Another gripe

[N5922S]

I'm sure this must have been mentioned at some time, but I haven't seen it.

"Nowhere County traffic, Crashmaster 1234X ten minutes out, landing full stop."

What direction is "out"?
How far is 10 minutes?
"Full stop" is superfluous unless you've been doing T&Gs.

Notice I didn't mention "Any traffic please advise"?

 

[rottydaddy]

I'm sure this must have been mentioned at some time, but I haven't seen it.

"Nowhere County traffic, Crashmaster 1234X ten minutes out, landing full stop."

What direction is "out"?
How far is 10 minutes?
"Full stop" is superfluous unless you've been doing T&Gs.

Notice I didn't mention "Any traffic please advise"?

I dont let it get to me anymore. Even with more specific info, these calls are mire often than not just plain wrong. Wrong bearing, wrong time or distance, wrong landmark, etc etc.

 

[rottydaddy]

...which is not to say it's NEVER done right... but my attitude, usually, is "sure buddy, I'll just wait till I see you."

 

[N801BH]

Personally.... If I hear something like that, it gives me a heads up on an inbound flight..... That radio call took 4 seconds,,,, I can deal with that..... YMMV.

 

[Meanee]

It's better than dead silence following by some bozo landing straight in without as much as saying a single word.

 

[jtheune]

I've heard and made 10 miles out calls but I've never heard anyone say 10 minutes out before

 

[Threefingeredjack]

It's better than dead silence following by some bozo landing straight in without as much as saying a single word.

Most "heads up" calls I hear at least have a direction from the field. I always give direction, distance, and time to arrival, which the magic box can give me.

 

[oldShar]

What is worse are those times when aircraft reports:
" 5 miles inbound straight in RWY xx " (and the guy is over the middle marker)
{so the guy on base looks up final just as he is about to collide with the caller over the marker}

 

[N801BH]

What is worse are those times when aircraft reports:
" 5 miles inbound straight in RWY xx " (and the guy is over the middle marker)
{so the guy on base looks up final just as he is about to collide with the caller over the marker}

Better then dead silence.... IMHO... YMMV....

 

[Edgefly]

Think that's bad ? Take enough time to listen to "The PROS" at a class B. You can hear in real time the Heavy Iron jocks make every possible misuse of air communications you have ever heard of. Guess no one cares, you never hear of any corrective action being taken....Have to take that back. I haven't any real foul profanity from them. The ATC people seem to be much better.

 

[Geico266]

I'm sure this must have been mentioned at some time, but I haven't seen it.

"Nowhere County traffic, Crashmaster 1234X ten minutes out, landing full stop."

What direction is "out"?
How far is 10 minutes?
"Full stop" is superfluous unless you've been doing T&Gs.

Notice I didn't mention "Any traffic please advise"?

Full stop tells everyone your intentions. It is good info.

 

[Norman]

I'm sure this must have been mentioned at some time, but I haven't seen it.

"Nowhere County traffic, Crashmaster 1234X ten minutes out, landing full stop."

What direction is "out"?
How far is 10 minutes?
"Full stop" is superfluous unless you've been doing T&Gs.

Notice I didn't mention "Any traffic please advise"?

1: Out of reality.
2: Depends on whether you're flying a blimp or an F-16.

I worked at a towered airport for many years, and it wasn't just students who failed to use proper phraseology. Lots of old timers did it too.

"NXXX tower, Cessna 12345 10 miles west landing" would suffice. IMO, full stop was a waste of air time.

 

[wabower]

Does participation in the Unicom Gestapo require the purchase of a uniform?

 

[Threefingeredjack]

Does participation in the Unicom Gestapo require the purchase of a uniform?

No, but there IS a $500 membership fee. I'll send my address by PM.

 

[nosehair]

I love America

 

[Graueradler]

It is also of use to line people to know what you are going to do after you land. We not infrequently stand there waiting to park someone who then taxis back without coming on the ramp, is doing a T&G, or is taxiing direct to some ones hangar.

 

[rottydaddy]

Does participation in the Unicom Gestapo require the purchase of a uniform?

No, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to use the frequency properly (meaning accurately, relevantly, and succinctly), nor is it unreasonable to ***** about those who don't.
I've had some nasty surprises and close shaves, thanks to vague or wildly speculative position/intention reports.
And I've heard or seen much worse stuff happen than happened to me. So I take this problem seriously.

