Annual done on my 182

[saddletramp]

I've owned my 182A model for 5.5 years. The first two annuals I had done at a close local shop that's know for being expensive but meticulous. Yeah, they were expensive annuals averaging $5,000.

Since I went into semi-retirement & are watching my pennies a bit closer I had the last two annuals done my a mobile A & P in the area that's famous for his inexpensive annuals. They were around $600 ea but I felt like they weren't very detailed. It took less than a day to complete with me helping.

This year I decided to go another shop close by that I'd heard good things about. My annual was $3,200 but here's some of the items they found. I had two bolts missing on the exhaust manifold on the #2 cylinder. That explained my occasional CO warning on my Sentry. They also found a small oil leak on a seal by the oil cooler. That leak has driven me crazy. They also did a great job of putting a small patch on the front of my cowling that was cracking. All the sparks plugs were cleaned & gapped. Something the cheaper A & P never did. He'd pull one spark plug out & say it looked good. They also washed & detailed the inside of my cowling & washed the entire airplane.

I'm glad to write the $3,200 check to pay for the annual because now I feel my airplane is in top notched shape. That's a great feeling when you're flying over the Cascade Mtns. My .02 worth.

 

[Magman]

Posts such as this can be misleading. Lumping the Annual INSPECTION and resultant

REPAIRS together may not convey the true picture.

Owners have choices; get your hands dirty or just write the check.

It seems you have tried both and are actively involved with the maintenance.

To me; the worst is folks that drop off & pick up but later complain about the cost

with no knowledge of what actually took place.

My take is that it is essential that you have a good understanding of the

entire procedure with your Tech.

Patching the cowling, spark plug service and cleaning and washing could be

accomplished by the Owner as Preventative Maintenance or under supervision if

that route was desired.

Having an IA running a vacuum cleaner seems like overkill.

Just paying more for services will not increase the safety of the aircraft.

What is important is the integrity of the inspecting “ Agency”.

The thoroughness of the Inspection should not vary with the venue.

Whether it is conducted in the Presidential Hangar or a cow barn the Tech should

apply the same Standards.

The nice carpets and friendly Receptionist are merely overhead.

Many folks like vanilla ice cream.

Others prefer Chocolate or ButterPecan.

Choices.

 

[Gary Ward]

I've owned my 182A model for 5.5 years. The first two annuals I had done at a close local shop that's know for being expensive but meticulous. Yeah, they were expensive annuals averaging $5,000.

Since I went into semi-retirement & are watching my pennies a bit closer I had the last two annuals done my a mobile A & P in the area that's famous for his inexpensive annuals. They were around $600 ea but I felt like they weren't very detailed. It took less than a day to complete with me helping.

This year I decided to go another shop close by that I'd heard good things about. My annual was $3,200 but here's some of the items they found. I had two bolts missing on the exhaust manifold on the #2 cylinder. That explained my occasional CO warning on my Sentry. They also found a small oil leak on a seal by the oil cooler. That leak has driven me crazy. They also did a great job of putting a small patch on the front of my cowling that was cracking. All the sparks plugs were cleaned & gapped. Something the cheaper A & P never did. He'd pull one spark plug out & say it looked good. They also washed & detailed the inside of my cowling & washed the entire airplane.

I'm glad to write the $3,200 check to pay for the annual because now I feel my airplane is in top notched shape. That's a great feeling when you're flying over the Cascade Mtns. My .02 worth.

Good to hear and if your happy that is all that counts.

I agree with what Magman has said.

I would take my plane washed and clean inside and out before I take it someplace for a annual. Just like I do for my cars and trucks if I have to take them somewhere for service. I feel it will help my chances of getting quality fairly priced work if they don't have work on something dirty.

Many folks wait until annual time to have repairs done and lump it into annual inspection costs. That is fine but really your annual did not cost $3200.

I like you would not feel comfortable with a mobile mechanic if he only glossed over your plane, then mostly did a paper and pen annual.

I am lucky as I am able do my maintenance all year long in my hangar with my IA supervision.

I also help do the annual on my buddy's cherokee with his IA supervision full time. We take his plane to Cleveland and we both do 98% of the work with his IA there the whole time.

