Am I nuts?

A

archi77

Filing Flight Plan
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Jason
Ok, I know I am a LITTLE nuts, but am I certifiable? :yikes:

I am considering a career change. I don't have a real desire to fly the Airline circuit (no offense to those that do) but would love to do something else commercial - maybe for FedEx, or even Corporate. I have taken a few introductory flights / flight lessons, and know that I love flying. But how unrealistic am I to consider getting into corporate aviation at 37 years of age? Am I just spinning my wheels? Are there age limits to the non-airline careers?

Any insight from others would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
 
I wouldn't say you are certifiable,
but . . .
It never hurts to look into it. Just don't quit your day job yet.
 
I had the same desire at your age (2 years ago). I didn't even care to fly the big boys or corporate - regional would've been fine. However, going into debt is expensive. :) ... there are plenty of single lads and ladies who can work for peanuts for 10 years. There are other things I can do, so I am doing other things. I like seeing my wife and kids (heck, I like having a wife & kids!).

You may not be crazy, but do your research, and make the best decision for you.
1) What will it cost to reach your goal (time, money, relationships, etc...)
2) What is it worth to you?
3) Is your goal able to be re-aligned within the industry and still make you happy?

If those three line up for you, you are probably not crazy. BUT at 37, all sorts of medical things start to creep into the picture for many folks. You'd hate to sacrifice for years and then loose your medical.
 
No, I don't think you're nuts, but if you want to fly freight, you'll be broke. That is if the UPS pilot on our small field is any indication.
 
Sure, go for it.

There are plenty of areas of aviation which pay better and are more rewarding compared to 121 work.

Just be Ok with your peers being you get then you.
 
archi77 said:
Ok, I know I am a LITTLE nuts, but am I certifiable? :yikes:

I am considering a career change. I don't have a real desire to fly the Airline circuit (no offense to those that do) but would love to do something else commercial - maybe for FedEx, or even Corporate. I have taken a few introductory flights / flight lessons, and know that I love flying. But how unrealistic am I to consider getting into corporate aviation at 37 years of age? Am I just spinning my wheels? Are there age limits to the non-airline careers?

Any insight from others would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
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Very unrealistic, not saying it can't happen, but the odds are stacked against you. The main issue is financial obligations over the next 7 years coupled with the $100,000 you are going to spend on aviation before you get there.

The main determinant though will come down to "who do you know" and "were you in the right place at the right time with the right qualifications"?
 
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I got my private at age 34, got my ATP at age 42, got a Lear type rating at age 49. Was flying Lears and Citations (right seat) shortly thereafter.

Bob Gardner
 
Answer these questions to yourself truthfully:

1. Can I live on $16-20k annual for 3-7 years?
2. Can I fly clapped out, clanky rundown planes for the same period?
3. Can I be ready to go with 2 hour notice, night or day, 7/24/365?
4. Can I sleep in seedy motels, and get stranded for days at a time in places like - Pasco WA?
5. Am I ok with loading, and unloading, and fixing, and patching, and cleaning, lubing, and general maint on 40 YO planes?

If you said yes, and you mean it, and you have a comm/inst ticket, then it's your call. You will NOT be starting left seat on a MD-11, flying between Hawaii and SFO a few days a week, with generous time off, and $120k salary.
 
If you spend 100k to get your CPL you failed, shouldn't cost more then 60k

If it takes you 7 years to clear 16-20k you failed, I made more then that right after I got my CPL as a CFI, year 2 I made 25ish but with housing, utilities, etc all paid for (nice condo too).

This industry required ALOT of tenacity and ambition, also being able to think outside the box will help
 
If you can locate Eamon (MouseMan), he made such a move a few years ago. Haven't seen him here in a while, but he's flying for Chautauqua these days.
 
It's your money and time,go for it ,find a charter company and hook up with them. You can fly right seat in a turbo prop with a commercial and class 2 medical.
 
bobmrg said:
I got my private at age 34, got my ATP at age 42, got a Lear type rating at age 49. Was flying Lears and Citations (right seat) shortly thereafter.

