that is a pre solo discussion I always have. That or taking a passenger as a student and good luck finding another local CFI to help you finish.
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And these were not short "around the patch" flights. I believe one of them was 100+ miles landing at a Class C.
 
JoeFromKS said:
I know a guy whose instructor back in the day would pull the throttle on the intro flight. If you panicked, then he wouldn't teach you.
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That guy probably likes to do power on stalls and 60 degree turns with passengers on pleasure flights too.....
Really endears people to pursue aviation.

Reminds me of an "instructor" around here years ago. Wore his green C.A.P. zoomie-bag (flight suit) all the time. Victims would occasionally hire him for tail wheel endorsements or BFR's.
A gentleman I didn't know taxis on the ramp in a brand new Aviat Husky. He gets out, walks into the FBO, obviously upset about something.
He gets a Coke from the machine, walks in the lobby, and says "Damn my head is sore!"
I ask curiously why is your head sore? :confused:
He replies "I can't seem to do anything right today. That old man has slapped my head 10 times today!"
Now this guy is between 45-50 years old......
I guess he senses my confusion:eek::confused:
I look out the window, and here comes Captain Crunch himself from the Husky, zoomie-bag, crusher cap, silver wings, the whole nine yards:rofl:
He enters the building and tells the Husky owner "Come on stupid, I can't stand around here all day waiting on you to get dumber!" And walks back out to the plane.

Evidently, every time this guy didn't do what Crunch wanted he would slap him upside the head from the back seat.
I say to this gentleman "you know he is not the only tail wheel instructor around, don't you?"
He says " I know, but he is really a good guy.":confused:
 
What kind of moron would wear a sweatbag when he didn't have to?

He wasn't a "jolly green giant" by any chance? Even CAP makes fun of those.
 
I had to get rid of one. I got him with 90 hours. He couldn't communicate on a radio. He couldn't level off on the assigned altitude, he couldn't do much of anything at all on his own. I was with him 20 hours, every flight seemed like hour number 1. I passed him off to another instructor. I think after 175 hours he finally gave up.
 
MAKG1 said:
What kind of moron would wear a sweatbag when he didn't have to?

He wasn't a "jolly green giant" by any chance? Even CAP makes fun of those.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "jolly green giant". He wasn't a big guy at all, kinda small. Early to mid '60s. But he always showed up at the airport proudly sporting a fresh zoomie bag with every kind of CAP badge, patch, or insignia he could get on it and a blue officer's visor cap along with polished jungle boots! Liked for the "civilian pilots" or his victims, I mean students, to refer to him as
"Captain".

He earned the handle "Captain Crunch" by bending up a couple of his students' airplanes demonstrating his superior flying abilities.....

Real nice guy......:rolleyes:
 
Redneckpilot said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "jolly green giant". He wasn't a big guy at all, kinda small. Early to mid '60s. But he always showed up at the airport proudly sporting a fresh zoomie bag with every kind of CAP badge, patch, or insignia he could get on it and a blue officer's visor cap along with polished jungle boots! Liked for the "civilian pilots" or his victims, I mean students, to refer to him as
"Captain".

He earned the handle "Captain Crunch" by bending up a couple of his students' airplanes demonstrating his superior flying abilities.....

Real nice guy......:rolleyes:
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A jolly green giant is someone who wears the air force (green) flight suit without meeting the air force weight and grooming standards. The "distinctive" (blue) flight suit exists for that. Quite a number of us wear blue sweatbags to avoid shaving off beards. But never when we don't have to. Those are not at all comfy in warm weather.

CAPR 39-1 prohibits wearing any type of headgear on the flightline. Or to wear a uniform to advance a business. Give 'im hell. Sounds like he deserves it.
 
I once inherited a very nervous and "un-trainable" (other CFI's had refused him) flight school student - who would shake and shudder by just looking at an airplane . . .

Our first few "sessions", were spent doing nothing more than taxiing around the airfield until he became bored with it. Next few "lessons" were basically joy ride sight seeing sessions until he became bored with that . . . . Eventually he became relaxed, we got down to business, and he got licensed. . . . . Bill became a respectable pilot, not great, but respectable, well practised, and safe.
 
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jbermo said:
I once inherited a very nervous and "un-trainable" (other CFI's had refused him) flight school student - who would shake and shudder by just looking at an airplane . . .

Our first few "sessions", were spent doing nothing more than taxiing around the airfield until he became bored with it. Next few "lessons" were basically joy ride sight seeing sessions until he became bored with that . . . . Eventually he became relaxed, we got down to business, and he got licensed. . . . . Bill became a respectable pilot, not great, but respectable, well practised, and safe.
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That's awesome!
And welcome to POA.

What's your story?
 
Ahh, then I suppose it's a good sign that I've never heard of it :D
 
JoeFromKS said:
I know a guy whose instructor back in the day would pull the throttle on the intro flight. If you panicked, then he wouldn't teach you.
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lol

SixPapaCharlie said:
wow!
I am not a big bend/break the rules guy when it comes to flying.

Henning tells a story of 2 kids that were students.
They decided to fly together (no pax for students)

In their rush to get of the plane w/o getting caught, one walked into the prop.
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Chinese students, if I remember correctly.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I think so.

Calling Henning!
What was the deal again with those kids?
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As you stated previously, two Chinese solo students took a flight together, they stopped short of their ramp so as not to be seen, one got out and ran right into the prop.
 
I have, but it was a different kind of release.

Wait, what?
 
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