Annual inspection: why is it done in a single shop?

NoHeat said:
Your comment above was directed at me.

It seems that I've somehow disturbed you by starting a thread to ask a question.

And that's all I did -- ask a question. I believe that asking a question is a legitimate use of internet forums. It's an especially good practice, I believe, to start a thread to ask a question that might interest various readers, and one that has an answer that isn't obvious to everyone. I think my question qualifies for that -- not everybody knows the legalities and subtleties of every FAR -- I certainly don't, and so I asked the question.
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No problem asking the question. It's been answered several times by several mechanics and you continue to ask the same question worded slightly differently apparently hoping the answer is going to change.
 
GlennAB1 said:
And for the record, three stickers aren't required... no stickers are required.
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I think "sticker" is a replacement word for a signoff. Before we had computers that would spit out a spiffy LEGIBLE listing of work done, we'd start out the litany with the, "I have inspected this aircraft in accordance with an annual inspection ... dadadada... and found it in airworthy condition. ADs checked ... recurrent ads...elt checked....dadadada..." about a page long in henscratching that nobody could really read. Yes, you are correct, no stickers are required.

The magic words "inspected ... annual ... airworthy" have to appear, and whether they are done in longhand or printed on a sticker is immaterial. Just for CONVENIENCE we put that magic sticker and/or longhand plus signature into the airframe logbook, but as I said above, so long as it is in the aircraft PERMANENT records, it matters not where it is recorded.

Just for the record, there is no such thing as an annual on an airframe. There is no such thing and annual on an engine. There is no such thing as an annual on a propeller. There is an annual on an AIRPLANE or AIRCRAFT.

I prefer AIRCRAFT as I sometimes do a glider and the sticker would be invalid if I used an AIRPLANE sticker for a GLIDER.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
The magic words "inspected ... annual ... airworthy" have to appear...
Jim
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And that's incorrect.

The annual can be signed off like this:
—“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with (insert type) inspection and a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items dated (date) has been provided for the aircraft owner or operator.”

And ftr, you can notice all of my posts refer to "aircraft", not airframe.
 
denverpilot said:
The AI who does the annual isn't going to sign off on anything they didn't inspect themselves.
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Amen,, But only the smart ones.

I do not know a single IA that would not tell the aircraft owner " call me when the aircraft is back together and ready for me to inspect"

Just because the engine was overhauled and ready to install, does not mean that it will run as it should installed. same same the prop.
Until you can run the engine the annual is not complete.

remember the term "airworthy" means it is safe to fly.
 
GlennAB1 said:
And that's incorrect.

The annual can be signed off like this:
—“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with (insert type) inspection and a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items dated (date) has been provided for the aircraft owner or operator.”

And ftr, you can notice all of my posts refer to "aircraft", not airframe.
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And 43.17
 
GlennAB1 said:
;(

Actually, There are two conditions that must be met for an aircraft to be considered "Airworthy”, one is: The aircraft must be in a condition for safe operation.

What's the other, Tom?
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Look it up your the great FAR researcher.
 
GlennAB1 said:
That's why you keep bringing it up and I keep shooting you down.
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You still haven't told us why you believe a 337 made out and sent in by a Canadian is handled differently that one made out and sent in by you or me?
 
GlennAB1 said:
And that's incorrect.

The annual can be signed off like this:
—“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with (insert type) inspection and a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items dated (date) has been provided for the aircraft owner or operator.”

And ftr, you can notice all of my posts refer to "aircraft", not airframe.
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Oh, come on. You aren't in the little airplane world. I'm inspecting an airplane. I find something unairworthy. I turn to the owner at my right shoulder and tell him/her to to take care of this. I stop the annual inspection. They take care of it. I continue.

I realize that is the way of shops, big city stuff and all of that. The owner's son plays baseball with my kids. I'm going to give him a "no pass" without the right to correct it? Not in my world. Especially as his wife and mine sing in the church choir.

We're in the world of safety and community, not the world of rigid FAA rules.

Y'all be a member of your little airplane community and perhaps have a wife that is a member of the local community?

Jim
 
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weirdjim said:
Oh, come on. You aren't in the little airplane world. I'm inspecting an airplane. I find something unairworthy. I turn to the owner at my right shoulder and tell him/her to to take care of this. I stop the annual inspection. They take care of it. I continue.

I realize that is the way of shops, big city stuff and all of that. The owner's son plays baseball with my kids. I'm going to give him a "no pass" without the right to correct it? Not in my world. Especially as his wife and mine sing in the church choir.

We're in the world of safety and community, not the world of rigid FAA rules.

Y'all be a member of your little airplane community and perhaps have a wife that is a member of the local community?

Jim
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Base on OP posts I've seen, not everyone has such rapport with their A&P and/or IA.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Maybe the FAA wants to keep tighter reigns on the foreign maintainers authorized by 43.17? You're the one having the issue with it, ask the FAA.
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Your avoiding the answer to the question of how the 337 is filed and treated at OKC. because you now there is no difference. as you insinuated it the other thread.
 
Again, it's the filing/reporting requirement that was the dispute, and there is a difference. Why are you making it out to be something it's not?
 
geneseib said:
I am glad i can get it all done in one shop. Why would I want to deal with three.
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Well there is that. Our shop would gladly accept a prop from across town (and even go get it in the shop pickup truck) from the prop shop, and I'm absolutely sure they'd happily accept an engine too off of the freight truck. And then do whatever stuff was needed in one fell swoop.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Again, it's the filing/reporting requirement that was the dispute, and there is a difference. Why are you making it out to be something it's not?
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Well then tell us how one 337 is handled different than the other.
both go to the same address and are filed the same way. yet you believe there is a difference between 43.17 para (a) and ( c) as to when we complete it. I'm saying it doesn't make any difference if you sign it rejected or not it is still going to the same place and treated the same way no matter who did it.
The form 337 makes provisions for the Persons mentioned in 43.17 to check the appropriate box.
 
Tom-D said:
Well then tell us how one 337 is handled different than the other.
both go to the same address and are filed the same way. yet you believe there is a difference between 43.17 para (a) and ( c) as to when we complete it. I'm saying it doesn't make any difference if you sign it rejected or not it is still going to the same place and treated the same way no matter who did it.
The form 337 makes provisions for the Persons mentioned in 43.17 to check the appropriate box.
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Do we really need to continue to rehash this? It's okay, I'm making almost $60 an hour... if we must.

You're so confused... It's not 43.17 para (a) and (c), it's 43 Appendix B para (a) and (c)

43 Appendix B (c) does not apply, unless you are now claiming to be a certain Canadian, otherwise, 43 Appendix B (c) is irrelevant and the fact that you followed it really has no bearing here.

43 Appendix B (a) applies, and is what you should have followed. Here it is:

43 Appendix B (a) (3) Forward a copy of that form to the FAA Aircraft Registration Branch in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, within 48 hours after the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance is approved for return to service.

You forwarded a copy of that form to the FAA, that was rejected, not approved for return to service. How can you begin to think that you followed the FAR?
 
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