AMEs advertising?

A

airheadpenguin

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airheadpenguin
I have to admit, I don't know the nuances around the AME culture so I was a little surprised to get a postcard in the mail from an AME that I don't know asserting that my medical was due to expire at the end of this month and that I should call him to schedule an appointment.

I checked into this a bit, my last AME is still in business and still an AME. Most astonishingly my medical is good for another 3 years. Seems a case of an AME in Dover NH trolling the database and trying to drum up business.

Is this sort of thing common?
 
they haven't figured out how to update their computer to calculate 5 years for an under 40 3rd class. the local guy here did the same thing to me last year.
 
I get several of them from many AMEs in St. Louis. Ones that I haven't ever been to. I don't get it either.
 
IMO the ones that have to advertise....well there's a reason why they have to advertise....There are a lot of services that will do that for an AME, for a fee. I have never figured out why an AME would do that.

The Sort of customer you get is very very much different, when you advertise.
 
The good old days

Remember when many of the professions frowned on advertising?
 
He runs a business, he advertises. What is new about that concept again ?
 
For a new AME, it's a relatively cheap way to get your name out there. I have to think docs like FAA physical appointments- relatively easy, not a ton of equipment needed, money paid up front (rate set by doc, not the insurance company), no hypochondriacs, etc. As we all know though, not all AMEs are created equal.
 
I'm just surprised since, to start with I concur with Bruce, and this seems like a small community that would frown on poaching
 
airheadpenguin said:
I'm just surprised since, to start with I concur with Bruce, and this seems like a small community that would frown on poaching
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Well they can frown all they want, just because its a small town does not give a monopoly to those who were there first. Its business, its not personal.
 
It always amazes me that few AMEs will "work the case". They just do the exam an "send it in". Never mind the consequences.
 
bbchien said:
IMO the ones that have to advertise....well there's a reason why they have to advertise....There are a lot of services that will do that for an AME, for a fee. I have never figured out why an AME would do that.

The Sort of customer you get is very very much different, when you advertise.
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Bruce, Welcome back. I must fully agree with you, but to be fair it is not only the AME's that advertise, but in the medical field most specialties. The worse seems to be the spine surgeons as far as I am concerned. Not a day goes by that I tell my patients that you can tell the quality aof a doctor by the amount of advertising they do. The ones that advertise tend to be the ones that need to advertise to get business, and there is a reason for that. The new trend is the local lectures that are given, which are just advertisements in disguise.

Then again I think the same goes for many professions. In this case doctors are not the only guilty ones.

Doug
 
I occasionally get a postcard from an AME, doesn't really bother me. From an advertising point of view, it's a pretty cheap way to get in front of people that you know need your particular service and when they need it! :D I'd love to have a data base of people that will be needing a new car sorted by the month in which they will need it :wink2: I've used 3 AME's in my 28 years of flying, the first one lost his license, the second one was too busy to get an appointment, he's an eye doctor, and the one I'm using now is a GP and3 out of 5 docs in his group that are AME's! :D
 
airheadpenguin said:
I have to admit, I don't know the nuances around the AME culture so I was a little surprised to get a postcard in the mail from an AME that I don't know asserting that my medical was due to expire at the end of this month and that I should call him to schedule an appointment.

I checked into this a bit, my last AME is still in business and still an AME. Most astonishingly my medical is good for another 3 years. Seems a case of an AME in Dover NH trolling the database and trying to drum up business.

Is this sort of thing common?
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Pretty much I suppose as I get them as well. No worries to me, if he wants to let me know he's there, I'm fine with that.
 
airheadpenguin said:
I'm just surprised since, to start with I concur with Bruce, and this seems like a small community that would frown on poaching
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Well, considering that old docs leave the business and new ones get in, it's not necessarily poaching. I agree with Bruce, however that only covers one of the aspects of why one would advertise.
 
N747JB said:
From an advertising point of view, it's a pretty cheap way to get in front of people that you know need your particular service and when they need it! :D :D
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It is really not that cheap, compared to it's effectiveness (about 1% return). One campaign can cost thousands of dollars, with printing and postage. My company moved away from mailers several years ago. Email campaigns and social marketing are much more cost effective.
 
I find this sort of surprising. I assumed that AMEs did medicals out of a sense of giving back to the piloting community as an enthusiast -- and I always act as though they're losing money on my $60 medical -- I assumed they were. Surely there is more to be made on normal care, given the size of the bills I've seen flying around on my behalf at the PPO.