Bob Gardner
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Wow! Are you the real Bob Gardner? I just bought your book - "Say Again, Please: Guide to Radio Communications""

Hail to you Sir!
 
Yep, he's the one. I bought his book too, back in circa 2000. Very helpful book, easy read and a wealth of information. Still have it!
 
I started flight training at 34, and started as a flight instructor at 36. Went to Alaska at 38. At 53 I was in a partnership on a part 135 operation.

I would say that it all depends on your situtation. First all is debt. Flight training and living during that time is expensive. I was single and had almost no responsibilities. I sold a business to afford flight training and had no debt either before or after I received all my certificates. (I know I sound like I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth but I assure you I worked hard at my previous business and jobs) If you have a wife and young children it can still happen but there will be sacrifices to be made. One will be home life and another will be having less than welfare wages. I lived in a 5th wheel RV for several years.

It took me 2 years before I made over 50k after I received all my certificates, and that was because I chased the dollar and went to Alaska. Other people that I went to flight school with that wanted to fly part 121 planes took on the average 10 years to make over 50k.

Part 121 has an age limit, I think it is 65 now. Part 135 you can fly as long as you can keep a medical certificate.

Aviation is a step ladder career and there is almost no way to skip a few steps. It takes serious dedication to make it in aviation.

Or if you enjoy teaching you can keep your day job and be a flight instructor.
 
ted6357 said:
Wow! Are you the real Bob Gardner? I just bought your book - "Say Again, Please: Guide to Radio Communications""

Hail to you Sir!
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You can stop bowing and averting your eyes Ted.

Ol' Bob is just one of the gang here. ;)
 
RotorAndWing said:
I don't know if I would consider this being "broke". UPS Pilots :rolleyes:
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Depends on how many ex wives and bad investments he has. ;)

UPS was not a good example of poorly paid pilots, as they're amongst the highest paid in the industry.....
 
Slipkid65 said:
Depends on how many ex wives and bad investments he has. ;)

UPS was not a good example of poorly paid pilots, as they're amongst the highest paid in the industry.....
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IF you make it, and IF you survive company politics.
 
Zeldman said:
IF you survive company politics.
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Keep in mind there will be company politics and office drama everywhere, from the smallest mom and pop to the biggest airline. It's not just about flying the airplane. It will be a job which comes with the other baggage of being a job. Go for it if that's what you want to do. The advantage of being older is that you probably (hopefully) have more of a financial cushion. The disadvantage is that you may have more expectations since you have already spent quite a bit of time in the workforce.
 
James331 said:
If you spend 100k to get your CPL you failed, shouldn't cost more then 60k

If it takes you 7 years to clear 16-20k you failed, I made more then that right after I got my CPL as a CFI, year 2 I made 25ish but with housing, utilities, etc all paid for (nice condo too.
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:yeahthat: I'm about to break that in under a year at my 135, and we're dying for pilots... Might be missing the prime by a couple years, but if it's something you love, you can still make a very respectable career out of it. As Billy said, a 121 might be difficult, but focus on a nice 91 or 135 and you've got decades of fun ahead of you.
 
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Can you guys give some examples of 91 or 135 jobs? Just curious what pilots are doing besides the airline route. Off the top of my head, I'm know there's CFIs and cargo transport.

Also, what type of operations are going on in Alaska that is creating the high demand for non airline pilots?
 
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FlyingTiger said:
Can you guys give some examples of 91 or 135 jobs? Just curious what pilots are doing besides the airline route. Off the top of my head, I'm know there's CFIs and cargo transport.

Also, what type of operations are going on in Alaska that is creating the high demand for non airline pilots?
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There is bush pilot work, then there is pipeline and electric cable patrol, aerial photography of various forms (I did low level oblique), there is Ag work, there is mustering cattle (a lot more common as a job in Australia than here), fire suppression, small air taxi, corporate flight departments which can fly anything from a Bonanza to a 757, you have banner towing and other aerial advertising, and then there is dropping meat bombs. Oh yeah, there there is research and development test flying putting flights and hours on equipment for certification.
I'm sure I've left out more than a few. When you start hanging around and working at a busy airport, you see a lot of operations.
 
ted6357 said:
Wow! Are you the real Bob Gardner? I just bought your book - "Say Again, Please: Guide to Radio Communications""

Hail to you Sir!
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Thanks!

