Another Opinion Thread - Car Related

Flying_Nun

Flying_Nun

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Flying_Nun
I've been all over the respective forums, YouTube, compared specs, etc. But I'd like to hear from you opinionated bastards. I plan to do some towing so if you have direct experience with that I want the low down.

Vehicles under consideration:

- 2016/17 VW Touareg Lux/Wolfsburg
- 2016/17 Honda Pilot Elite
- 2016/17 Ford Explorer Limited AWD V6

TIA

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I had a neighbor who owned a honda pilot and said the thing was loaded with cool stuff. but I hated that neighbor, he had two of the yappingest stoopidest little hound dogs that would not STFU therefore I'll never drive a honda pilot.

on a side note, what do you fly, nun?
 
VW we bought new was a total lemon. $13,500 in repairs in six years and when we traded it away it needed motor mounts. Stay away.

Never talked to anyone with a lemon Honda.

Explorer: Maybe good maybe bad. Watch out for turbo and intake issues if you go Ecoboost. Not worth that risk for the price tag IMHO. Ford engineers still don't have a long term fix for that problem. Can't clean the intake without destroying the turbo.
 
As the used parts guy, I agree with Nate about the VW's. For the entire product line something about their engineering isn't standing up to the long term test of time.

Explorers: Can't speak to the new ones (haven't seen one yet), but the older ones without the Eco were good ones... Popular around here. And if my request history says anything, I am not getting many calls for motors and transmissions. A few, but not as many as the Ford Truck motors.

Like Nate, I'm also not a fan of the Eco boost design to own.... But they do bring good coin when I sell that motor....

Honda has always been a solid design. It usually takes several years before a particular model's engine/transmission request activity starts moving off of the peg. That tells me folks are getting to at least their warranty expiration before problems start.
 
I'll have to go against @denverpilot on this one. I'd go for one of the fords with the ecoboost engines :D.

My neighbor just got a new Ford Expedition. Starts at $47,125 and has a towing capacity of 9,200 pounds. Pretty expensive, but a really nice car in my opinion.
 
Matthew K said:
I'll have to go against @denverpilot on this one. I'd go for one of the fords with the ecoboost engines :D.

My neighbor just got a new Ford Expedition. Starts at $47,125 and has a towing capacity of 9,200 pounds. Pretty expensive, but a really nice car in my opinion.
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I like them. They just need to stop dumping exhaust gasses directly into the intake without filtering because it trashes the intake and you can't safely clean it up because it'll destroy the turbo. It's BS driven by CAFE standards but that's no reason to engineer in a failure.
 
eman1200 said:
I had a neighbor who owned a honda pilot and said the thing was loaded with cool stuff. but I hated that neighbor, he had two of the yappingest stoopidest little hound dogs that would not STFU therefore I'll never drive a honda pilot.

on a side note, what do you fly, nun?
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My wife is currently driving our 4th VW. Most of them have been good.

Been flying DA-40s mostly (after a little layoff).


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Flying_Nun said:
- 2016/17 VW Touareg Lux/Wolfsburg
- 2016/17 Honda Pilot Elite
- 2016/17 Ford Explorer Limited AWD V6
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The Touareg is getting on in years. The last redesign was 7 years ago. Plus it's heavy and not very efficient with either fuel or interior space.

The Pilot looks like a minivan. If you want something that looks like a minivan, just get a minivan. Plus, its 9-speed transmission seems to get a whole lot of hate due to laggy and indecisive shifts.

I haven't heard much bad about the Explorer, so it wins by default.
 
denverpilot said:
VW we bought new was a total lemon. $13,500 in repairs in six years and when we traded it away it needed motor mounts. Stay away.

Never talked to anyone with a lemon Honda.

Explorer: Maybe good maybe bad. Watch out for turbo and intake issues if you go Ecoboost. Not worth that risk for the price tag IMHO. Ford engineers still don't have a long term fix for that problem. Can't clean the intake without destroying the turbo.
Click to expand...

Only looking at normally aspirated engines.

Currently driving a '14 Accord. Oil changes, tires, and a new battery are all I've done to it. Local dealer is now offering lifetime drivetrain warranties free on new Hondas. Nice incentive.


