Another Ipad Question

NovemberZulu

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Zulu
Apologies in advance for starting another ipad thread but I haven't had any luck finding this.

I was thinking about getting an ipad mini for flying. The upfront cost of an ipad doesn't bother me too much provided it will last a few years. I have wifi access at home and on the ground at the airport for last minute weather checks, but do I need to pay for a monthly data plan to use an app like Foreflight in flight?
 
No, but get the cellular version because it includes the built in GPS chip. If you by wifi only, you will need to buy an external gps.

You don't have to activate the cellular plan( although you can turn it on and off as necessary).
 
I bought the iPad mini cellular/wi fi version. You don't need the cellular, but is nice to have and you can't add it on after you by the iPad. I also have a data plan for convenience when I use the mini away from a wifi, but the plan is not necessary for flights. You will need an external GPS for better coverage. I use a Sratus 2, but bought my son a Dual 160.
 
If you get it from T-Mobile, you can get a _free_ low use plan. Not free as in pay a few dollars for taxes or somesuch, just plain free. The plan is really small, something like 200MB/month, not even enough to download a full set of charts but probably enough to get the weather once in a while if you find yourself unable to use WiFi.
 
You will need an external GPS for better coverage.

I've never had an issue with the built in GPS and I've owned two iPads now, a one and a four.

Maybe it's a "northern extreme" thing...or maybe it's a mini thing...dunno...but I've been all over with both of mine and never had a blip.
 
I bought the iPad without the 3G/4G service for $299. I also didn't want any kind of data plan. I also bought a Bad Elf GPS from Amazon for $76.

I can't find any free plan at T-Mobile.com, so I called them, and the agent didn't know anything about a free limited data plan either. If there is one, I'm guessing it's an introductory thing that will go to paid service after 6 mo or a year. I guess I could get the 3G/4G iPad and just not enable it, but since it cost another $100 with built in GPS, I don't see the benefit. Another reason I didn't get the internal GPS is that it's not WAAS capable which isn't any kind of deal breaker, but in areas of limited GPS resolution, the WAAS feature is pretty useful.

<edit: another reason I didn't get the cell coverage is that I carry my cell phone with a data plan everywhere I go, and for any kind of data needs when not in a wifi zone, I can just use my Android Note with data plan. No reason to pay for two, and ATT/Verizon won't let people share data plans with two devices except for the family deal where there's a charge for each connected device per month.>
 
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I have a mini.
No data plan and yes I use ForeFlight.

I did get the 'free' T-Mobile option, although I have not yet used it.
Do you have an iPhone? Many people check final weather, etc via ForeFlight on their iPhone, thus also not requiring a Data plan on the ipad.
 
I bought the iPad without the 3G/4G service for $299. I also didn't want any kind of data plan. I also bought a Bad Elf GPS from Amazon for $76.

I can't find any free plan at T-Mobile.com, so I called them, and the agent didn't know anything about a free limited data plan either. If there is one, I'm guessing it's an introductory thing that will go to paid service after 6 mo or a year. I guess I could get the 3G/4G iPad and just not enable it, but since it cost another $100 with built in GPS, I don't see the benefit. Another reason I didn't get the internal GPS is that it's not WAAS capable which isn't any kind of deal breaker, but in areas of limited GPS resolution, the WAAS feature is pretty useful.
http://www.t-mobile.com/landing/free-mobile-internet-data.html has details on the plan; they say it's not introductory -- "free data for life. Yes, free. Yes, for life.". The "catch" though appears to be that you might have to have a T-Mo voice line; I'm not sure.
 
http://www.t-mobile.com/landing/free-mobile-internet-data.html has details on the plan; they say it's not introductory -- "free data for life. Yes, free. Yes, for life.". The "catch" though appears to be that you might have to have a T-Mo voice line; I'm not sure.

Looks like that will work for me. If I take my iPad back and get the 3G wireless one, I can sign up and get a SIM card for just 99 cents.

Thanks, wonder why the lady at T-Mobile can't find it. Strange.
 
I've never had an issue with the built in GPS and I've owned two iPads now, a one and a four.

Maybe it's a "northern extreme" thing...or maybe it's a mini thing...dunno...but I've been all over with both of mine and never had a blip.

Same here.

If you otherwise have a smart phone with a data plan, there really is no advantage to duplicating it on your Ipad. If I need in flight weather at my destination, I can just dial it up on the Iphone, as you can have Foreflight running on both your phone and tablet. One nice thing about having data enabled as that it will use real time winds in computing flight segment times, but, again, if you really want to dial it in that accurately, you can pull it up on your phone.
 
http://www.t-mobile.com/landing/free-mobile-internet-data.html has details on the plan; they say it's not introductory -- "free data for life. Yes, free. Yes, for life.". The "catch" though appears to be that you might have to have a T-Mo voice line; I'm not sure.

Warning - The quantity of free data is only 200MB, or 0.2 GB. After that, you will need to pay more.

I'm a light user (I think) and I use about 1.5 GB per month.
 
I've got the cell version, and I have it added to my AT&T mobile share family plan for $10 per month. I've but 10gb of data between two phones and the iPad which is more than enough.
 
