Am I so wrong?

steingar

steingar

Taxi to Parking
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steingar
According to Mrs. Steingar, usually.

I was flying Young Eagles on Saturday, got in three flights with the airplane fully loaded, so nine kids. This was a very successful rally; I haven't seen that many aircraft on the ramp at my airport since they had IAE events. So lots and lots of traffic. Airplanes coming and going constantly. We flew a lot of kids.

So on flight number two of three I'm coming back in, and there's someone I don't know on the ramp. They're just standing there, between me and parking, off to the side. I would not have hit them taxiing, but wasn't certain that they belonged there or were trained, and there were a lot of people on the ramp that day.

It turned out that it was a local CFI with a student doing their 3 touch and goes for their first solo flight. Now here's where I wonder if I am so wrong. The airport was BUSY. This was a one day thing, the next day I'm certain there was hardly anyone there, and there are at least three other airports within a short flight all of which had little traffic. One is like mine, controlled. Wouldn't it have made more sense to go somewhere with less traffic for a first solo? I know the controller can help with separation, but with that much traffic they can muck it up pretty good too (I've seen it with less, and with that controller at my airport).

Just because we had our little event doesn't mean no one else could land at the airport. But if you were doing you student's first solo, would you really want it to be in the middle of a circus?
 
Lot's of students solo at busy fields. When I soloed at KLGB, there were at least 5 planes in the pattern on each 25L &25R as well as traffic on 31... as always.
 
Didn't notice, I doubt any of us did. We were really busy flying kids and not bonking into each other. Makes me think even more they should have gone elsewhere. Every time I've shared the pattern with a first solo, I've kept a close eye on the student. This time around I couldn't, like I said it was pretty busy, and I had kids.
 
Henning said:
Lot's of students solo at busy fields. When I soloed at KLGB, there were at least 5 planes in the pattern on each 25L &25R as well as traffic on 31... as always.
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Would you have done that if there was a virtually abandoned strip the same size just down the road?
 
steingar said:
Would you have done that if there was a virtually abandoned strip the same size just down the road?
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Yeah, pretty much did, Compton isn't 4 minutes away in a 152, Untowered, 25 L&R, hardly anyone ever there...
 
why keep such a close eye on a 1st solo. my experience instructing is the student is way more proficient and less likely to do something unexpected than a cert'd pilot.
 
Like Tony said Michael it depends on the student. When I did my first solo all taxi backs it was at PNE a class D. I was in the pattern with biz jets, and a bunch of GA.
 
tonycondon said:
why keep such a close eye on a 1st solo. my experience instructing is the student is way more proficient and less likely to do something unexpected than a cert'd pilot.
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Just paying forward, trying to be a good member of the community. Student pilots do get things turned around on occasion.
 
I did my first solo at KOAK, Oakland International, where I was based. I think I was more comfortable there than anywhere else just because that's where we had practiced the most.
 
I did my first solo when someone was taking their glider checkride and 2 other powered planes in the pattern.
 
If you train at a busy airport there should be no reason why you can't do your first solo at that busy airport.
 
I would say you should solo for the first time in normal conditions. If you are used to a barely used airport, its not smart to solo on a super busy day like that. If you are used to a busy airport, not much of a difference.
 
I have a video of my first solo in May and I was waiting at the hold short line while FIVE PLANES landed, so it was a very busy day at my little airport. My instructor didn't seem to care or think I could not handle the traffic. I just chose to wait for them since there was no one else in the run up area or on the taxiway - therefore, I wasn't holding anyone up and the last thing I wanted to do was jump in front of one of the 5 planes thinking I had enough time to take off in front of them. So I waited until there was a bigger opening and I could relax. Didn't exactly have the pattern to myself - but there were less planes. A lot of pilots land and have lunch at the restaurant on the field.
 
My first solo was at KFAT. Two sidesteps on short final, switching from 33R to 33L on departure, holding short for corp jets and T props, 360s on downwind for spacing, expedite departure for arriving commuters, TWR calling my base, plus sharing the patt with the usual 2 ship F-18 formations.

Yes I was busy but don't remember having tunnel vision or being task saturated. I was able to look around and actually felt in command. 10.2 TT. I was my CFI's very first student. Paul Chen was most excellent CFI.
 
If the tower is used to students training it's probably best to let the student be there. When I used to teach at Stinson we did it all the time. The tower could help lookout for traffic if the student got saturated. If the student is used to that, and you go to some little field and have some guy in the pattern unexpectedly, that could be just as big a danger.

