Am I allowed to do a touch n' go at an airport then depart?

Dmitri Scheidel said:
With all due respect, my CFI has nothing to do with this. I was the one who was confused about the requirements. My CFII is extremely knowledgeable and has been teaching for decades.
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Welcome to POA! Lol

I went through the same thing when I joined here and was very defensive of my CFI. That's good, it means you have one you like! Just remember they are human too and doesn't matter how long they've been teaching, they aren't always right.

Good luck on your xc!
 
My apology. Glad to hear that (no, not that you misunderstood). Unfortunately, I've come across a few that shouldn't been instructing at all.
 
Oh, I LOVE it here. Regardless if I got called out or not. XD The only other aviation community I am part of is AVSIM which is more for flight sim, and THEY will chew you out for anything.

And I'm not being defensive so much as making sure I'm the one being corrected for My mistakes.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
Welcome to POA! Lol

I went through the same thing when I joined here and was very defensive of my CFI. That's good, it means you have one you like! Just remember they are human too and doesn't matter how long they've been teaching, they aren't always right.

Good luck on your xc!
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Are you kidding? I hated my CFI. Still do. Enough to text him back and forth at least 4 times a week. Stupid Matt. 0/10. Would not recommend.
 
Dmitri Scheidel said:
Definitely. Expanding the block this time isn't possible because 3 people are behind me. But I have many other stops for the rest of the XC hours required at very interesting airports. (But I am stopping at Modesto this trip, there are apparently a TON of super nice aero clubs at the west part of the apron.)
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Hmm, I never knew that about MOD. I do enough practice approaches there (and at SCK) that one of these times, I'll have to stop and check it out. Too bad it's hotter than the 9th circle of Hell. But August will end eventually.
 
MAKG1 said:
Hmm, I never knew that about MOD. I do enough practice approaches there (and at SCK) that one of these times, I'll have to stop and check it out. Too bad it's hotter than the 9th circle of Hell. But August will end eventually.
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That's what the word is at least. Many of the guys from my flight school say the controllers are super cool and love it (probably because they're non contract).
 
Dmitri Scheidel said:
That's what the word is at least. Many of the guys from my flight school say the controllers are super cool and love it (probably because they're non contract).
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To be honest, I've only run into one unpleasant controller, and it was a NorCal controller in the Livermore sector. He got ticked at me for crossing the LVK extended centerline while VFR, apparently with inbound IFR traffic for the ILS I somehow should have guessed. Frankly, "Turn left heading 360 for traffic" is far better than "Do you know where you are?"
 
NorCal app have always been a bit more strict. Can't get too mad because they got SJC/OAK/SFO super close together. I head that OAK tower was the worst.
 
ircphoenix said:
Are you kidding? I hated my CFI. Still do. Enough to text him back and forth at least 4 times a week. Stupid Matt. 0/10. Would not recommend.
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I still remember the first time I went up with my CFI... it was a windy day and he thought I wouldnt be able to handle it... kept commenting on how we were going to make it a short flight, which I shot down every time. I think he then tried to haze me, as we went out to the practice area and he immediately threw me into stall training (already had a few hours on me from another school). At some point on the way back, and I don't recall what I said to incite this, he turned to me with this exasperated look on his face and said, " Oh my God... your poor husband." (...meaning he felt bad for my husband for having to put up with me! ;) ) That's when I knew this SOB and I were on the same page and he was going to be the one to get me licensed :)
 
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SkyDog58 said:
That seems to happen quite a bit on here. People taking more time to ask us on POA for an answer when it is quite often quicker to just look it up. Looking it up is also very educational and helps to develop one's research skill set.
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but looking it up doesn't generate as much comedy/drama/etc. :) discussion and perspectives are why people come here right?
 
Dmitri Scheidel said:
NorCal app have always been a bit more strict. Can't get too mad because they got SJC/OAK/SFO super close together. I head that OAK tower was the worst.
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Strict? There is no rule about having to stay out of the way of distant traffic you don't know about in Class E. And every other NorCal controller seems to have it together.

I've heard the rumors about the OAK tower controller, but my experiences with them have always been just fine.
 
I'm sending my first student off for solo cross-countries soon.

I feel like I'd rather he not get out and hang out at an airport, but rather, stay in go-mode. If he needs a breather, fine. But I feel like it helps to limit the other stuff going on. Any thoughts either way?

@Cajun_Flyer, your long XC was epic, maybe it should be the model instead?
 
whereisrandall said:
I'm sending my first student off for solo cross-countries soon.