Then there's the...

"Cowboy controller": somebody on the ground who's giving ceilings, wind and "active runway" reports. "Horseback" reports, without benefit of any sort of instruments, or any sort of authority.
"Lost soul": actually taking off or landing at some other airport with the same CTAF freq... or basically just mistaken about his position or altitude. The "cowboy controller" could get him killed if he listens to him.

"Rebel": goes NORDO, which would be OK if he didn't do everything in nonstandard and startling ways. When he does use a radio, it doesn't help much.
"Storyteller"... this one seems to think he's an ultra-cool airline captain addressing his pax on the PA, or maybe someone who has a speech impediment of some kind. Many pilots get "mic fright", too, so things can drag on a bit. Whatever their problem, they take so damn long you can't make your initial callup until you are on top of the airport.
"Machine whisperer": keys the CTAF-using automated weather report despite the fact that three others have listened to it in the past 10 minutes.
"Chatty hens": the ones who blither and blather with their friends on the CTAF as if it were their personal party line.

 

[wabower]

Why not just sign up for membership on getalife.com rather than bitching about something you can't control while the guy you're ****ed at has no idea of your grievances and no intention of changing the way he does it?

No, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to use the frequency properly (meaning accurately, relevantly, and succinctly), nor is it unreasonable to ***** about those who don't.
I've had some nasty surprises and close shaves, thanks to vague or wildly speculative position/intention reports.
And I've heard or seen much worse stuff happen than happened to me. So I take this problem seriously.

Then there's the...

"Cowboy controller": somebody on the ground who's giving ceilings, wind and "active runway" reports. "Horseback" reports, without benefit of any sort of instruments, or any sort of authority.
"Lost soul": actually taking off or landing at some other airport with the same CTAF freq... or basically just mistaken about his position or altitude. The "cowboy controller" could get him killed if he listens to him.

"Rebel": goes NORDO, which would be OK if he didn't do everything in nonstandard and startling ways. When he does use a radio, it doesn't help much.
"Storyteller"... this one seems to think he's an ultra-cool airline captain addressing his pax on the PA, or maybe someone who has a speech impediment of some kind. Many pilots get "mic fright", too, so things can drag on a bit. Whatever their problem, they take so damn long you can't make your initial callup until you are on top of the airport.
"Machine whisperer": keys the CTAF-using automated weather report despite the fact that three others have listened to it in the past 10 minutes.
"Chatty hens": the ones who blither and blather with their friends on the CTAF as if it were their personal party line.

 

[Clark1961]

No, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to use the frequency properly (meaning accurately, relevantly, and succinctly), nor is it unreasonable to ***** about those who don't.
I've had some nasty surprises and close shaves, thanks to vague or wildly speculative position/intention reports.
And I've heard or seen much worse stuff happen than happened to me. So I take this problem seriously.

Lighten up, Francis

The world isn't going to behave the way you want it to

 

[Meanee]

I'm sure this must have been mentioned at some time, but I haven't seen it.

"Nowhere County traffic, Crashmaster 1234X ten minutes out, landing full stop."

"Full stop" is superfluous unless you've been doing T&Gs.

I was a little bit late returning a plane yesterday. I knew that FBO had radio. So I said Full Stop just to make sure next person knows when to expect the aircraft.

 

[roncachamp]

What is worse are those times when aircraft reports:
" 5 miles inbound straight in RWY xx " (and the guy is over the middle marker)
{so the guy on base looks up final just as he is about to collide with the caller over the marker}

I don't see a problem with that report.

 

[MAKG1]

I don't see a problem with that report.

If he's as the middle marker, he's a lot closer than the 5 miles he said.

 

[denverpilot]

I've heard and made 10 miles out calls but I've never heard anyone say 10 minutes out before

GPS button pusher. They read it off the screen.

Or...

I also hear it regularly from commuter airline pilots at uncontrolled fields, because they know most bugsmashers hear "X miles out" and think in terms of lower speeds to convert to times, and they're in a screaming 200+ knot descent out of FL230 after Center have them "descend at pilot's discretion" 100 miles ago.

 

[rottydaddy]

Why not just sign up for membership on getalife.com rather than bitching about something you can't control while the guy you're ****ed at has no idea of your grievances and no intention of changing the way he does it?