Are there more expensive services an AME can provide that I haven't seen/needed yet, which justify an ad campaign? I can't imagine stumping for that business :)
 
schmookeeg said:
I find this sort of surprising. I assumed that AMEs did medicals out of a sense of giving back to the piloting community as an enthusiast -- and I always act as though they're losing money on my $60 medical -- I assumed they were. Surely there is more to be made on normal care, given the size of the bills I've seen flying around on my behalf at the PPO.

Are there more expensive services an AME can provide that I haven't seen/needed yet, which justify an ad campaign? I can't imagine stumping for that business :)
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Most charge more than $60, at least in my area. Mine was $125, I think, for about 10 minutes with the Dr. The rest was with his nurse.
 
schmookeeg said:
I find this sort of surprising. I assumed that AMEs did medicals out of a sense of giving back to the piloting community as an enthusiast -- and I always act as though they're losing money on my $60 medical -- I assumed they were. Surely there is more to be made on normal care, given the size of the bills I've seen flying around on my behalf at the PPO.

Are there more expensive services an AME can provide that I haven't seen/needed yet, which justify an ad campaign? I can't imagine stumping for that business :)
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As with any profession you have multiple reasons for people entering. Many AMes charge double what you quote, and typically the time spent with the doctor is 10 minutes or less with the nurse doing the work up that takes less than half an hour.

If you figure the doc at $120hr and the nurse at $20 hr that is $30 in time cost. That leaves plenty of money for my share of the overhead.

For most AMEs that is just a small portion of their practice.
 
Henning said:
As with any profession you have multiple reasons for people entering. Many AMes charge double what you quote, and typically the time spent with the doctor is 10 minutes or less with the nurse doing the work up that takes less than half an hour.

If you figure the doc at $120hr and the nurse at $20 hr that is $30 in time cost. That leaves plenty of money for my share of the overhead.

For most AMEs that is just a small portion of their practice.
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You clearly have no clue how much it costs to run a medical practice, but I can assure you that a doctor whose practice is bringing in $120 an hour is probably losing money and not covering his salary. At $120 an hour he/she is bringing in about $350,000 a year(assuming he works 8 hours per day and takes no vacation and no days off. From that he has to pay for his/her office, office staff, multiple different insurances(malpractice, health, unemployment), utilities, CME and licensure expenses, office supplies, accountant, costs of governmental and insurance regulation, employee benefits, etc. Furthermore, if he is seeing patients 8 hours a day then he is working 12 to 14 hours days, after returning phonecall, filling out patient related forms, and all the other things that occur after the patients and staff leaves(which he gets no reimbursement for).

Ignorance must be bliss.
 
$120 hr IS the salary of the MD I was using. The practice income is significantly higher at most of the Drs around here when you figure (my observation) 4- 6 patients an hour through the office with a minimum fee of $120 for the office visit alone. Don't tell me about insurance costs either, there isn't one doctor around here that carries it and they all have signs on the door stating such.
 
Henning said:
$120 hr IS the salary of the MD I was using. The practice income is significantly higher at most of the Drs around here when you figure (my observation) 4- 6 patients an hour through the office with a minimum fee of $120 for the office visit alone. Don't tell me about insurance costs either, there isn't one doctor around here that carries it and they all have signs on the door stating such.
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What doctors charge and what they get are two completely different things. Most times they are lucky if they get 50% of what they charge. Even in the Broward/Dade county area more doctors than you think still have malpractice insurance. Even if they do not, malpractice insurance is only one of the insurances a doctor has to pay for, and if they do not carry it, Florida requires them to have something in place so that if they are sued the patient can collect. You are a business owner, they have to carry many of the same insurances you have that are not related to the type of business you own.

Doug
 
Medicals are ok money. The key with them is that they are cash or credit card up front and not after 6 months and two denials from your cheapskate HMO. Collection and billing cost is pretty much 0.

They are similar to immigration or pre-employment physicals and disability determinations in that way. Someone comes, you provide a service, you get paid. At least on the business side, a lot less aggravation and expense than regular medical patients.

The other aspect is of course opportunity cost of doing them. If you are a surgeon and they fill up your schedule (displacing potential surgical patients that provide your margin), it's a bad deal. If you are a PCP and all they displace are capitated HMO patients (which you see for free), it's a great deal.
 
weilke said:
He runs a business, he advertises. What is new about that concept again ?
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Nothing is new about it. I'm surprised that people are surprised. Marketing need not be explicit or deliberate to exist.