Bob
 
FlyingTiger said:
Can you guys give some examples of 91 or 135 jobs? Just curious what pilots are doing besides the airline route. Off the top of my head, I'm know there's CFIs and cargo transport.

Also, what type of operations are going on in Alaska that is creating the high demand for non airline pilots?
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In Alaska there are small commuter airlines that fly regular schedules in anything from C-207 to B-1900 and Saab 340. With that you will get jump seat privileges. There are even a few DC-3 and 6 jobs up there. I have known people to go to Alaska with a little over 500 hours and a fresh commercial ticket and find work flying.

I went to Alaska with the idea to build up to around 2000 hours than move on. At around 7000 hours I finally moved on. I enjoyed the flying up there too much.

Other 135 jobs are out here that pay pretty good, like air ambulance. You will start out in a King Air 90 or a PC-12 and then there are international air ambulance that fly business jets.

Next to me is the Navajo reservation. They fly King Air 200 and thanks to the tax payers they will be up grading to King Air 350 next year. They fly part 91.

But these are not beginner jobs. You may have to start out bumping around with students, banner towing, and so on.

These are just a very few examples, there are many more jobs in aviation.
 
Zeldman said:
IF you make it, and IF you survive company politics.
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Is that a problem?

I have about a dozen friends/acquaintances that have been flying for UPS, most for several decades now, and none have not "made it" or died yet.....

They are still amongst the highest paid 121 pilots in the industry.
 
Everskyward said:
Keep in mind there will be company politics and office drama everywhere, from the smallest mom and pop to the biggest airline.
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This is true, but as a line pilot, the larger the airline, the less of this nonsense you have to deal with, personally, on a daily basis. I used to refer to office drama as "As the prop turns" at the smaller companies.

As a major airline pilot, the vast majority of the time, I drive to work, fly my trip, and then drive home and don't think about work until the next time I go in. With the exception of the commute and some union stuff, there is very little drama!
 
Slipkid65 said:
I have about a dozen friends/acquaintances that have been flying for UPS, most for several decades now, and none have not "made it" or died yet.....
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I have a good buddy at UPS, and he says the key is to not get involved in the BS. He just shows up, flies his trip, then goes home and collects his paycheck. Beyond voting from time to time, we have no control over any of it anyway. He loves the job, but then again, he has the kind of personality where he can separate his love of flying from all the other crap.

My company's situation isn't nearly as contentious as UPS', but I always try to use him as an example of how to not let the flying become 'just another job'. I'm still just as excited to go fly today as I was back as a zit faced teenager in a 150. Compared to some of the miserable SOBs I see out on the line (most of whom seem to frequent pro pilot message boards!), I feel pretty blessed in that regard. :)
 
kayoh190 said:
I have a good buddy at UPS, and he says the key is to not get involved in the BS. He just shows up, flies his trip, then goes home and collects his paycheck. Beyond voting from time to time, we have no control over any of it anyway. He loves the job, but then again, he has the kind of personality where he can separate his love of flying from all the other crap.
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The beauty of that kind of job (which includes many 121 airlines) is that you can choose to not be involved.

My company's situation isn't nearly as contentious as UPS', but I always try to use him as an example of how to not let the flying become 'just another job'. I'm still just as excited to go fly today as I was back as a zit faced teenager in a 150. Compared to some of the miserable SOBs I see out on the line (most of whom seem to frequent pro pilot message boards!), I feel pretty blessed in that regard. :)
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Yup... Same here. In fact, our group still kowtows to management on just about every issue, so, other than the few vocal guys complaining on the forums, and some union related buffoonery, there's not much contention to be had. :eek: Not that it's necessarily a good thing, but it's easy to avoid the BS as a line pilot if you choose to do so.