Because I already have a life, and bitching is a big part of it. And who knows? Bitcbing on a public forum might actually yield positive results.
At the very least, it made me feel good. I don't really come here to make anybody else feel good.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Enough bitchin ladies. Lets come up with the worst possible versions of these calls so we can have a laugh while flying and twisting panties.
'X airport airplane inbound for landing, any traffic please move over'

 

[wabower]

So noted.

Because I already have a life, and bitching is a big part of it. And who knows? Bitcbing on a public forum might actually yield positive results.
At the very least, it made me feel good. I don't really come here to make anybody else feel good.

 

[N5922S]

I was a little bit late returning a plane yesterday. I knew that FBO had radio. So I said Full Stop just to make sure next person knows when to expect the aircraft.

And if you had not said "Full Stop", the next person would have expected ...... ?

 

[Brad Z]

I'm sure this must have been mentioned at some time, but I haven't seen it.

"Nowhere County traffic, Crashmaster 1234X ten minutes out, landing full stop."

What direction is "out"?
How far is 10 minutes?
"Full stop" is superfluous unless you've been doing T&Gs.

Notice I didn't mention "Any traffic please advise"?

Yes, a direction would have been nice.

When you think about it, someone announcing distance without speed tells you nothing about when they will be joining the pattern. A turbine calling 10 miles north will arrive at about the same time as a 152 calling 5 miles south.

Reporting time from the airport is standard operation at Manditory Frequency Areas (MFAs) in Canada. Seems to work ok for them.

Full stop? Helpful info when you're trailing them in the pattern.

 

[roncachamp]

If he's as the middle marker, he's a lot closer than the 5 miles he said.

If the guy is basing his report on being over a marker beacon it's a safe bet it's an outer marker which would put him about five miles out.

 

[EdFred]

I've used minutes instead of miles before. I think it conveys more information than N12345 10 miles out. Is that 10 miles going to be 10 minutes or 4 minutes? If I'm flying circuits and I hear 10 minutes out, I know I don't have to worry for another 2 laps. If its 4 minutes, I may have to adjust on this or next circuit.

I've called 5 6 7 8 miles out, only to have the student/instructor in the pattern ask how long it will take anyway.

 

[Meanee]

And if you had not said "Full Stop", the next person would have expected ...... ?

Me completely forgetting that they are waiting and do touch and go's for next hour.

 

[rottydaddy]

Lighten up, Francis

The world isn't going to behave the way you want it to

No kidding. I've known that since I was big enough to walk unassisted.
I don't equate complaining with any such expectation, and as I said earlier, I don't get all steamed up about bad radio use... it's just annoying. I would never waste CTAF air time playing "radio cop" (another character on my list of radio abusers).

But it would be nice, for safety's sake, IMHO, if users of any CTAF would, before they key the mic, think about the pilots listening. The information should be useful, accurate, and brief. I don' separate radio work from any other aspect of sharing airports and traffic patterns... isn't it as important, safety-wise, as how we fly, taxi, runup, or park?

 

[wabower]

NTSB evidently doesn't think so, as no reporting system has been established to track bad words.

No kidding. I've known that since I was big enough to walk unassisted.
I don't equate complaining with any such expectation, and as I said earlier, I don't get all steamed up about bad radio use... it's just annoying. I would never waste CTAF air time playing "radio cop" (another character on my list of radio abusers).

But it would be nice, for safety's sake, IMHO, if users of any CTAF would, before they key the mic, think about the pilots listening. The information should be useful, accurate, and brief. I don' separate radio work from any other aspect of sharing airports and traffic patterns... isn't it as important, safety-wise, as how we fly, taxi, runup, or park?

 

[Meanee]

Eh, I had to play radio cop once. 2-3 pilots decided that it's a good idea to have a nice friendly chat with each other, while all 3 of them were in the same traffic pattern over the same field. Discussion was about what they had for breakfast...

 

[N5922S]

I've used minutes instead of miles before. I think it conveys more information than N12345 10 miles out. Is that 10 miles going to be 10 minutes or 4 minutes? If I'm flying circuits and I hear 10 minutes out, I know I don't have to worry for another 2 laps. If its 4 minutes, I may have to adjust on this or next circuit.

I've called 5 6 7 8 miles out, only to have the student/instructor in the pattern ask how long it will take anyway.

