Another DUI related post

[Majestic Void]

First Off - Thanks to all who view and respond to this post. This seems to be a great Forum and Resource for current and prospective Pilots!

Per the title, this will be another post related to DUI arrests and obtaining a Pilot Licence.

From what I understand after reviewing previous questions asked on the subject it is indeed possible to obtain a license, after undergoing an intense process. Specifically the HIMS process.

What I have not seen covered are some specific details that I am here to ask about now. If it has been covered, please forgive me I was not able to uncover it within the posts I have reviewed as of now.

So for starters, I have been convicted of two DUIs. It is an embarrassment and shameful detail that I have to live with and own for the rest of my life.

The first DUI was when I was at the age of 20. I was quite reckless and not thinking of the consequences or putting others at harm. In this arrest, I crashed into a traffic signal and took the thing out. I tested under .15 BAC.

Second occurrence was at the age of 27, and if I remember right I refused the BAC test. Additionally I was slapped with a resisting arrest charge as I did not want to cooperate with the arresting officer in my intoxicated state.

After my second arrest I immediately entered into an Outpatient Rehab program and completed that. I have maintained complete sobriety since that last event. I recognized I had a problem, and I will never touch a drop of liquor again in my life. Nor any other substance. So, for me the the process of submitting for any and all medical related tests to prove continued sobriety will not be an issue at all.

The main question I have here is, in refusing the BAC test, does that automatically result in a denial, even if one undergoes the HIMS process?? I have had a lifelong passion and desire to eventually obtain a license and enjoy the wonder and opportunity of Aviation. Realizing I made some extremely serious mistakes, I can live with the fact it may never be possible outside of a Sports license, but still have hope that I can one day achieve obtaining a License.

FYI, I am at the age of 33 now so Six years has passed since the terrible mistake I made.

 

[Brad Z]

The assumption if you refused a test is that you were above .15, suggesting high tolerance consistent with dependence. Along with the prior DUI, it's clear that you're an alcoholic. The only path to a certificate for you will be to prove that you're an alcoholic who is in recovery. You're in it for the long haul of the HIMS process.

 

[Majestic Void]

The assumption if you refused a test is that you were above .15, suggesting high tolerance consistent with dependence. Along with the prior DUI, it's clear that you're an alcoholic. The only path to a certificate for you will be to prove that you're an alcoholic who is in recovery. You're in it for the long haul of the HIMS process.

Thanks for the response. I am indeed an alcoholic, and I own that 100%.

Are there references or starting points that you or anyone else viewing my post can refer me to by chance? Is Dr. Bruce still around ?

 

[Palmpilot]

... Is Dr. Bruce still around ?

Yes. His most recent post was two days ago.

 

[Half Fast]

Realizing I made some extremely serious mistakes, I can live with the fact it may never be possible outside of a Sports license, but still have hope that I can one day achieve obtaining a License.

Before going down a very long and very expensive path to a medical, why not give Sport Pilot a try first? You may find it perfectly adequate, and if not the training will count toward Private Pilot so it won’t be wasted.

 

[lbfjrmd]

The main question I have here is, in refusing the BAC test, does that automatically result in a denial, even if one undergoes the HIMS process??

No, you can be certificated. Find a HIMS AME in your area and start the process!

 

[Majestic Void]

Before going down a very long and very expensive path to a medical, why not give Sport Pilot a try first? You may find it perfectly adequate, and if not the training will count toward Private Pilot so it won’t be wasted.

Thanks for the response. I am definitely going to put some thought and consideration into that prospect.

No, you can be certificated. Find a HIMS AME in your area and start the process!

Thanks for your response as well, as a Senior AME, I know that I can trust your input!
I have searched for an AME in my area, Albuquerque NM and I am not finding anything on the FAA website. EDIT : I found 2 nearby after adjusting the search parameters.

 

[bbchien]

Two events is automatically FAA Abuse, at least….and may be dependency, even if sober.
Any use of alcohol after the 2nd event is considered dependency. The answer is verifiable sobriety and education.

you may or may not need formal rehab…FAA Views that as education.

