Amphibian types and recommendations

SoonerAviator said:
Well, if you have a lake home and want to make it there faster, the seaplane may be a great way to get door-to-door quickly. If I had unlimited monies, it'd certainly be a consideration to have a nice seaplane to pull right up to my dock on the lake. As a primary aircraft? Not so much, unless you make frequent trips to a specific location on/near the water.
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Go get some time in a nice amphib, it’ll change ya, just having the option and that additional freedom really changes things, also I find you have one heck of a ramp presence.

I could pick up 30kts swapping my amphibs out in the winter for my normal wheels, have yet to bother.

Also saftey wise, a emergencyoff field landing with floats or gear up amphibs, even in a plowed farm, frozen lake, gravel, soft sand, floats are about as safe as you can get, near zero chance of flipping and you stop FAST.

 
I am of course quite aware that amphibs are compromises and that you take a hit on speed. What I and any other pilot must do when considering such a purchase is how much of a speed hit am I willing to take in exchange for a lot more fun.

Just as an example, let’s say my typical longest flight is 300 NM. The trip will take 2 hours at 150 knots and 2.5 hours at 120 knots. To me that is acceptable and worth it to have a seaplane.

Now if I flew much longer flights and did so frequently then perhaps I’d have a different opinion. But even making a rare longer flight to OSH or S-n-F for example would not impact my opinion. Those are not every day or every week or every month occurrences. Heck maybe not even every year.

If I need to make an occasional longer trip and make it quickly, I can still rent. Being an owner does not preclude renting when necessary.

So, all the thoughts on speed are really moot for me.
 
Cam Bender said:
I am of course quite aware that amphibs are compromises and that you take a hit on speed. What I and any other pilot must do when considering such a purchase is how much of a speed hit am I willing to take in exchange for a lot more fun.

Just as an example, let’s say my typical longest flight is 300 NM. The trip will take 2 hours at 150 knots and 2.5 hours at 120 knots. To me that is acceptable and worth it to have a seaplane.

Now if I flew much longer flights and did so frequently then perhaps I’d have a different opinion. But even making a rare longer flight to OSH or S-n-F for example would not impact my opinion. Those are not every day or every week or every month occurrences. Heck maybe not even every year.

If I need to make an occasional longer trip and make it quickly, I can still rent. Being an owner does not preclude renting when necessary.

So, all the thoughts on speed are really moot for me.
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Or get something like a skywagon and take half a day and swap out to 8.5s
 
If anyone here is actually serious about wanting a Lake I know of one that has been sitting but it has been in heated storage the entire time. If I can find a buyer (even if you just want to part it out) I might then be able to get the nice hangar that it is sitting in :) It is in Minnesota. They sure are cool looking planes. When I see that big pusher engine up on top I think of Fantasy Island for some reason.
 
Sinistar said:
If anyone here is actually serious about wanting a Lake I know of one that has been sitting but it has been in heated storage the entire time. If I can find a buyer (even if you just want to part it out) I might then be able to get the nice hangar that it is sitting in :) It is in Minnesota. They sure are cool looking planes. When I see that big pusher engine up on top I think of Fantasy Island for some reason.
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The lake police (GRDA) on Grand Lake in OK used to operate a Lake and would land on the water to issue citations, lol. Even the triple-engine go fasts can't outrun a Lake Amphibian/Buc. They later got rid of it and swapped for a helicopter on floats to direct their officers on the water to pursue violators.
 
SoonerAviator said:
The lake police (GRDA) on Grand Lake in OK used to operate a Lake and would land on the water to issue citations, lol. Even the triple-engine go fasts can't outrun a Lake Amphibian/Buc. They later got rid of it and swapped for a helicopter on floats to direct their officers on the water to pursue violators.
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That sounds like a great investment in taxpayers resources .....
 
James331 said:
That sounds like a great investment in taxpayers resources .....
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It's good work if you can get it I suppose! They do manage 2 or 3 lakes and a navigation channel, so I suppose there is some possible merit to it. I doubt there's any real "justification" for it though.
 
SoonerAviator said:
It's good work if you can get it I suppose! They do manage 2 or 3 lakes and a navigation channel, so I suppose there is some possible merit to it. I doubt there's any real "justification" for it though.
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Sounds like something you’d only do if it was paid for, via threat of violence, by other people’s money.
 