My annuals take usually 5-7 days/eves with me doing all the labor. It is a 172, a very simple plane to maintain.
My IA lives 5 minutes from my airport and stops by about 3 times during those 5 days to inspect the plane. I don't cut corners, I take many pictures of my work to prove it has been done. I send many pictures to Joe my IA also to document what is being done and have posted many online for all to see.

I do some preventive maintenance during my annual when I have things apart. I am getting to the point that I have updated most everything front to back and one year it could be just a visual inspection I hope.

I have had my plane 4 years next April. I have flown it 750 hrs so far.

I would stay with that shop and maybe get them to do some maintenance during the year before the annual comes up. Develop a good relationship with them outside of your annuals.
Good luck with yours.

 

[Bell206]

My .02 worth.

Curious. What was the total billed manhours for each of the 3 annuals you mentioned?

 

[Bell206]

Having an IA running a vacuum cleaner seems like overkill

So you dont clean the aircraft prior to inspecting it? What reference do you use for your annuals?

 

[Gary Ward]

So you dont clean the aircraft prior to inspecting it? What reference do you use for your annuals?

I use this as a guide...https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-106.pdf
I did not read where saddletramp said they vacuumed out the inside.

But it does need to be done especially after pulling out the carpet for example.

My plane was flown about 10 hours during the previous 10 years before I bought it. I suspect the annuals were mostly paper and pen.

It was parked in a open hangar and was filled with mud daubers and wasp nests. It has taken 3 annuals to get most out of the plane. I also made up smaller hose on my shop vac to suck out many aluminum shavings out of the floor from when they built the plane that have been in there for 40 years.

My IA was in the rear fuselage replacing trim cables, I gave him a scuff pad and a shopvac hose to clean the floor up in back to insure all the drain holes were open. If I wasn't there it probably would not have happened. That was not during a annual.

This years annual the fuel vent line rubber hoses were replaced along with the ceet hose that was full of mud daubers while I had the interior out. I put scat hose back in it's place.

New air ducts on the fairings also.

 

[Magman]

S1.35 per minute is more than many folks can or want to afford.

So far most of them have proven quite adept at operating the vacuum.

Some are also capable of cleaning the windshield.

The ref varies with the setting.

Commercial Operators often have a different outlook than an

individual with a burger chaser.

 

[Doug Reid]

Did some of the debris get cleaned from your control surfaces ? Mud daubers love to build in control surfaces.

 

[Gary Ward]

Did some of the debris get cleaned from your control surfaces ? Mud daubers love to build in control surfaces.

Yes, unfortunately they were everywhere. I keep finding more that have broke loose. I found another one that had fell down from the vertical stabilizer last annual.

Any tips on how to remove difficult ones that I may not have seen or found yet?

 

[Bell206]

Any tips on how to remove difficult ones that I may not have seen or found yet?

Have rigged up tube extensions to various air/water supply sources to reach deep into the nooks and crannies. Borescope can help find critter homes in complex structures as well. And in some cases where permitted by the OEM we've added access panels to wings/airframe areas to finish cleaning the internal areas.Where this is a recurring event for bugs and birds perhaps get with your APIA and cover the access points/holes with screen or fabric.

 

[Gary Ward]

Have rigged up tube extensions to various air/water supply sources to reach deep into the nooks and crannies. Borescope can help find critter homes in complex structures as well. And in some cases where permitted by the OEM we've added access panels to wings/airframe areas to finish cleaning the internal areas.Where this is a recurring event for bugs and birds perhaps get with your APIA and cover the access points/holes with screen or fabric.

Thanks so much for the advise. I will make up some devices for that purpose next annual.

I imagine it could upset the balance of some control surfaces on faster airplanes.

 

[AKBill]

Posts such as this can be misleading. Lumping the Annual INSPECTION and resultant

REPAIRS together may not convey the true picture.

Owners have choices; get your hands dirty or just write the check.

It seems you have tried both and are actively involved with the maintenance.

To me; the worst is folks that drop off & pick up but later complain about the cost

with no knowledge of what actually took place.

My take is that it is essential that you have a good understanding of the

entire procedure with your Tech.

Patching the cowling, spark plug service and cleaning and washing could be

accomplished by the Owner as Preventative Maintenance or under supervision if

that route was desired.