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denverpilot said:
VW we bought new was a total lemon. $13,500 in repairs in six years and when we traded it away it needed motor mounts. Stay away.
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Six years? Was there some overriding factor that forced you to keep it? I would have had it at CarMax after 1-2 years. Or was the $13.5k all in the 12th month of year #6?
 
asicer said:
The Touareg is getting on in years. The last redesign was 7 years ago. Plus it's heavy and not very efficient with either fuel or interior space.

The Pilot looks like a minivan. If you want something that looks like a minivan, just get a minivan. Plus, its 9-speed transmission seems to get a whole lot of hate due to laggy and indecisive shifts.

I haven't heard much bad about the Explorer, so it wins by default.
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The Pilot's styling and what I've read about the 9 speed ZF transmission are what give me pause. I drove one yesterday and it was nice. But it didn't make me have to have it.

To be honest, if I had the coin I'd be in a Yukon Denali.


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Buy a Pilot, only because they're built in Alabama. Plus you're a pilot, so you'd be driving a Pilot among the earthlings when you're ground bound. Cool huh.
 
Wife has a 2014 Explorer. It had to have its gear shifter replaced under warranty, I think because my wife uses it as an armrest. Other than that it's been flawless.

Hers is a V6 Limited. She wanted the Limited, I asked why, she said because it had cooled seats. When a lady gets to a certain age, cooled seats are a must.

If I had it to do over I'd get it again.
 
asicer said:
Six years? Was there some overriding factor that forced you to keep it? I would have had it at CarMax after 1-2 years. Or was the $13.5k all in the 12th month of year #6?
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Amazingly even though we never buy them, for some reason the dealership offered a third party warranty extension that had a TOTAL cost of $350. I was floored. And bought it on the spot.

It paid for all $13,500 in repairs over that timeframe. Well I think into the fifth year, anyway. It was so bad for the warranty company they sent an investigator out to check that the VW dealer wasn't running a repair scam when the transmission failed and needed to be dropped and completely replaced with a new one.

The investigator was impressed... the dealership had excellent records, had kept all diagnostic information for every repair and logged everything to a "T". He said he was amazed that it was so cut and dried that the vehicle was just a piece of crap, and his employer was out $13,500 minus $350. LOL.

Sunroof motor, multiple plastic tanks under the hood cracking and failing, both the intake and exhaust manifolds cracked, complete transmission failure, traction control computer failure ... those are just the ones I remember. We also had car rental coverage for loss of vehicle use with our auto insurer at the time, and the joke with our agent was both, "What now?" And "Your wife didn't know she'd be driving an Enterprise rental car every month when she bought that car, did she?" LOL.

It was a serious POS. But with someone else footing the bill, it was only a minor inconvenience to drop it off and grab keys to the rental car regularly. Haha. The local Enterprise place had vehicles always at the ready sitting at the VW dealer, AND the dealer happily lost three parking spots to them continuously, and had a great discounted rate on Enterprise rentals, if that says anything.

We didn't care -- we just turned in whatever Enterprise charged to our insurance back then. But I suspect the other VW customers appreciated the rentals always sitting there.

I think by year three, we were just impressed at how much stuff could break on the thing and since we weren't paying, we kept it mostly out of curiosity to see if something else would break.
 
301pn2c.jpg
I got no dog in this hunt but thought I would provide you with the greatest thing you can do when buying a new/used car. Tear off all the old badging and replace with Mercedes Benz. You're welcome.
 
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Pilot with one exception. Avoid the ZF tranny if all possible. I think the elite has it but not sure. Lots of complaints from several mfgs on this unit with not/so/smooth shifts. Current motor trend magazine has a long term test on the pilot. Through software the tranny shifting issue will get addressed, just taking time. Acura and Jeep using this same unit have the same results.

3.5l v6 is indestructible. Rock solid motor. My last one rode 200k miles with only timing belt services performed. Easy and cheap to service. Change tranny fluid every 30k and it will go to 200 easily. One drain bolt - it is that easy.

VW - no way. Too many issues. Reliability is not at peer levels.