Many marketing consultants now advise that if you have a service you want to market, you need to have some presence here on the net. Specific advise I've seen is to create a website with plenty of relevant free material, thus making the web site have a higher probability of showing up in searches. The extra material also makes the service provider appear as expert, knowledgeable, and generous. Consultants also advise the service provider to join appropriate social networks and provide their expertise and advise - and suppress any urge they have to actually push their services.

Expertise and free advise for services that are normally offered only for a fee is, as I understand it, effective marketing because it employs the sociological principles of reciprocity and authority - at least according to what I've read in Robert Cialdini's Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion.

Doctor Chien seems to have marketed himself in a manner that aligns with modern best practices, yet his occasionally brusque posting style indicates he never consciously intended to market himself. The online endorsements from many of the people who stated they went to him for help are evidence of the success of that style of marketing - even if the marketing wasn't deliberate. The endorsements would likely provide additional marketing advantage because of what Cialdini calls the principles of social proof and liking.

Getting a postcard from an AME you've never dealt with is just not terribly effective. John mentioned 1% effective rate for direct mail - as I understand it, that would be considered a very successful direct mail return rate.

I got a postcard this summer from an AME whose office was 40 miles away. Naturally he was throwing away good money on such a campaign. I doubt he would be getting anywhere near 1% response rate. If he did what Bruce is doing, I'm pretty sure he'd be a lot more successful.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Doctor Chien seems to have marketed himself in a manner that aligns with modern best practices, yet his occasionally brusque posting style indicates he never consciously intended to market himself.
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Jim, most of my business is airline guys....:yesnod:. And, I've had a bit o'A career myself, too. By the time a career pilot reaches his late 50s, he pretty much needs an AME dedicated to keeping him on the flight deck.

Try to remember I'm a retired doc. I don't need much revenue. And I certainly don't need to waste time with wise-___ commentary. Yuh, and I know I can be brusque when my time gets wasted. What counts, is airmen who can be counted as "otherwise could never certify".

In the words of a younger sister, each one is a "HAH!". (as in, "see, we did it"):yes:
 
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airheadpenguin said:
I have to admit, I don't know the nuances around the AME culture so I was a little surprised to get a postcard in the mail from an AME that I don't know asserting that my medical was due to expire at the end of this month and that I should call him to schedule an appointment.

I checked into this a bit, my last AME is still in business and still an AME. Most astonishingly my medical is good for another 3 years. Seems a case of an AME in Dover NH trolling the database and trying to drum up business.

Is this sort of thing common?
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Yes. It's called marketing...just like the postcards for replacement windows or siding. Lots of businesses do it.
 
The AME I had been retired and I succumbed to going to one who sent me one of those postcards. The guy was the biggest piece of poop I've come across. In addition to lying to me, I found he did things that are against the AME rules. He also screwed things up royally for me that could have been fixed with a phone call. I'm with Bruce, I'd stay away from these guys.


The fact that these clowns even know when your medical expires is because the FAA steadfastly refuses to live within the bounds of their exemption to the privacy act.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Nothing is new about it. I'm surprised that people are surprised. Marketing need not be explicit or deliberate to exist.

Many marketing consultants now advise that if you have a service you want to market, you need to have some presence here on the net.
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Looking around at any GA airport, I see lots of rather 'mature' pilots whose only nod to the interwebs is that they will use email if forced. Those are the guys who call up the tower to get the notams and complain bitterly that the company that made those small ring-bound VFR airport directories went out of business.

Not everyone lives on the web. When it comes to GA pilots, very few of them do. Marketing to someone in TX via the interwebs does nothing for a local doctors office.

In the zip codes that are of interest to me, there are 893 airmen. As I wouldn't send a postcard to myself, that leaves 892. A postcard, printed and mailed is less than a buck. If 6 guys show up based on the mailing, I am ahead.
 
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John221us said:
It is really not that cheap, compared to it's effectiveness (about 1% return). One campaign can cost thousands of dollars, with printing and postage. My company moved away from mailers several years ago. Email campaigns and social marketing are much more cost effective.
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I agree with most marketing this wouldn't be real cost effective, we used to do mail campaigns. But, for an AME, he's sending a postcard to a pilot with an expiring medical. I think his return rate would be much higher than a typical 1-2%. That's pretty targeted marketing! :D If you figure 500 pilots per zip code, maybe 1500 local to the AME, that 1500 postcards at $.75-1.00 each per year or some every three years, maybe he picks up 10-15 new patients per year, probably works out OK. ;)
 
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