I feel like I'd rather he not get out and hang out at an airport, but rather, stay in go-mode. If he needs a breather, fine. But I feel like it helps to limit the other stuff going on. Any thoughts either way?

@Cajun_Flyer, your long XC was epic, maybe it should be the model instead?
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I give my students the option. The long one is pretty exhausting so it wouldn't hurt for them to get out, stretch their legs, and regroup.
 
Dmitri Scheidel said:
I have the plane for a small block and need to get it home for the next person who booked it. I will definitely do full stop taxi backs during the other solo XC trips.

.
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Do NOT let yourself get pressured to hurry because of this. A whole bunch of things can happen to slow you down, including wind or weather, mechanical issues, burning more fuel than planned, etc. The people waiting for you to return the plane would much rather have you be a little late than break the airplane and hurt yourself.
 
whereisrandall said:
I'm sending my first student off for solo cross-countries soon.

I feel like I'd rather he not get out and hang out at an airport, but rather, stay in go-mode. If he needs a breather, fine. But I feel like it helps to limit the other stuff going on. Any thoughts either way?

@Cajun_Flyer, your long XC was epic, maybe it should be the model instead?
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I'd suggest leaving it up to him. Maybe a reminder that weather tends to worsen in the afternoon might push the decision in the direction you want...
 
Dmitri Scheidel said:
NorCal app have always been a bit more strict. Can't get too mad because they got SJC/OAK/SFO super close together. I head that OAK tower was the worst.
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I've never had a problem with OAK Tower, but I haven't been in their airspace much lately, so maybe things have changed there. :dunno:
 
Dmitri Scheidel said:
With all due respect, my CFI has nothing to do with this. I was the one who was confused about the requirements. My CFII is extremely knowledgeable and has been teaching for decades.
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With all respect to your instructor, it is not unusual for an old hand to pass on Old Wive's Tales as gospel for decades. There are times when i wish I had a time machine and could go back to my students from the 1960s and 1970s and say "I sure hope you have learned differently by now, but what I told you about (mixture control, power settings, pattern entries, etc etc) was wrong." The longer i teach the more I learn.

Bob Gardner
 
Palmpilot said:
I've never had a problem with OAK Tower, but I haven't been in their airspace much lately, so maybe things have changed there. :dunno:
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My ground school instructor told me a story about when he was doing a bay tour and OAK tower told him "turn to the 30's"... he didnt know what that meant and asked, but was promptly told to change freqs. On the other freq. he asked again and the controller apparently sighed and gave him a heading reluctantly then explained "turn to the 30's" meant turn towards the 30 end of the runway.
 
Dmitri Scheidel said:
My ground school instructor told me a story about when he was doing a bay tour and OAK tower told him "turn to the 30's"... he didnt know what that meant and asked, but was promptly told to change freqs. On the other freq. he asked again and the controller apparently sighed and gave him a heading reluctantly then explained "turn to the 30's" meant turn towards the 30 end of the runway.
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I've heard "30 numbers" many times when transiting the South Field (including cross-bay departures or arrivals on 28R), but never "30's." The worst I've heard from OAK controllers is a weird taxi clearance from the CAP hangar to the "old T's." No big deal; something must have been afoot near the 15 threshold.

Frequency changes are de reguir at OAK. I suspect coincidence. Until recently, they had two towers and a transition usually meant talking to both. It's still two frequencies, though both positions are in the new tower. That means four frequencies to get across the Class C.
 
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MAKG1 said:
I've heard "30 numbers" many times when transiting the South Field (including cross-bay departures or arrivals on 28R), but never "30's." The worst I've heard from OAK controllers is a weird taxi clearance from the CAP hangar to the "old T's." No big deal; something must have been afoot near the 15 threshold.

Frequency changes are de reguir at OAK. I suspect coincidence. Until recently, they had two towers and a transition usually meant talking to both. It's still two frequencies, though both positions are in the new tower. That means four frequencies to get across the Class C.
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This has been my experience as well. Always friendly, but they demand precision during transitions due to the tight confines of the airspace. And, yeah, you'll be making some frequency changes.

Things that will make flying around OAK better (I almost never land there, so I can't help with that):
  • Know where the Oakland Colosseum is and be able to identify it from the air.
  • Know which freeway is 880/Nimitz Freeway.
  • Know where the 30 numbers of the big runway are.
  • Know where the midspan of the San Mateo bridge really is (you're probably flying too far east).
  • Be able to fly an altitude with a +0' tolerance since the altitude restrictions are quite low.
  • Know where the edge of Hayward's airspace is.
 