Having an IA running a vacuum cleaner seems like overkill.

Just paying more for services will not increase the safety of the aircraft.

What is important is the integrity of the inspecting “ Agency”.

The thoroughness of the Inspection should not vary with the venue.

Whether it is conducted in the Presidential Hangar or a cow barn the Tech should

apply the same Standards.

The nice carpets and friendly Receptionist are merely overhead.

Many folks like vanilla ice cream.

Others prefer Chocolate or ButterPecan.

Choices.

I skip most of you posts because of the way you format your writing. Sorry, I'm sure you have good info but your sentence structure has a lot to be desired.

 

[danhagan]

This year I decided to go another shop close by that I'd heard good things about. My annual was $3,200 but here's some of the items they found. I had two bolts missing on the exhaust manifold on the #2 cylinder. They also found a small oil leak on a seal by the oil cooler. That leak has driven me crazy. They also did a great job of putting a small patch on the front of my cowling that was cracking. All the sparks plugs were cleaned & gapped. Something the cheaper A & P never did. He'd pull one spark plug out & say it looked good. They also washed & detailed the inside of my cowling & washed the entire airplane.

I'm glad to write the $3,200 check to pay for the annual because now I feel my airplane is in top notched shape. That's a great feeling when you're flying over the Cascade Mtns. My .02 worth.

You MUST be leaving out something important. Two bolts and a gasket aren't going to be the difference between annual inspection cost and your total $3200 bill. You say "cowl" work, on my previous Tiger rebuilding an exit ramp was pricey at FletchAIR, but that was on the seller's dime.

I just finished an owner assist, and yes we cleaned and moved plugs around, changed oil & filter, regreased everything $450. I order parts for $115 as I had a slight brake leak on the cockpit side of the firewall and the following week we replaced a bunch of fittings and tubes for an all new system (2 hours @ $80 per hour) $615 total all in ... I had the oil and filter already bought in bulk so not sure what that would've added guessing 80-100.

 

[Rgbeard]

TL;DR version:

I used to spend a butt-load on annuals.
I hired a pencil whipper for a while.
Found I am happier somewhere between buttload and pencil-whip.

(also discovered I like a clean airplane)

Did I capture this correctly?

 

[Dan Thomas]

You MUST be leaving out something important. Two bolts and a gasket aren't going to be the difference between annual inspection cost and your total $3200 bill.

There is a wide range of habits when it comes to annuals. There are the guys like the OP's that do little more than walk around the airplane and sign it off. There are a whole lot of guys who do a lot more than that but still tend to get the job done pretty quick. And then there are the few that do the stuff that's actually legally required, and that takes time. Not the inspection so much, but removing a lot of inspection panels and interior stuff to get a look at the hidden stuff. I have found way too many defects that obviously went unseen for many years, things that didn't develop just since the last annual. Many of those were serious, life-threatening items that could have resulted in an accident.

In the US, FAR 43 Appendix D outlines the minimum necessary for an annual. Sentences like this are short, but complying takes time:

Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.

All systems - for improper installation, poor general condition, apparent and obvious defects, and insecurity of attachment.

Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where applicable) all components of the wing and center section assembly for poor general condition, fabric or skin deterioration, distortion, evidence of failure, and insecurity of attachment.

(g) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where applicable) all components and systems that make up the complete empennage assembly for poor general condition, fabric or skin deterioration, distortion, evidence of failure, insecure attachment, improper component installation, and improper component operation.

And that's just a few excerpts. Just how does a mechanic sign off an annual, stating that he has done the inspection in accordance with the regulations, without opening up a lot of stuff and getting in there and looking at it? He can't. He's lying. And it's why some of us find frayed cables, missing or loose hardware, seized pulleys, serious corrosion, cracks, chafed wiring and a lot of other stuff.

 

[donjohnston]

I skip most of you posts because of the way you format your writing. Sorry, I'm sure you have good info but your sentence structure has a lot to be desired.

I was wondering

if I was

the only one who

felt that way.

 

[Magman]

I guess if you don’t like it you can ask for your money back!

 

[scarcherpilot]

I use this as a guide...https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-106.pdf
I did not read where saddletramp said they vacuumed out the inside.