James331 said:
Sounds like something you’d only do if it was paid for, via threat of violence, by other people’s money.
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Well, the GRDA is runs a few hydroelectric dams and associated transmission lines, so I'm sure inspection of those assets as well as lake shoreline/environmental surveys are warranted. The run a Bell 206 and an R44 these days.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Well, the GRDA is runs a few hydroelectric dams and associated transmission lines, so I'm sure inspection of those assets as well as lake shoreline/environmental surveys are warranted. The run a Bell 206 and an R44 these days.
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That’s a bit different than swarming down on some teens goofing around on a ski boat
 
Cam Bender said:
You do make a good case for your plane. What is needed to do the swap out?
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It’s not unique to mine, but a lift to hoist it up via 4 eye bolts, both sets of landing gear, bolts, disconnect some wires and hydraulic lines getting capped off.

 
Tom-D said:
No the last time I did any water work was in one of these
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I bet that would be fun to fly if I just had my multi engine seaplane rating. I’m jealous. Is that what you got your rating in or have you flown other seaplane twins?
 
Cam Bender said:
I bet that would be fun to fly if I just had my multi engine seaplane rating. I’m jealous. Is that what you got your rating in or have you flown other seaplane twins?
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no, the CFI that I was working with had a gear up at OKH and that bird never flew again, it still sets in the same hangar, since 1999.

There are two Republics at OKH for sale, that twin, and a 0-540 powered single.
both are projects, neither are worth the asking prices.(IMHO)
 
Tom-D said:
no, the CFI that I was working with had a gear up at OKH and that bird never flew again, it still sets in the same hangar, since 1999.

There are two Republics at OKH for sale, that twin, and a 0-540 powered single.
both are projects, neither are worth the asking prices.(IMHO)
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It did that much damage?

Zero knowledge about the bees, but most float/amphibs it’s mostly just damage to the keel strip.
 
James331 said:
It did that much damage?

Zero knowledge about the bees, but most float/amphibs it’s mostly just damage to the keel strip.
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this was the second or third wheels up on pavement, it got the lower skins at the rear and some of the rear bulkhead at the step.
the keel beam and both lower skins must be replaced, plus a repair of the rear bulkhead.
the owner and CFI got into a Pizzing contest and both walked away. It never got repaired.
In the mean time the battery froze and dumped acid down the rear fuselage, and that rotted away.

The single needs an annual, has been out of annual for several years, it's just setting in the weeds, rotting.
I do not know what problems it has.
 
Tom-D said:
this was the second or third wheels up on pavement, it got the lower skins at the rear and some of the rear bulkhead at the step.
the keel beam and both lower skins must be replaced, plus a repair of the rear bulkhead.
the owner and CFI got into a Pizzing contest and both walked away. It never got repaired.
In the mean time the battery froze and dumped acid down the rear fuselage, and that rotted away.

The single needs an annual, has been out of annual for several years, it's just setting in the weeds, rotting.
I do not know what problems it has.
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Not in the market myself, but I’d think with good marketing having a unique looking twin engine amphib that doesn’t burn too much fuel would be a great purchase for someone looking to have a fun side/retirement CFI and sightseeing gig.
 
James331 said:
Not in the market myself, but I’d think with good marketing having a unique looking twin engine amphib that doesn’t burn too much fuel would be a great purchase for someone looking to have a fun side/retirement CFI and sightseeing gig.
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I believe there were 24 of the twin bee placed on the type certificate, but only 12 or 13 were made.
In order to fly this one, it would require 2 Lycoming 0-360-/180 horse engines and 2 new reversing props plus the fuselage repaired, well over $100K, that is why it still sets there.
 
Tom-D said:
I believe there were 24 of the twin bee placed on the type certificate, but only 12 or 13 were made.
In order to fly this one, it would require 2 Lycoming 0-360-/180 horse engines and 2 new reversing props plus the fuselage repaired, well over $100K, that is why it still sets there.
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They yanked the engines eh?

Frankly though, if it was 100k in repairs and you could get the plane for 10-20, that actually could be a nice little come up.

Here’s one with higher time TSMOH engines going for 150k

https://www.barnstormers.com/Amphibian, Seabee Classifieds.htm
 
James331 said:
It did that much damage?

Zero knowledge about the bees, but most float/amphibs it’s mostly just damage to the keel strip.
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It's not always about how much damage a plane suffers but rather a lot of times when a plane is damaged at an airport that lacks a major shop or a really good mechanic with type knowledge, they are more likely to end up sitting long term without being repaired. Owners can get brain freeze or analysis paralysis and time passes and before you know it several years have slipped by and now it really is junk. Happens all the time.

James331 said:
Not in the market myself, but I’d think with good marketing having a unique looking twin engine amphib that doesn’t burn too much fuel would be a great purchase for someone looking to have a fun side/retirement CFI and sightseeing gig.
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I agree. As long as it flies decently and isn't a money pit, I think it would be cool to own and fly something that is unique or rare. Something that turns heads and attracts a crowd at fly ins.
 
