Amusing exchange

[DaleB]

From another conversation today, discussing the sound of startup of our cars...

Him: Mine starts like an aircraft engine.

Me: You mean, it sits there and chugs slowly for a minute or so, you hear muffled cursing as the pilot (driver) messes with the primer and mixture, half a dozen more rotations, then a big puff of black smoke and the smell of burnt oil and half-burned gasoline while it shakes the hell out of the car until it's warmed up?

That's how most of them do it.

 

[AggieMike88]

Years ago, I used to be able to determine which Chevy, Ford, or Chrysler carb'd engine was driving by based on the sound.

Now I'm slowly gaining the same acuity on airplane engines as they taxi by.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I have to laugh.

Coming out of the auto industry - simply starting with a couple seconds or less of cranking was not acceptable - you couldn't have a car that started after 1/4 second one time, then a second the next - the inconsistency would be a dis-satisfier. I don't remember the numbers any more, but there were pretty strict targets on crank time repeatability.

Then you get into aircraft that won't hot start at all unless you rub the fuel servo with a chicken bone, hop on one foot, and say "toot toot toot".

 

[wanttaja]

I was shopping for a car stereo once, and the salesman said, "This is aircraft quality." He couldn't understand why I couldn't stop laughing....

Ron Wanttaja

 

[DaleB]

The context here is a Mercedes V12. Unlike anything else I've heard, with these you get a fraction of a second of what sounds like a little starter spin-up before it engages and the engine rotates. Almost like a little turbine-y sound before start. From what I have heard they all do it.

 

[Pilawt]

Coming out of the auto industry - simply starting with a couple seconds or less of cranking was not acceptable - you couldn't have a car that started after 1/4 second one time, then a second the next - the inconsistency would be a dis-satisfier. I don't remember the numbers any more, but there were pretty strict targets on crank time repeatability.

Then you get into aircraft that won't hot start at all unless you rub the fuel servo with a chicken bone, hop on one foot, and say "toot toot toot".

I don't think I want one of those new cars that shut off the engine every time you stop at a stop sign. I'm old enough to remember sweating every re-start of some of my old cars ... let alone airplanes!

I was shopping for a car stereo once, and the salesman said, "This is aircraft quality." He couldn't understand why I couldn't stop laughing....

Yeah ... half as good, four times as expensive?

 

[RyanB]

From another conversation today, discussing the sound of startup of our cars...

Him: Mine starts like an aircraft engine.

Me: You mean, it sits there and chugs slowly for a minute or so, you hear muffled cursing as the pilot (driver) messes with the primer and mixture, half a dozen more rotations, then a big puff of black smoke and the smell of burnt oil and half-burned gasoline while it shakes the hell out of the car until it's warmed up?

That's how most of them do it.

Hahaha that’s great!

 

[Half Fast]

Yeah ... half as good, four times as expensive?

You forgot 1940s technology....

 

[Stingray Don]

Then you get into aircraft that won't hot start at all unless you rub the fuel servo with a chicken bone, hop on one foot, and say "toot toot toot".

Thanks for the tip. I’ll have to try that next time.

 

[Half Fast]

Then you get into aircraft that won't hot start at all unless you rub the fuel servo with a chicken bone, hop on one foot, and say "toot toot toot".

Will a rooster bone work?

 

[SoonerAviator]

Well, you can generally tell when a Jeep with the 4.0L I6 was firing up from a mile away. The starter has a pretty identifiable whine to it. I can usually tell whether it's an LS-equipped Camaro/Firebird or a 4.6L/5.0L Mustang by the sound of the engine/exhaust. You hear enough of something, you're bound to start picking up on the unique identifiers.

 

[Bill]

All the old mopars had a distinctive starter sound, easy to tell.

 

[Bill]

From another conversation today, discussing the sound of startup of our cars...

Him: Mine starts like an aircraft engine.

He needs three hands to hot start it?

 

[Sam D]

Will a rooster bone work?

Only on a full moon. And then you also have to burn some sage which can be a hassle.

 

[JD318]

I don't think I want one of those new cars that shut off the engine every time you stop at a stop sign.

I'm still not sure how I feel about it. It is certainly different than what I am used to.

 

[Half Fast]

I'm still not sure how I feel about it. It is certainly different than what I am used to.

I've had rental cars that shut off when stopped. I absolutely hate them. It causes a moment of hesitation when pulling away from a stop into oncoming traffic, and I find that dangerous. I've learned to release the brake and restart the engine while waiting at a stop.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

I kinda don’t care how it starts, I jus don’t want it to stop!!

 

[bnt83]

I tell ya what, as an aircraft mechanic, the way the O320E2D in the cardinal starts does annoy me. The 182 and a friends 177B almost start like a new car in comparison.

The 182 has two primer nozzles for 6 cylinder IIRC, the 177B has three primer nozzles for 4 cylinders, and my 177 has one nozzle in one cylinder out of 4. All three airplanes have dual impulse coupled magnetos and a carburetor. Maybe the sweet spot on the E2D is just a lot smaller than the others but it rarely starts as easily. Thank god its a Lycoming and I don't have to worry about the starter fodding out the engine like Continental in the 182 could.

My 1998 Chevy lumina doesn't always hot start good. Cold is fine, even bitter cold winters.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I've had rental cars that shut off when stopped. I absolutely hate them. It causes a moment of hesitation when pulling away from a stop into oncoming traffic, and I find that dangerous. I've learned to release the brake and restart the engine while waiting at a stop.