Apologies in advance for starting another ipad thread but I haven't had any luck finding this.

I was thinking about getting an ipad mini for flying. The upfront cost of an ipad doesn't bother me too much provided it will last a few years. I have wifi access at home and on the ground at the airport for last minute weather checks, but do I need to pay for a monthly data plan to use an app like Foreflight in flight?

Here's what to consider:

First of all storage is not upgradeable. The ForeFlight folks recommend at least 32GB, and I concur. If you're only using it for flying, that's probably enough - But my personal MO when buying electronics is to buy maximum memory and storage right off the bat, as usually by the time you need more, it's not worth upgrading the device. This strategy has served me well in that my devices last a lot longer without needing to be replaced. (I figure if I buy 3x what everyone is saying to buy, that's about right.)

As for data, there are two things to consider: The capability of the hardware, and the data plan itself.

As for the hardware, the WiFi-only iPads do not have an internal GPS, while the cellular-capable ones do. Of course, for the price difference, you can buy a GPS and if you're planning on getting a Stratus or other ADS-B + WAAS GPS device, then you don't really need the internal GPS and you can put the money you save toward the external device. However, that is an additional potential point of failure, and you'll have another device you need to keep charged up.

For the data plan, you do NOT need to have a data plan for the internal GPS to work, nor do you need it for EFB software such as ForeFlight to work in flight - Really, getting data in-flight via the cell networks is quite unreliable. The EFB apps allow you to download the charts you'll need on the ground (on your wifi) prior to flying so that they're stored locally on the device and you don't need an Internet connection while flying.

Having a Stratus or other ADS-B device can give you weather in the cockpit via ADS-B, MUCH more reliable than trying to get it with a cellular data plan in flight, and if you do this, again, you don't need a data plan.

Where a data plan is most useful is when you're at an airport away from home, on the ground where ADS-B doesn't work well in most places, and there's no wifi. The cellular data plan will allow you to do your preflight weather check and planning, file a flight plan, etc. when there isn't a WiFi hot spot around.

If you have a cell phone with a data plan that will act as a WiFi hot spot there isn't any reason to have a cellular data plan. If you also have an external GPS, there isn't any reason other than redundancy to have the cellular-capable iPad.

Hope this helps!
 
Here's what to consider:

First of all storage is not upgradeable. The ForeFlight folks recommend at least 32GB, and I concur.

However, that is an additional potential point of failure, and you'll have another device you need to keep charged up.


Where a data plan is most useful is when you're at an airport away from home, on the ground where ADS-B doesn't work well in most places, and there's no wifi. The cellular data plan will allow you to do your preflight weather check and planning, file a flight plan, etc. when there isn't a WiFi hot spot around.


Hope this helps!

After contacting Foreflight, they are telling me that the whole US DB will take just under 11GB. that's charts, plates, taxi, program, swap file. That leaves a whopping +4GB for other stuff. I'm sure it can be filled with stuff if people want, but the whole US will fit on one 16GB unit. More is better, but it's also more money. If it's too much, some sections can be left off.

The Bad Elf GPS unit plugs into the bottom of the iPad, does not need a charge by itself. Even better, it has a mini-USB port so that an external USB to mini-USB can be plugged into the side of the GPS and provide power to the iPad. My concern is the power draw for the large iPad. I don't know what the power req are. Also adds WAAS.

As I have the data plan on my Android Note, I can do anything network with that.
 
You'll have less than 4GB free after file system losses and the operating system takes up a chunk. It'll barely fit and won't allow for in-place downloads to switch over automatically at the FAA release date.

Sounds like you either need to go less than CONUS or get a 32GB device.
 
Another thing to consider is that data updates are actually available before the existing map data expires. So if you have 11G of map data in Foreflight and decide to update before the data expires you will need 22G of space. If you don't have room then you have to wait until the data expires in which case the new data replaces the old data.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
I've got 16, I'm keeping 16. More is better. More is more money. Infinite would be best.
 
After contacting Foreflight, they are telling me that the whole US DB will take just under 11GB. that's charts, plates, taxi, program, swap file. That leaves a whopping +4GB for other stuff. I'm sure it can be filled with stuff if people want, but the whole US will fit on one 16GB unit. More is better, but it's also more money. If it's too much, some sections can be left off.

Right, but you'll only have ~13GB that are available for you to use - the OS and such will eat up a bit of your 16.

Also, keep in mind that during the cycle overlaps, you're going to be storing double that amount, which is the reason ForeFlight suggests at least 32G. Otherwise, you'll need to either select only part of the country, or not go flying on Thursday mornings. :D

My concern is the power draw for the large iPad. I don't know what the power req are. Also adds WAAS.

1 amp *might* maintain the charge you started with, provided your backlight isn't on full brightness and the Bad Elf doesn't suck down too much juice. You'll need at least a 2.1-amp port if you want it to charge.

There could be an entire thread on powering these gadgets in the cockpit...
 
I've got 16, I'm keeping 16. More is better. More is more money. Infinite would be best.

