Another PPL charging question

cgrab

cgrab

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cgrab
A friend asked me to take some pictures of some property he plans to buy and offered to pay me. The fact that they were from the air is coincidental. Can I take his money?
 
I know now.

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In other words, your friend and you shared a common purpose in that both of you were wanting to look at the property from the air and he took pictures while the two of you did so and you want to know if he can offer his pro rata share and you will pay yours. Is that correct?
 
SkyDog58 said:
In other words, your friend and you shared a common purpose in that both of you were wanting to look at the property from the air and he took pictures while the two of you did so and you want to know if he can offer his pro rata share and you will pay yours. Is that correct?
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I don’t think his friend was with him in the airplane. Just selling the pictures he took himself while flying.
 
is he offering you money for "flying"? ..... maybe not legal.
or,,, is he offering you money for taking a picture? ..... sure,, thats just fine.
 
cgrab said:
A friend asked me to take some pictures of some property he plans to buy and offered to pay me. The fact that they were from the air is coincidental. Can I take his money?
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Best thing to do is get a drone and fly it over the house and take video and pictures. I need an excuse to fly like the next person but flying and being distracted while taking photos might or might not end well. Don't want to read about you in the NTSB reports.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I need an excuse to fly like the next person but flying and being distracted while taking photos might or might not end well. Don't want to read about you in the NTSB reports.
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Although that really has no bearing in the position of OP (of whether or not it’s distracting). People do aerial photography as part of their job.

In the end, do what you feel is the correct thing to do. @cgrab

Me personally, I don’t see a problem with it, as the flying and photos are two separate things. He didn’t pay for the flying, he’s paying for the photos.
 
Are the photos for commercial purposes, or they hobby pics for the friend who is considering purchasing the parcel?

My girlfriend takes tons of pictures while I'm flying. No issue. And some people make their youtube videos while flying. No issue.

So, if the guy pays for some of the flight cost and takes some pictures for his personal use there may not be a conflict.
 
Don't ask questions you don't want answered, and don't crash. Google a bit. FAA interpretations. 1995 White photography. 2010 Perry photography. Spoiler alert: you won't like what you find.

But don't let it stop you, if you can live with it. Hell, I plan to violate the law tonight. Puritanical laws regarding consensual acts among adults are still on the books, ya know.
 
cgrab said:
A friend asked me to take some pictures of some property he plans to buy and offered to pay me. The fact that they were from the air is coincidental. Can I take his money?
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How is it coincidental? Coincidental with what?
 
It would not be legal for you to do this in exchange for money.

It is perfectly legal for you to do this as a favor for your friend.

It is also perfectly legal for your friend to give you a gift or to do you a favor.

If these exchanges of gifts and favors are part of a frequent exchanging of such, with many instances, I don't think it's likely that this particular instance could be determined to be some sort of quid pro quo.

I'm not a lawyer, and you should not take legal advice from someone on the internet. But my non-legal advice would have a lot to do with learning to keep your mouth shut and avoiding incriminating posts, were I to give you advice, which, of course, I am not.
 
tlglenn said:
The flying is not incidental to the business of aerial photography. The flying is inherently part of the business. A commercial rating is required.

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/pic-archive/operations/aerial-photography
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Wrong interpretation of this scenario. OP never mentioned that these photos are to be used for a business of any kind thus invalidating it for a commercial purpose. If the photos are to be used for personal pleasure (hang on his wall etc.,) than this is completely legal and I see nothing prohibiting what is being asked of by the friend. Again, the flying is not being used for a commercial purpose, it’s being used for personal use.
 
Ryanb said:
Wrong interpretation of this scenario. OP never mentioned that these photos are to be used for a business of any kind thus invalidating it for a commercial purpose. If the photos are to be used for personal pleasure (hang on his wall etc.,) than this is completely legal and I see nothing prohibiting what is being asked of by the friend. Again, the flying is not being used for a commercial purpose, it’s being used for personal use.
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Not following at all. He is selling the photos. What happens to the photos after they have been sold is irrelevant.
 
There is/was a specific exemption in the regulations for aerial photography by a private pilot - and AOPA is actually wrong. The White interpretation from the FAA is 20 years old, but I believe is still accurate and the OP's example is permissible. If someone has a more recent example where the FAA CC has countermanded this, I would like to to see it. To quote:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/1995/white - (1995) legal interpretation.pdf
To the extent that your operation would be in furtherance of your own business of aerial photography or survey, and you are not carrying persons or property for compensation or hire, then you may do so holding a private pilot certificate. However, to the extent that your operation would involve operating your aircraft as an aerial platform for other photographers, etc., for compensation or hire, you would need to be the holder of at least a commercial pilot certificate in order to act as the pilot.
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Put more sufficiently, if you're the pilot and sole occupant and you take the pictures, sell whatever pictures you want. But you can't be the pilot for someone else taking the pictures.
 
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Just read the AOPA page more closely - they actually do not address the issue of sole pilot as photographer selling pictures. Their example is pilot providing an aerial platform for someone else to take pictures.

I'm going to stick with the OP's example being OK.
 
My reading up on the subject agrees with tlglenn about it not being ok.

However, I'd like to muck up the waters even more.

Let's say I, a private pilot who views photography (and aviation) as a hobby, go up in my plane and take some photos (for fun). I post the results online (lets say on Flickr) and someone offers me money to buy one of the photos. Can I sell the photo?
 
skier said:
Let's say I, a private pilot who views photography (and aviation) as a hobby, go up in my plane and take some photos (for fun). I post the results online (lets say on Flickr) and someone offers me money to buy one of the photos. Can I sell the photo?
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That's probably okay as you didn't make the flight with the intent to obtain compensation from it, but you could ask for an interpretation from the FAA :)
 
Thanks tlglenn, I'll give him the photos at lunch and not bring my wallet.
 
cgrab said:
Thanks tlglenn, I'll give him the photos at lunch and not bring my wallet.
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Now hang on there... you're going to fly solo, take the pictures, and be compensated? That doesn't smell right.
 
bflynn said:
Hmmm...a reversal. I didn't see this when I looked, thanks for catching it.

I'm not sure what the carve out for aerial photography in the regs means then.
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I believe it means that as a commercial pilot, you can do aerial photography without an air operator certificate. It doesn’t mean you can do it as a private pilot. There are many commercial operations that fall under part 91 rather than 121, 135, etc. However those operations still require a commercial pilot.
 
bflynn said:
I'm not sure what the carve out for aerial photography in the regs means then.
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I'm pretty sure it means "Keep your mouth shut and don't advertise" if you decide to take an occasional photo for someone for a few bucks.

If you intend to do so much of this that you will be advertising, or even just relying on word to get around, you'd better have a commercial license or use a drone instead. In the future, more and more of this stuff will be done by drones anyway.

(It would probably be unethical for me to suggest downloading a picture from Google Earth and selling it to your buddy as one that you had taken from your plane, and I'm sure you would never do such a crooked, underhanded, despicable thing...)
 
cgrab said:
A friend asked me to take some pictures of some property he plans to buy and offered to pay me. The fact that they were from the air is coincidental. Can I take his money?
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Step 1: Don't tell anyone.
Step 2: Don't post about it on the internet
Step 3: Don't Crash
Step 4: Don't take the money until after successful flight.
Step 5: Repeat Steps 1 and 2.
 
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