The point is that you want to know where the traffic is RIGHT NOW to avoid swapping paint.

Remember your first radio lesson: WHO are you WHERE are you WHAT are you going to do

 

[railroadjack]

I've heard some junk position reports, but the ones that always annoyed me were pilots reporting the GPS waypoint they're crossing (not on an approach, just inbound to the field). Don't get me wrong, I knew where SOME of them were. But not all. I had a better idea after doing some IR work.

I'd rather hear the landmarks you're crossing, but just like waypoints I wouldn't know if I wasn't familiar with the area.

 

[rottydaddy]

I've heard some junk position reports, but the ones that always annoyed me were pilots reporting the GPS waypoint they're crossing (not on an approach, just inbound to the field). Don't get me wrong, I knew where SOME of them were. But not all. I had a better idea after doing some IR work.

I'd rather hear the landmarks you're crossing, but just like waypoints I wouldn't know if I wasn't familiar with the area.

They use the waypoint name because they probably don't know where they are.
I dont see whats so hard about bearing (even a cardinal direction) and thumbnail mileage, or a visual landmark name. Saying that stuff instead of some virtual waypoint makes sure everyone gets the gist, not just the few who recognize the waypoint name.
But gosh ot soinds so badass... my faves are the ones who are shooting an IFR approach into an airport that is under VFR, and give some waypoint or just the name of the approach. By (apparently) assuming that only other IFR traffic will hear them (or whatever delusion they are nursing), they are making things worse for themselves. It's even worse when the offender is actually coming out of IMC, near the airport.
I've heard some IFR pilots on the CTAF use normal bearing and distance, and it didn't seem to be a huge task for them. They mifht also mention they are on an instrument approach, but they have the sense to cover their butts with something all pilots should recognize.
They still sound way cool (of course! They are instrument rated!), but SMART cool.

 

[EdFred]

The point is that you want to know where the traffic is RIGHT NOW to avoid swapping paint.

Remember your first radio lesson: WHO are you WHERE are you WHAT are you going to do

What about saying 10 minutes out (PS, I will say 10 minutes n/e/s/w) indicates that you have any need to worry about swapping paint for about, oh 10 minutes?

 

[Goofy]

Because I already have a life, and bitching is a big part of it. And who knows? Bitcbing on a public forum might actually yield positive results.
At the very least, it made me feel good. I don't really come here to make anybody else feel good.

I like this! Makes perfect sense. Don't know about the bitc-bing on the forum but I like to razz all the dopes and know-it-alls I can when they ask for it! Much fun stirring up the egos with nothing better to do than type away their frustrations on a forum, make good targets! Go get 'em!!!

 

[flyingmoose]

I'm sure this must have been mentioned at some time, but I haven't seen it.

"Nowhere County traffic, Crashmaster 1234X ten minutes out, landing full stop."

What direction is "out"?
How far is 10 minutes?
"Full stop" is superfluous unless you've been doing T&Gs.

Notice I didn't mention "Any traffic please advise"?

Oh com'on now. Its a general call, not intended to tell what might be a dead frequency your whole flight details. If more information is needed it will come out in the exchange. I bet you tell nobody listening that you are taxing for the active too.

Personally.... If I hear something like that, it gives me a heads up on an inbound flight..... That radio call took 4 seconds,,,, I can deal with that..... YMMV.

Yup

It's better than dead silence following by some bozo landing straight in without as much as saying a single word.

I bet if they would have flown a pattern you would have seen them.

What is worse are those times when aircraft reports:
" 5 miles inbound straight in RWY xx " (and the guy is over the middle marker)
{so the guy on base looks up final just as he is about to collide with the caller over the marker}

Im sure its not that dramatic. Thats what the radio call is for.

Think that's bad ? Take enough time to listen to "The PROS" at a class B. You can hear in real time the Heavy Iron jocks make every possible misuse of air communications you have ever heard of. Guess no one cares, you never hear of any corrective action being taken....Have to take that back. I haven't any real foul profanity from them. The ATC people seem to be much better.

It works don't it. It might not be by the book proper everytime but we know how to "get-r-done"

Enough bitchin ladies. Lets come up with the worst possible versions of these calls so we can have a laugh while flying and twisting panties.
'X airport airplane inbound for landing, any traffic please move over'

So what kind of call would chuck norris make?