Right, but you'll only have ~13GB that are available for you to use - the OS and such will eat up a bit of your 16.

In addition to this and other posted reasons for needing more than a 16GB model if you plan to load 11GB of FF onto it: updates to the OS (which happen a few times a year) require you to have a few GB free for that download too.

Like all pieces of computer equipment, you really do not want your plan to be to use >90% (maybe less) of the memory (either RAM or storage)... they need that buffer for extras from time to time.
 
In addition to this and other posted reasons for needing more than a 16GB model if you plan to load 11GB of FF onto it: updates to the OS (which happen a few times a year) require you to have a few GB free for that download too.

Like all pieces of computer equipment, you really do not want your plan to be to use >90% (maybe less) of the memory (either RAM or storage)... they need that buffer for extras from time to time.

This is true. I have a couple friends who bought the smaller model and they are forced to do updates tethered, because they don't have the space.
 
I have a wifi with GPS IPad with no data plan. I have FF on it as well as my IPhone 5c. I have a 4G plan on my IPhone and tether the IPad in flight. This gives me low altitude, in flight update for the IPad, and of course the IPhone. I typically only use the IPad in flight with the IPhone mounted on the yoke as the data source and a FF backup.

I have no external GPS receiver and have never experienced any trouble having a good GPS fix. I think in certain parts of the world, however, GPS signals are more prominent, so I am probably in one of the parts of the world where this is so.
 
I have a 16G wifi+cellular and I use an external GPS(Dual 160) in flight.

I have automatic updates disabled and just update FF on the ground at home. I haven't had any issues with space and I do have a number of other apps too. Not a ton of free room though. Should have gone 32G... But at the time I was trying not to spend so much on flying(HA!)...

If I look at useage, it shows 3.4 GB for ForeFlight. Not sure why it's so low... I probably don't have everything downloaded that I could, IE no approach plates, only have AFD/VFR charts/Taxi diragrams for the midwest states, etc....
 
I can use my phone for weather, so it sounds like the data plan won't be needed.

I had been planning to get 32g since I don't see much need for an ipad other than flying. But if I want it to last a few years it may make more sense to get more since I will probably find stuff to fill it up.

Sounds like most people are fine with just using the internal gps on the cellular version. Anyone else with an external gps like badelf? What do you think of it?
 
This is true. I have a couple friends who bought the smaller model and they are forced to do updates tethered, because they don't have the space.

I knew 16GB would be enough so got 32GB. But went to 64GB the next time I upgraded.....and 128GB the last time I upgraded.

I finally feel like I have "enough"...for now.
 
I had been planning to get 32g since I don't see much need for an ipad other than flying. But if I want it to last a few years it may make more sense to get more since I will probably find stuff to fill it up.

My thoughts initially. But the longer I've had the more things I've found I can't live without on it. It's with me all day every day, and is used often throughout the day. They truly are an amazingly useful device.
 
1 amp *might* maintain the charge you started with, provided your backlight isn't on full brightness and the Bad Elf doesn't suck down too much juice. You'll need at least a 2.1-amp port if you want it to charge.



There could be an entire thread on powering these gadgets in the cockpit...


I think I could rig up something that provides 2.1A at 208VAC out of a "port". I don't know if the 182 can carry it all though. How long will it take to charge an iPad on that?

:) :) :)

(Just pointing out the amps without volts is meaningless. But we'll assume you meant "at USB power spec voltages". Which is, of course, 5VDC. Heh. Heh.)
 
Sounds like most people are fine with just using the internal gps on the cellular version. Anyone else with an external gps like badelf? What do you think of it?

I have the Dual XGPS160, and I like it. I've flown with it a few times, and it works fine. I prefer to use it even though my iPad has an internal GPS. The two advantages are WAAS and direct connection to FF.
 
For what it's worth - the built-in GPS versus the external GPS is airplane and position in the airplane dependent. As a knee board in my Waco, I need external. On the glare shield or even my lap in the Citabria internal works fine.
 
Internal GPS isnt bad on the iPad. Get a RAM Mount for the windshield!



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I have a wifi with GPS IPad with no data plan. I have FF on it as well as my IPhone 5c. I have a 4G plan on my IPhone and tether the IPad in flight. This gives me low altitude, in flight update for the IPad, and of course the IPhone.

Do not rely on the ability to receive in-flight weather updates via this method - Cell signal in the sky is highly unreliable.

I have no external GPS receiver and have never experienced any trouble having a good GPS fix. I think in certain parts of the world, however, GPS signals are more prominent, so I am probably in one of the parts of the world where this is so.

GPS is roughly the same everywhere - It's satellite based, so no worries about being able to get signals in rural/undeveloped areas.

If I look at useage, it shows 3.4 GB for ForeFlight. Not sure why it's so low... I probably don't have everything downloaded that I could, IE no approach plates, only have AFD/VFR charts/Taxi diragrams for the midwest states, etc....

That's why. I'm in the 3.x GB range as well, downloading everything but only for 6 states (WI, IL, IN, IA, MN, MI). If you download all the data for all the states, it'll be significantly more.
 
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