 

[Say Again]

Would he still meet the criteria for substance abuse even if the preceding two years have lapsed? Or do they have the option interpret that criteria differently?

 

[bbchien]

Would he still meet the criteria for substance abuse even if the preceding two years have lapsed? Or do they have the option interpret that criteria differently?

The problem is, about the only way to prove that is a monitored random urine program not under the control of the applicant, that meets FAA stds for such a program. ANYTHING less is just "making an assertion" and as you can guess, that leads noplace.

That being said, I did receive a letter from (get this) a COUNTY SHERIFF, whcih was credible (talk about a guy in a position to know), ON HIS LETTERHEAD, that the thought the guy had given up the bottle about 5 years earlier.....


B

 

[allPrimes]

First Off - Thanks to all who view and respond to this post. This seems to be a great Forum and Resource for current and prospective Pilots!

Per the title, this will be another post related to DUI arrests and obtaining a Pilot Licence.

From what I understand after reviewing previous questions asked on the subject it is indeed possible to obtain a license, after undergoing an intense process. Specifically the HIMS process.

What I have not seen covered are some specific details that I am here to ask about now. If it has been covered, please forgive me I was not able to uncover it within the posts I have reviewed as of now.

So for starters, I have been convicted of two DUIs. It is an embarrassment and shameful detail that I have to live with and own for the rest of my life.

The first DUI was when I was at the age of 20. I was quite reckless and not thinking of the consequences or putting others at harm. In this arrest, I crashed into a traffic signal and took the thing out. I tested under .15 BAC.

Second occurrence was at the age of 27, and if I remember right I refused the BAC test. Additionally I was slapped with a resisting arrest charge as I did not want to cooperate with the arresting officer in my intoxicated state.

After my second arrest I immediately entered into an Outpatient Rehab program and completed that. I have maintained complete sobriety since that last event. I recognized I had a problem, and I will never touch a drop of liquor again in my life. Nor any other substance. So, for me the the process of submitting for any and all medical related tests to prove continued sobriety will not be an issue at all.

The main question I have here is, in refusing the BAC test, does that automatically result in a denial, even if one undergoes the HIMS process?? I have had a lifelong passion and desire to eventually obtain a license and enjoy the wonder and opportunity of Aviation. Realizing I made some extremely serious mistakes, I can live with the fact it may never be possible outside of a Sports license, but still have hope that I can one day achieve obtaining a License.

FYI, I am at the age of 33 now so Six years has passed since the terrible mistake I made.

Hey there!

I applied for my 3rd class medical in July 2020 after 19 years of sobriety (in AA) after getting a DUI in 1999. I was denied a 3rd class in September 2020 but was encouraged to go the HIMS route. I was required to do the full battery neuropsych but was not required to see a psychiatrist. I started HIMS monitoring in Dec 2020 and my HIMS AME sent my packet in in March 2021. I received my 3rd class medical in July 2021. I went basic med in January of 2023.

The thread in which I detail my experience is available in my post history. I understand that timelines are a bit longer these days, likely because the FAA doesn't like people like me, getting a 3rd class SI then jumping to basic med soon thereafter.

It's possible to get a medical, but it won't be cheap, and it will be annoying.

Good luck!

Edited to add: I doubt that refusing the BAC test will result in a denial. What will probably result in a denial is the fact that you are ineligible to hold a 3rd class medical certificate because you are "substance dependent" (regardless of how long ago you gave it all up). If you are able to convince them via your personal statement and supporting documentation that you are HIMS-worthy (hah!) then you will likely get the "3rd class denial with HIMS reconsideration encouragement" letter that a lot of folks get.

Are you aiming for a 1st class? If yes, my sample size there is 0 and you should reach out to Dr. Bruce or any of the other docs that frequent this forum. If 3rd class, get all of the documentation surrounding your arrests, court room docs, and rehab docs, then prepare for an 18month slog through bureaucratic hell wherein you will be asked to prove that you are sober and can maintain sobriety.

 

[lbfjrmd]

I understand that timelines are a bit longer these days, likely because the FAA doesn't like people like me, getting a 3rd class SI then jumping to basic med soon thereafter.

they don't care ... it does not affect their pay or vacation time!