I don't like driving the auto-stop vehicles, but most of them will restart if you relax pressure on the brake pedal but not actually release the brakes. This way you can have the engine start a few seconds before you actually intend to begin accelerating. At least the usually provide a button to turn of the auto-stop function, but it has to be pressed each time you get in the car which is a pain.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I don't think I want one of those new cars that shut off the engine every time you stop at a stop sign. I'm old enough to remember sweating every re-start of some of my old cars ... let alone airplanes!



Yeah ... half as good, four times as expensive?

Well, and considering that 90% of an engine's wear occurs at start up....

 

[SkyDog58]

Well, and considering that 90% of an engine's wear occurs at start up....

Cold starts cause a lot of wear. A start on an engine that was just running, hardly any.

 

[Pilawt]

Cold starts cause a lot of wear. A start on an engine that was just running, hardly any.

How about the wear on a starter that gets used a dozen times on a quick three-mile trip to the Piggly Wiggly?

 

[skier]

I don't like driving the auto-stop vehicles, but most of them will restart if you relax pressure on the brake pedal but not actually release the brakes. This way you can have the engine start a few seconds before you actually intend to begin accelerating. At least the usually provide a button to turn of the auto-stop function, but it has to be pressed each time you get in the car which is a pain.

You can also turn the fan speed on heat or ac to full blast. That also prevents it from turning off.

Or you can use the handbrake when stopped at a traffic light and have your foot off the brake.

I’ve had a few discussions with coworkers about this recently.

 

[SkyDog58]

How about the wear on a starter that gets used a dozen times on a quick three-mile trip to the Piggly Wiggly?

Well I would imagine the starter would definitely wear faster. But the engine fires up quickly so the duty cycle is short.

 

[DaleB]

How about the wear on a starter that gets used a dozen times on a quick three-mile trip to the Piggly Wiggly?

The only one we have had that does the start/stop thing was my wife's Fusion hybrid. Pretty sure it used the electric drive motor to start the gas engine. I have read the the newer/larger Mercedes sense which piston is on the compression stroke and fire that plug to bump start the engine -- not certain how accurate that is.

In any case, I would guess (I would certainly hope) the engineers who designed the powertrain were not totally ignorant or exceptionally stupid, and took these things into consideration. Older systems were not designed for frequent stop/start, newer ones are.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

How about the wear on a starter that gets used a dozen times on a quick three-mile trip to the Piggly Wiggly?

Those starters are designed for the extra duty cycle. I haven't seen a rash of start/stop starter failures.

BTW, the start/stop process (and soundproofing) on my wife's Volt is seamless. Unless I look at the gauges, I usually have no idea if the engine has started or not at a stop.

Chevy did a good job on that one.

 

[Half Fast]

...I would guess (I would certainly hope) the engineers who designed the powertrain were not totally ignorant or exceptionally stupid, ...

I once owned a Ford Taurus. I have little confidence in the ability of engineers in the automotive industry.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I once owned a Ford Taurus. I have little confidence in the ability of engineers in the automotive industry.

Depends on which Taurus you owned. The SHO models are a blast, but could use a diet on the curb weight. The '91 SHO+ model I had in high school had a decent sound system, electronic HVAC, and a 220HP Yamaha aluminum V6/5-spd manual tranny that could run nose-to-nose with my friends stock 5.0L 'Stangs. The newer EB V6 models are pretty sporty, too, especially after some cheap performance tuning upgrades.

 

[GRG55]

...Then you get into aircraft that won't hot start at all unless you rub the fuel servo with a chicken bone, hop on one foot, and say "toot toot toot".

I don't see anything wrong with this at all...as long as the pilot gets the order correct.

I don't think I want one of those new cars that shut off the engine every time you stop at a stop sign...

I hate those things. I rented a Ford in Houston a few weeks ago that had that "feature". Shuddered to a halt every time I stopped, shuddered back to life every time I took my foot off the brake following a stop.

Hell, if I wanted to be shaken up like that I'd just buy an airplane...

 

[Hang 4]

One cheat on the auto stop is to turn the steering wheel just a touch, usually starts it right up.

 

[Pilawt]

Then you get into aircraft that won't hot start at all unless you rub the fuel servo with a chicken bone, hop on one foot, and say "toot toot toot".

That technique works only during a total solar eclipse. Any other time it's a lot more complicated.

 

[Ghery]

Well, you can generally tell when a Jeep with the 4.0L I6 was firing up from a mile away. The starter has a pretty identifiable whine to it.

That assumes that the battery isn't dead, in which case what you hear is my cussing as I return to the garage to grab the battery charger (again). I've got to drive that thing more often than once every month or two.

That technique works only during a total solar eclipse. Any other time it's a lot more complicated.

I wouldn't know. When there was a total solar eclipse in 2017 we watched it from the air at 7500 MSL. I didn't need to start the engine during the eclipse.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

My BMW defaults to not doing the auto-stop unless I put it in economy mode. But who would ever do that?

I usually leave the auto-stop off unless I know I am going to hit a long light. I have two of those on my commute so I put it on and off before and after the light. Gives me something to do instead of cursing the inept drivers around me.

 

[jsstevens]

Will a rooster bone work?

Is it a Lycoming or Continental?

 

[jsstevens]

I was shopping for a car stereo once, and the salesman said, "This is aircraft quality." He couldn't understand why I couldn't stop laughing....

Ron Wanttaja

I remember seeing a "Computer grade components" sticker on stereo equipment and having a similar reaction. Digital is so much more forgiving than analog...