Ryan
 
I soloed at KSEE (Gillespie Field), a very busy airport even without all the students. My brother took a photo of me on final for my first touch down. I was on 27L and in the photo is a war bird, right beside me going into 27R. I wish I knew how to post photos, or perhaps I wish I wasn't so lazy and would take the time to learn how.

I'm not so sure the risk factor is all that great on a first solo, what with your instructor right there watching your every move. It's the solo flights after that that are probably a whole lot more dangerous to the student and anyone else near or on the airport.

Learning at a busy controlled airport might be a whole lot more stressful to all concerned, but I think it probably produces better, safer, pilots.

John
 
John Baker said:
I soloed at KSEE (Gillespie Field), a very busy airport even without all the students. My brother took a photo of me on final for my first touch down. I was on 27L and in the photo is a war bird, right beside me going into 27R. I wish I knew how to post photos, or perhaps I wish I wasn't so lazy and would take the time to learn how.

I'm not so sure the risk factor is all that great on a first solo, what with your instructor right there watching your every move. It's the solo flights after that that are probably a whole lot more dangerous to the student and anyone else near or on the airport.

Learning at a busy controlled airport might be a whole lot more stressful to all concerned, but I think it probably produces better, safer, pilots.

John
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Click the advanced button and you should see an attachment button. Upload the file and WhaMmmmooooooo
 
Why should one individual or group have precedence over another? Perhaps the student was based at the field, and most comfortable flying and landing at their home field, compared to other fields?

My son and I were riding our bikes once on a non-movement area on our ramp during a local EAA flyin, nowhere the planes but right near our hangar, and some guy comes over and starts yelling at us and says we can't be there.

I asked why not, and he insisted that I couldn't, and was very aggressive like he was some sort of law enforcement or other authority. I again tried to explain that we had every right to be there on the non movement area near our hangar, and by the way where was his airport ID, and by what authority did he have to challenge us in the first place?

He never backed down or apologized, but it left a bad taste regarding future flyins.
 
My first solo was at a military airfield and I was mixing it up with three F111's and a C141 while I was in the pattern. On top of that the barrier was up at the departure end.

Only having a few Young Eagle flights in the pattern would have been a welcome event.
 
"but wasn't certain that they belonged there or were trained"

It turns out that they did belong there. And were adequately trained for standing on the ramp. I see no worries here, mate.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Click the advanced button and you should see an attachment button. Upload the file and WhaMmmmooooooo
Click to expand...

Well, that didn't work. I clicked on attachments, then I hit the brows button and it took me to my pictures. I clicked on the picture I wanted to insert and it appeared on the attachment manager with a "remove" beside it. I could not make it go to my post.

Sides, I'm bad enough being allowed to use words, you sure you want me to be able to post pictures?

John
 
steingar said:
Every time I've shared the pattern with a first solo, I've kept a close eye on the student.
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How would you know that? I mean, it's not as though they put "STUDENT DRIVER" stickers on the plane. My CFI didn't announce to the world that I was doing a first solo when I did mine.

As for busy airports...some people do their first solos from class C airports, sharing space with 757s and the like. Good idea? Shrug.

I once knew a guy who did his first solo from a busy commercial airport (I think it was in the 6m passengers/yr. range at the time) and his description of it went something like this: "It was the worst experience of my life. I was sweating bricks the whole time, just terrified, and once I got the plane on the ground I parked it and said, 'No more, I'm done.' and never took another lesson." Maybe not a great example now that I come to think on it....
 
ziege said:
How would you know that? I mean, it's not as though they put "STUDENT DRIVER" stickers on the plane. My CFI didn't announce to the world that I was doing a first solo when I did mine.
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The ones I know of the CFIs were talking to them on the CTAF and standing at the edge of the ramp.
 
tonycondon said:
why keep such a close eye on a 1st solo. my experience instructing is the student is way more proficient and less likely to do something unexpected than a cert'd pilot.
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+1. I've flown with plenty of certificated pilots that I would not sign off to solo.
 
ziege said:
As for busy airports...some people do their first solos from class C airports, sharing space with 757s and the like. Good idea? Shrug.
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I did all my primary training while based out of KABQ and we sometimes received clearances for option and did patterns, but only during less busy times of the day. I have no idea if the tower liked having us around, but they were always accomodating yet demanding: they would give us these clearances, but expect to take off right away, turn off immediately or roll down the length as cleared. I found it somewhat challenging, although fun. For my solo, my instructor took me to a satellite field KAEG.
 
ziege said:
Is that the majority of them though? I honestly don't know.
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Not mine. He took solo very seriously meaning he would not babysit or wonder if you would be ok, otherwise why would he sign you off?