But it does need to be done especially after pulling out the carpet for example.

My plane was flown about 10 hours during the previous 10 years before I bought it. I suspect the annuals were mostly paper and pen.

It was parked in a open hangar and was filled with mud daubers and wasp nests. It has taken 3 annuals to get most out of the plane. I also made up smaller hose on my shop vac to suck out many aluminum shavings out of the floor from when they built the plane that have been in there for 40 years.

My IA was in the rear fuselage replacing trim cables, I gave him a scuff pad and a shopvac hose to clean the floor up in back to insure all the drain holes were open. If I wasn't there it probably would not have happened. That was not during a annual.

This years annual the fuel vent line rubber hoses were replaced along with the ceet hose that was full of mud daubers while I had the interior out. I put scat hose back in it's place.

New air ducts on the fairings also.

Holy crap, you may want to do another weight and balance after removing so much stuff! LOL

 

[JOhnH]

I skip most of you posts because of the way you format your writing. Sorry, I'm sure you have good info but your sentence structure has a lot to be desired.

I kinda like his writing style. Short bullet thoughts are easier to read than those long, run on sentences with little or incorrect punctuation that include a dozen thoughts and no white space and are full of dangling participles (sort of like this one).

 

[Gary Ward]

Holy crap, you may want to do another weight and balance after removing so much stuff! LOL

That was only about half after the first annual. At first I was throwing them outside then brought the garbage can over to the plane.

Not flying them is so bad.

Now I try to fly everyday I can after work including last night.

 

[danhagan]

There is a wide range of habits when it comes to annuals.

I keep everything simple.

1. Annual will be everything opened up and inspected. Swing gear if needed for a cost of ...

I see in my area $850-1200 on a non-retract inspection-opening everything (no repair add ons).
More if gear is swung.

Mine is $450 as owner assist. It HAS to be lifted to do the bearings and set the nose gear "pull" force. All panels (and there are way too many screws on the floor of an RV) removed. I have to do the majority of the grunt work, they inspect and will help buttoning things back up, but I have a bunch of time in by the end.

 

[AKBill]

Posts such as this can be misleading. Lumping the Annual INSPECTION and resultant

REPAIRS together may not convey the true picture.

Owners have choices; get your hands dirty or just write the check.

It seems you have tried both and are actively involved with the maintenance.

To me; the worst is folks that drop off & pick up but later complain about the cost

with no knowledge of what actually took place.

My take is that it is essential that you have a good understanding of the

entire procedure with your Tech.

Patching the cowling, spark plug service and cleaning and washing could be

accomplished by the Owner as Preventative Maintenance or under supervision if

that route was desired.

Having an IA running a vacuum cleaner seems like overkill.

Just paying more for services will not increase the safety of the aircraft.

What is important is the integrity of the inspecting “ Agency”.

The thoroughness of the Inspection should not vary with the venue.

Whether it is conducted in the Presidential Hangar or a cow barn the Tech should

apply the same Standards.

The nice carpets and friendly Receptionist are merely overhead.

Many folks like vanilla ice cream.

Others prefer Chocolate or ButterPecan.

Choices.

@Magman I apologize for my post. It is improper for me to publicly say anything about how you write. We are both members of a very good forum and should support each other. My bad take care.

I kinda like his writing style. Short bullet thoughts are easier to read than those long, run on sentences with little or incorrect punctuation that include a dozen thoughts and no white space and are full of dangling participles (sort of like this one).

Agreed it is not right for me to say anything about how someone writes. H6ll my spelling is some of the worst..

 

[Magman]

Thank you Bill.


Perhaps I missed something when transitioning to the iPad that irritates some folks.

My prior communications device was a “ Graphite Rod that was cellulose enclosed,

digitally manipulated with a rubber corrective device on the end”.

 

[benyflyguy]

I think our local shop charges 1200 now for a 182 annual. For us it’s usually more because we end up finding things that need to be repaired or replaced. The “annual” number is deceiving as we’ve had some that will be close to $45,000. But when we look at the work that needs to be done At the time. It was necessary. We are however due for a “cheaper” annual this year as we’ve done a lot of catch-up stuff in the last few.