After almost 30 years, I still enjoy most things about my job. The time off, paycheck and even the flying, (most of the time) is still great, but if I could afford to retire (without a downgrade in lifestyle) right now, I'd definitely give it some serious consideration! :yes:
 
Slipkid65 said:
This is true, but as a line pilot, the larger the airline, the less of this nonsense you have to deal with, personally, on a daily basis. I used to refer to office drama as "As the prop turns" at the smaller companies.

As a major airline pilot, the vast majority of the time, I drive to work, fly my trip, and then drive home and don't think about work until the next time I go in. With the exception of the commute and some union stuff, there is very little drama!
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There is plenty of union vs. management drama in the airlines.
 
Everskyward said:
There is plenty of union vs. management drama in the airlines.
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You think? :rofl:

In the post you quoted, I was referring to the "office" drama mentioned by someone else.... IE: who's banging who etc. While it certainly does happen, you're less likely to be (or even know the folks) involved personally, than you are in a smaller company.

As for the union stuff, I am over most of that BS anymore. Meet the new boss...... Same as the old boss..... rinse and repeat.......

I still wouldn't trade jobs with too many people.

I keep current on the union stuff, but I don't let it bug me like it did years ago.

I did the union rep thing as an angry young man, and you know what? Looking back, it was not even close to worth the agida.

Life's too short to be perpetually ticked off about stuff you have very little control over.
 
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Slipkid65 said:
Is that a problem?

I have about a dozen friends/acquaintances that have been flying for UPS, most for several decades now, and none have not "made it" or died yet.....

They are still amongst the highest paid 121 pilots in the industry.
Click to expand...


How long does it take the get there?

I am not sure what you mean by "none have not 'made it' "... does UPS have a 20 year probationary status for pilots?:) I was talking more in line of if you make it through the interview process and training.

I have been in the 135 world for 16 years. Albeit I am one of the partners in the investment group that owns this company and others. I would not change that to be just a line pilot for less than I am making now. Nothing wrong with being a line pilot, its just I have been there, done that, have the T-shirt, now it is time to move on. Right now I prefer the diversity of ownership. When I take a trip, I do it for fun, not because I have to. Hard to believe, I don't get paid to fly our airplanes.

Wait... does that mean I fly for fun now? :lol:

So back to the OPs question, yes there is more to aviation than flying for an airline.

Are you nuts..?? No more than the rest of us that fly...
 
Zeldman said:
How long does it take the get there?
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I guess it depends where you start, but not sure, exactly why you're asking me this.

I originally responded to a response to a guy saying that a UPS pilot on his field is always broke, and used that as proof that cargo carriers don't pay well. I found that ironic, since UPS pilots are amongst the highest paid pilots in the industry.

I am not sure what you mean by "none have not 'made it' "... does UPS have a 20 year probationary status for pilots?:)
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You tell me, since you made the statement......

I was talking more in line of if you make it through the interview process and training.
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Oh, well then all my friends that have been working there for the last few decades made it through both, since they've been working there for decades.

I have been in the 135 world for 16 years. Albeit I am one of the partners in the investment group that owns this company and others. I would not change that to be just a line pilot for less than I am making now. Nothing wrong with being a line pilot, its just I have been there, done that, have the T-shirt, now it is time to move on. Right now I prefer the diversity of ownership. When I take a trip, I do it for fun, not because I have to. Hard to believe, I don't get paid to fly our airplanes.
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That's awesome that you own a piece of the business!

There are lots of variables, on both sides, but, overall, comparing being a line pilot in the 135 world to the same in the 121 world is apples and oranges, in pretty much every way except that they both operate aircraft. ;) They both have their good and bad sides, but being a pilot for a major is a pretty good life. Not too much downside IME.


So back to the OPs question, yes there is more to aviation than flying for an airline.
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Certainly! It all depends on what you want to do and the job you're able to get doing it.

Are you nuts..?? No more than the rest of us that fly...
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100% agreed.......
 
Read the book called THE ALCHEMIST. That will inspire you to follow your dreams.
 
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