He was not on CTAF, he was not even within sight of the runway. He was inside the maintenance hanger talking with a mechanic but he said he might even go home! No shirt cutting either, no real celebration. Finally got my name up on the board (they have a congrats).
 
Oh and I felt bad about hiding my camera from him so I confessed that I mounted it and filmed my landings, then showed him my landings and he said they looked just fine (though I was worried they sucked, especially the last one)
 
No shirt cutting, no bucket of water? What a disservice.
 
Henning said:
Yeah, nothing wrong in you vids... "Woo Hoo" indeed...
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Ha you only saw the first landing! And you saw me scream like a girl. Cute. Don't know how / why the "woo hoo" came out of my mouth but it just did. Sort of out of my control at that point. It was a "I am not dead" woo hoo after my first solo.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Not mine. ...
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Mine was about the same without the name on the board part. Once the CFI was out of the plane I was on my own. When a new plane came into the pattern he didn't intercede on my behalf...I don't think he was aware it happened even.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Ha you only saw the first landing! And you saw me scream like a girl. Cute. Don't know how / why the "woo hoo" came out of my mouth but it just did. Sort of out of my control at that point. It was a "I am not dead" woo hoo after my first solo.
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So... Where are 2&3? The one at the end of the tripto the practice area wasn't bad either. You need to be taking your checkride.
 
Henning said:
So... Where are 2&3? The one at the end of the tripto the practice area wasn't bad either. You need to be taking your checkride.
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Wow, thanks! That one was in a minor (9 knot) crosswind from the left, probably 30 - 50 degrees off centerline.

Two and three may never be published or you may take back your compliments. Honestly, the video editing took FOREVER because my video was 30 mins long and I wanted just a snippet of each takeoff / leg / landing. With music and pink letters. Being new to video editing I am still working on it. Again, not sure I want to show off my horrible "clunk" or my horrible "added power three times with balloons".

Kimberly
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Wow, thanks! That one was in a minor (9 knot) crosswind from the left, probably 30 - 50 degrees off centerline.

Two and three may never be published or you may take back your compliments. Honestly, the video editing took FOREVER because my video was 30 mins long and I wanted just a snippet of each takeoff / leg / landing. With music and pink letters. Being new to video editing I am still working on it. Again, not sure I want to show off my horrible "clunk" or my horrible "added power three times with balloons".

Kimberly
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Actually they are the more important to see. Not every landing comes out good for anyone, we all bounce some, we all drop them in some, what's important is how you handle it once it starts going wrong. Landing can be incredibly ugly while still being perfectly good.
 
Henning said:
Actually they are the more important to see. Not every landing comes out good for anyone, we all bounce some, we all drop them in some, what's important is how you handle it once it starts going wrong. Landing can be incredibly ugly while still being perfectly good.
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+1. It happens to all of us.
 
steingar said:
Wouldn't it have made more sense to go somewhere with less traffic for a first solo?
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Sometimes it's just not that simple.

Reason #1 is the fact that a pre-solo exam must include questions pertaining to the airport of endorsed solo.

And following up on that, the student would have had to have a sufficient amount of practice at another airport to feel comfortable enough to solo.

And you indicated it might have been better to wait another day. :hairraise:
Yeah, right.

When you're hot, you're hot.
When you're not, you're not.
 
John Baker said:
I soloed at KSEE (Gillespie Field), a very busy airport even without all the students. My brother took a photo of me on final for my first touch down. I was on 27L and in the photo is a war bird, right beside me going into 27R. I wish I knew how to post photos, or perhaps I wish I wasn't so lazy and would take the time to learn how.

I'm not so sure the risk factor is all that great on a first solo, what with your instructor right there watching your every move. It's the solo flights after that that are probably a whole lot more dangerous to the student and anyone else near or on the airport.

Learning at a busy controlled airport might be a whole lot more stressful to all concerned, but I think it probably produces better, safer, pilots.

John
Click to expand...


I did it, I don't know how I did it, but there is the photo. I'm driving the clunker on the right.

John
 

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