Explorer - better than old model but still not as strong as the Honda motor. Quality has improved. With ForScan software it is easy to hack the vehicle and change configurations if you desire.

Good luck with your decision.
 
Ford Explorer with non-Eco V6. It will have more creature comforts and tech features than the other two, dollar for dollar. It also looks the best of the bunch, in my opinion.

Honda Pilot is reliable, but boring as can be. It's probably the most expensive of the bunch at equal trim levels.

The VW I wouldn't bother with because it's such a crapshoot on if you'll get a decent car or a never ending list of problems, like most everything VW makes. It looks better than the Pilot, though.


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Flying_Nun said:
The Pilot's styling and what I've read about the 9 speed ZF transmission are what give me pause. I drove one yesterday and it was nice. But it didn't make me have to have it.

To be honest, if I had the coin I'd be in a Yukon Denali.


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Click to expand...

Yukon/Tahoe gets one of the worst ride/overall ratings of the full-size group, even though they have the best appearance of them all, Escalade not withstanding.


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My only opinion is a heck no to a VW. If the explorer is eco boost and you want to tow that's the only option imo. If it isn't I think I would look more at the pilot.
 
We just went through this process in July. Out top choices were the Toureg, Audi Q7, Honda Pilot, or Toyota Highlander.

I didn't want a Ford Explorer because I have one as a work car. It's been great though & I really like it. It's a 2013 with 218,000 miles & has never been in the shop. I sell John Deere for a living & it's been out in the fields a bunch. I've never been able to get the darned thing stuck!

After we drove then all we liked the VW best. We didn't however like the depreciation.

We bought the Toyota Highlander & we are very pleased with it. It's quieter than the Explorer & we feel it drives better. The ironic thing is, it was the lest expensive of all the ones we drove.

YMMV.
 
Flying_Nun said:
To be honest, if I had the coin I'd be in a Yukon Denali.
Click to expand...

SoonerAviator said:
Yukon/Tahoe gets one of the worst ride/overall ratings of the full-size group, even though they have the best appearance of them all, Escalade not withstanding.
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LOL. I have to go with @SoonerAviator on this one, and I own and drive a Yukon. Chevy hasn't updated the drivetrain or real tech in these trucks since the early 2000's. The truck is almost two decades old. There's no significant difference between my '04 and a new one. And this same truck was available in '01.

The Yukon XL only survives because Ford exited the market and killed the Expedition, which is what they should bring back, with a diesel.

Ford has made some mistakes but at least they're trying things. Chevy runs commercials showing 20 year old designs and "JD Power Initial Quality Awards". Great. It has "initial quality"... so does everything the day it drives off of the lot. How about "day two quality"? LMAO.

Chevy died when they went bankrupt. They haven't recovered. If you want a twenty year old design, they're your manufacturer! LOL!

I laughed when I saw a new Silverado tonight. Same truck, new headlights and fancy taillights. Not a single new real design change since 2001.

Boring, or tried-and-true... not sure what you'd call it, but I wouldn't put new money into a Chevy/GMC. Not until they show signs of life.
 
VW is a criminal company.

Flagrantly criminal.

Buy the Honda or Ford instead.
 
NoHeat said:
VW is a criminal company.

Flagrantly criminal.

Buy the Honda or Ford instead.
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Technically GM is also, but I wasn't going to go there. Just ask their bondholders.* LOL.

Out of all the US manufacturers, only Ford deserves the dollars of a moral person. I know. Pretty strong statement, but it's an opinion and I'm entitled to it.

* Another reason besides their designs being dead as a doornail that I wouldn't hand GMC a dime.
 
denverpilot said:
LOL. I have to go with @SoonerAviator on this one, and I own and drive a Yukon. Chevy hasn't updated the drivetrain or real tech in these trucks since the early 2000's. The truck is almost two decades old. There's no significant difference between my '04 and a new one. And this same truck was available in '01.

The Yukon XL only survives because Ford exited the market and killed the Expedition, which is what they should bring back, with a diesel.

