And here they come out of woodwork

[GlennAB1]

I read the other day [don't know if true or not] that 2/3 of all gun death are from suicide.

Suicide and homicide statistics are separate on the CDC website. There are far more firearm suicides than firearm homicides. 2/3 sounds accurate.

 

[1RTK1]

I haven't read this whole thread but hear are a few thoughts of mine.
It is not a gun problem, it is a social problem with declining morals and values in America.
When my dad was a kid they had a shooting class in high school, they had no problems.
When I was in school I left my shotgun in my car and hunted at lunch time, we had no problems.
You can do neither now and have to walk through metal detectors in many schools being patrolled by police officers.
We had no mass shootings or anything similar as "I recall"
We have much more stricter gun laws now then back in the day.
Soooo, if we had the same guns, and we have more gun laws now, (adjusting for population increase) the only other factor is people. Guess we just have a bunch more deranged F'd up people in America now, either that or someone has been putting something in the water............
There could be many factors leading to this from drugs to movies, I don't have the answer for that question

 

[deonb]

I want to better understand the point you are making. Do you believe in an ultimate reality?

I think an actual religious discussion will get another thread banned. All I was pointing out that if you want to have an objective discussion, arguing from a "rational explanation" point of view is different than arguing from a "truth" point of view. Saying "the truth" begs the question.

 

[Cooter]

I think an actual religious discussion will get another thread banned. All I was pointing out that if you want to have an objective discussion, arguing from a "rational explanation" point of view is different than arguing from a "truth" point of view. Saying "the truth" begs the question.

It's not a religious question, and the mods have been very tolerant lately.

You claimed a contradiction and I think you should be able to answer some questions about what you meant. In order to know at which point our disagreement begins I want to know what your perspective is. Do we live in a real world? In other words, is there a reality beyond simply our perception of it?

 

[Cooter]

It doesn't to seem like you want to answer questions. But let me try a different angle. What do you believe "rational explanations" are comprised of?

 

[deonb]

In other words, is there a reality beyond simply our perception of it?

Quantum mechanically speaking, there are infinite realities. Our perception is of one of them.

EDIT: And if we weren’t there to observe it wouldn’t exist. Well it would and it wouldn’t exist at the same time.

 

[Cooter]

Quantum mechanically speaking, there are infinite realities. Our perception is of one of them.

EDIT: And if we weren’t there to observe it wouldn’t exist. Well it would and it wouldn’t exist at the same time.

But there is someone doing the observing, right?

Why does this feel like pulling teeth? I'm just trying to establish a basis for our interaction.

 

[Half Fast]

Quantum mechanically speaking, there are infinite realities. Our perception is of one of them.

EDIT: And if we weren’t there to observe it wouldn’t exist. Well it would and it wouldn’t exist at the same time.

Been dipping Copenhagen again, have we?

 

[Palmpilot]

He is using (abusing) his employer's platform...

That's for his employer to decide.

Nonviolent protest is not wrong, even if it offends some people.

 

[Cooter]

That's for his employer to decide.

Nonviolent protest is not wrong, even if it offends some people.

But that doesn't mean that it has to be unconditionally accepted either.

 

[Cooter]

This:
and this:
are contradictory. "Best rational explanation" is a great philosophy to live by. It's how science also works. The moment however you use "the truth", it becomes about passing judgement on those who has a "Best rational explanation" that differ from yours, rather than being open to "welcome any challenge to my belief".

Did you delete your post? I can't find it above. But since your not willing to dialogue, I'll just respond and be done.

"Best rational explanation" assumes truth. Rationality itself assumes truth. Exploration and investigation assume a truth that can be discovered. I simply stated that my experience and study has brought me closer to the truth. If study and observation doesn't give us a better understanding of the world we live in, why does science or any form of study exist? Why is my statement bothersome to you?

Finding truths through observation does not cast judgement on others. Interpretation cast judgment on the facts. I see no basis for your claim that someone cannot progress in understanding without judging other people. You have confused categories, and therefore your claim of a contradiction fails.
Finding truth in no way implies that "other opinions are not welcome".

I'll only mention in passing that you yourself have cast judgement on my opinion. Can I assume that you have judged me as well?

 

[azblackbird]

He is using (abusing) his employer's platform to express his personal disrespect for the anthem of the nation that has brought him wealth and fame, a disrespect which is not shared by a good portion of his employer's customers and hence a direct slap in the face to them, those who pay money to make him rich. He causes upset and divisiveness in an arena that should be for entertainment and relaxation.

Standing for the anthem doesn't mean you have to agree with everything the U.S. has ever done or is currently doing. But not standing for it demonstrates contempt for that which it symbolizes: A nation born out of the desire for Liberty. I'll have no truck with that; if you hate this country that much, get out.

The Rights enumerated in the Constitution are the black man's best hope. The Anthem celebrates a few white men breaking from the tyranny of a king, it does not celebrate the fact that some of them owned slaves. It took another century to see the light with respect to race which was more about recognizing that ethnic Africans were in fact fully human than about there being anything wrong with the Constitution or the concept of individual liberty.

So if you cannot grasp all this or at the very least fake the body motions of an opening ceremony (just stand, cross your fingers behind your back if you must) to an event benefiting you financially enough to keep you richer than 99% of your white "oppressors" then yes, what you are doing is wrong. I may agree with your opinions about too many blacks being incarcerated but this method of protest is counterproductive. Use your own money to buy your own billboards. Keep it out of the games.

Daaayyyyyuuummm @Rushie ... that was very well stated!

 

[azblackbird]

I'll only mention in passing that you yourself have cast judgement on my opinion. Can I assume that you have judged me as well?

Daaaaayyyuummm @Cooter ... you're just itching for a debate aren't ya. I'd debate you but I don't think we'd have anything much to debate about.

 

[Clark1961]

Our point of contention is that you thought I disrespected you and your opinion because I disagreed with it. I intended no disrespect in my disagreement and don't believe my words conveyed it. I agree with your point about owning multiple guns, I have many myself (maybe). I just don't think anti-gun folks buy that argument.

There you go again making the same claim that I thought you disrespected me because you disagreed with my opinion. I never said that. I never implied that. That position exists only in your mind. You showed disrespect (and continue to show disrespect) when you said/say that your opinion was the only acceptable one.

I don’t mind disagreement. I do mind people who tell me I have to think the same thing that they do. You have repeatedly said that what you think is the only way to approach the debate. Guess what, other people have other opinions and they are just as valid as yours. It’s called free speech. When you attempt to suppress my opinion then I’m going to tell you just exactly how it is. You obviously don’t like my response and can’t accept it. Tough.

 

[Clark1961]

Standing for the anthem doesn't mean you have to agree with everything the U.S. has ever done or is currently doing. But not standing for it demonstrates contempt for that which it symbolizes: A nation born out of the desire for Liberty. I'll have no truck with that; if you hate this country that much, get out.

I see no contempt in not standing for a national anthem. I see indifference at worst and protest at best. This country was born out of protest. Continuing that tradition is not innately wrong.