Cam Bender said:
It's not always about how much damage a plane suffers but rather a lot of times when a plane is damaged at an airport that lacks a major shop or a really good mechanic with type knowledge, they are more likely to end up sitting long term without being repaired. Owners can get brain freeze or analysis paralysis and time passes and before you know it several years have slipped by and now it really is junk. Happens all the time.



I agree. As long as it flies decently and isn't a money pit, I think it would be cool to own and fly something that is unique or rare. Something that turns heads and attracts a crowd at fly ins.
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The pilots that need a twin sea rating get them from the company they work for. or if they buy a twin they train in the one they bought. there really isn't any need for a twin sea bee anymore.
They are very awkward in the water, when you turn right the left float dips in the water and the aircraft doesn't like to turn.
but it will get 4 fat folks a weeks worth of groceries and a big lab dog out of the water in 11 seconds.
but to know the legal useful load is 800 pounds, and all of that is fuel.
 
Cam Bender said:
It's not always about how much damage a plane suffers but rather a lot of times when a plane is damaged at an airport that lacks a major shop or a really good mechanic with type knowledge, they are more likely to end up sitting long term without being repaired.
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The only reason this one didn't get repaired was that the CFI would not turn it into his insurance company, because he would have lost his coverage. and the owner would not pursue the issue.
904Y was the N but it has now been deregistered.
 
Tom-D said:
The pilots that need a twin sea rating get them from the company they work for. or if they buy a twin they train in the one they bought. there really isn't any need for a twin sea bee anymore.
They are very awkward in the water, when you turn right the left float dips in the water and the aircraft doesn't like to turn.
but it will get 4 fat folks a weeks worth of groceries and a big lab dog out of the water in 11 seconds.
but to know the legal useful load is 800 pounds, and all of that is fuel.
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TONS of people get fun ratings they don’t use after, I’d say the majority of weekend seaplane courses, lots of gliders guys, weekend aerobatic, MES would be the same with a good website and maybe combine a B n’ B kinda thing.
 
James331 said:
TONS of people get fun ratings they don’t use after, I’d say the majority of weekend seaplane courses, lots of gliders guys, weekend aerobatic, MES would be the same with a good website and maybe combine a B n’ B kinda thing.
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I can agree with that. I know a couple of guys with seaplane ratings who never used it after passing their checkride. The reason I want to buy a seaplane is to not be one of those guys. It's easier to fly one if you own one. Though if I got my MES, I'd probably be one of those guys but hey who cares? It's still be fun to get the rating.
 
Sinistar said:
If anyone here is actually serious about wanting a Lake I know of one that has been sitting but it has been in heated storage the entire time. If I can find a buyer (even if you just want to part it out) I might then be able to get the nice hangar that it is sitting in :) It is in Minnesota. They sure are cool looking planes. When I see that big pusher engine up on top I think of Fantasy Island for some reason.
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Do tell - I'm in the market!
 
Cam Bender said:
There does seem to be quite a few out there on floats. Would you say that the 180 is the minimum of the single engine Cessnas that would make a good float plane? I have seen some 172s on floats advertised though they seem to be a small number. How about the 172XP with it’s bigger engine?
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I learned in a Citabria on floats and the 172XP is the only other float plane that I have flown. It had the STC that increased the HP to 210 and it performed really well though it was just the owner and me in it at the time. It's definitely an option if you don't plan on carrying a heavy load.

Kansas Flyer said:
I'm ignorant when it comes to float planes, but wouldn't putting a 182 on floats be a little better than a 180 or 185 just to have the extra cabin width?
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Wipaire puts floats on 182s quite often. They also do other mods on them as well. I'd take one in a heartbeat if I could afford it.
 
Gilgamesh said:
Thanks!
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Okay, About all I know about this owner's Lake is that it is a Lake LA4-200. I believe it is at least 9yrs out of annual. At a crazy insane absolute minimum it would need new tires as I think 2 of the 3 are flat and look pretty dried up/cracked. As I said it has been stored heated and free of critters for the past 9yrs. But that doesn't just make the motor magically work or negate the need for 9yrs worth of AD's, etc. I found two pictures of it, not great but all I have. Keep in mind, I was looking at the hangar, not the plane. I sure thought it was a cool plane. I love how the gear retract up into he wings. Also, this guy is a inventor IIRC so ask him about his aviation invention+patent! I will PM you his email right after I get this posted.

LakeNose.jpg

LakeTail.jpg
 
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