Ford has made some mistakes but at least they're trying things. Chevy runs commercials showing 20 year old designs and "JD Power Initial Quality Awards". Great. It has "initial quality"... so does everything the day it drives off of the lot. How about "day two quality"? LMAO.

Chevy died when they went bankrupt. They haven't recovered. If you want a twenty year old design, they're your manufacturer! LOL!

I laughed when I saw a new Silverado tonight. Same truck, new headlights and fancy taillights. Not a single new real design change since 2001.

Boring, or tried-and-true... not sure what you'd call it, but I wouldn't put new money into a Chevy/GMC. Not until they show signs of life.
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Ford killed the Excursion, not the Expedition. They have an Expedition EL which is essentially an Excursion/Suburban/Yukon XL. I don't like the appearance of the Expedition very much, but have driven a '15 w/EcoBoost V6 and it was pretty snappy for such a big vehicle.

I think GM had gotten better since around '12 or so, but I still think their electronics are their major pitfall. Lots of body-control modules/fuel pump relays, etc. that seem to plague them. That, and Active Cylinder Management causes every one of their motors to eat oil. They need to abandon that crap altogether.


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SoonerAviator said:
Yukon/Tahoe gets one of the worst ride/overall ratings of the full-size group, even though they have the best appearance of them all, Escalade not withstanding.


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I've rented one a couple of times for longer trips and thought they were fine. Definitely truck like but what do you expect?


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retpd2001 said:
Chevy or GMC Duramax with an Allison transmission for my vote!
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My dad had a Ram 2500 with the Cummins that I wanted. He sold it without giving me a chance at it. Truck isn't in the cards now. Need a people mover.


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Flying_Nun said:
I've rented one a couple of times for longer trips and thought they were fine. Definitely truck like but what do you expect?


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It's not my review, I was speaking of the many auto critic reviews on the latest models. The ones that do get some praise are the models with the magnetic suspension (like the Escalade).


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SoonerAviator said:
What are you towing? Weight?


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Nothing yet. A boat of 21' or less would be the biggest thing I have planned. The occasional small trailer of landscaping materials.


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I have a Pilot.
I like it. Runs great and tows my motorcycle trailer and RC plane trailer easily.
But if you are towing something heavy, get something with a V8 or a diesel.
 
If you do consider a Tahoe/Yukon look for 2010's and up. They got a 6 speed auto compared to the old 4 speed. I would recommend a Yukon Denali. The 6.2 is a total beast and gets basically the same gas mileage as the 5.3.
 
Well, if a 21' boat is in the cards, assuming a runabout model, you're looking at 5K lbs all loaded up including trailer for most of them. I'd think the Explorer would be maxed out, as well as the Honda Pilot and VW. You'll need a Durango, Expedition, Sequoia, Armada, or Tahoe/Yukon to do the work in that case.


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SoonerAviator said:
Well, if a 21' boat is in the cards, assuming a runabout model, you're looking at 5K lbs all loaded up including trailer for most of them. I'd think the Explorer would be maxed out, as well as the Honda Pilot and VW. You'll need a Durango, Expedition, Sequoia, Armada, or Tahoe/Yukon to do the work in that case.


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This is the dilemma. The size/class of vehicle I want is limited in tow capacity. The Touareg is rated to 7,700 lbs but the V6 seems a bit small for that.

Not a fan of Toyota or Nissan.

Why doesn't anyone make a mid-size SUV with a 250 HP, 400 ft lb torque diesel that will tow 8,000 lbs?


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Depends on how far and how often you want to tow. Just to pull a 3000lb boat from the barn to the marina in spring and back in the fall you don't need a V10 Excursion. I have towed 4500lb with my little Nissan pickup and while you do notice that its there on steep hills, for occasional use the V6 is entirely sufficient.

Out of the three options I would go with the Ford. The Pilot is a minivan and I wouldn't tow with a VW tranny.
 
I'd be less concerned about the engine, and more concerned about transmission/brakes. We used to tow a 20' runabout with an XJ Jeep using 4.0L inline 6. It moved the load well, but was much less steady in crosswinds and emergency stops. That's where the full-size SUVs will easily outshine their mid-size counterparts. You might look at the new Durango as a decent compromise.


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