Dmitri Scheidel said:
With all due respect, my CFI has nothing to do with this. I was the one who was confused about the requirements. My CFII is extremely knowledgeable and has been teaching for decades.
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Does not compute...

"Tomorrow is my long XC, my instructor said I can do a touch and go at one airport..."
 
Mason said:
Do NOT let yourself get pressured to hurry because of this. A whole bunch of things can happen to slow you down, including wind or weather, mechanical issues, burning more fuel than planned, etc. The people waiting for you to return the plane would much rather have you be a little late than break the airplane and hurt yourself.
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My thoughts exactly.

I'd shoot for a day when you can have the plane the entire day.
 
FastEddieB said:
My thoughts exactly.

I'd shoot for a day when you can have the plane the entire day.
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I blocked my rental slot out for two hours longer than what I thought I'd need. Took a lot of pressure off. Good thing I did that, as I had some unpredictable things happen and actually ended up using most of the extended time slot.
 
arnoha said:
  • Know where the Oakland Colosseum is and be able to identify it from the air.
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That's one where it helps to have the terminal area chart (TAC), since it depicts the location and the sectional doesn't.

  • Know where the midspan of the San Mateo bridge really is (you're probably flying too far east).
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Another one where the TAC is helpful, since it shows the GPS waypoint VPMID.
 
If you drink coffee before the cross-country flight, chances are a stop and "go" will be required regardless of the regulations. Just sayin'.


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If you are not training out of a towered airport, then remember the three full stop landings at a towered airport requirement. Might as well get these in as well.
 
Dmitri Scheidel said:
(removed this part to keep it calm in here) I have the plane for a small block and need to get it home for the next person who booked it. I will definitely do full stop taxi backs during the other solo XC trips.

Edit: THe second stop during this flight is KMOD, a proclaimed super nice airport for new people so my CFI recommended I stop and say hi to all the clubs.
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If you are on any sort of schedule, DO NOT start a conversation with any other pilots.

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When I did mine, about 40 years ago I was required to have my logbook signed at each stop...
 
not sure if it's been suggested, but a full stop taxi back would also meet the requirements if you're not looking to stop at transient parking or an FBO.

I'd encourage you to stop, shut down and start the next flight anew. It's great practice and working with an FBO is also a good thing as that's what you'll be doing once you have your PPL.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
I blocked my rental slot out for two hours longer than what I thought I'd need. Took a lot of pressure off. Good thing I did that, as I had some unpredictable things happen and actually ended up using most of the extended time slot.
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Also gives you time to change hats for the next photo.

@Dmitri Scheidel you are aware about the hats and selfies? I forget where it is listed in the FAR/AIM.
At each stop, you are required (ok, encouraged) to take selfie and post them here when you are done so we can enjoy your adventure ;)
 
One thing that I did for the purpose of just getting more practice was I had an additional landing planned for my long x/c. It really paid off because the weather was great and forecasted to be great when I departed my home field. You know where this is going. Well, one of the airports I intended to visit had 20 knot almost direct crosswinds when I got to it. As a student, no thanks (actually, no thanks with me PPL). So, no harm as I still got my required landings and counted as long X/C. Also, don't forget the hours requirement for solo x/c's in your planning, there is still an hour requirement?
 
NoBShere said:
One thing that I did for the purpose of just getting more practice was I had an additional landing planned for my long x/c. It really paid off because the weather was great and forecasted to be great when I departed my home field. You know where this is going. Well, one of the airports I intended to visit had 20 knot almost direct crosswinds when I got to it. As a student, no thanks (actually, no thanks with me PPL). So, no harm as I still got my required landings and counted as long X/C. Also, don't forget the hours requirement for solo x/c's in your planning, there is still an hour requirement?
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Yep, total of 5 hours flight time between the two required XCs.
 
DFH65 said:
Not sure how they do it now but back when I did my cross countries I stopped and had someone sign my log book. Arrived so and so airport, Billjoe JimBob.

ETA: Maybe my instructor didn't trust me. :p
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I earned some street cred and a stronger bond w/ my CFI on my long XC by getting my logbook not only signed at each [full]stop, but signed by a cute line / counter girl, and one obliged by planting a little lipstick kiss on it as well.

George L. was impressed.

Oh, I brought the plane back in OK shape too. (crushed the landing at HYA - expected to see collapsed gear upon getting out - nope! Thems strong PA-28's!
 
Palmpilot said:
That's one where it helps to have the terminal area chart (TAC), since it depicts the location and the sectional doesn't.


Another one where the TAC is helpful, since it shows the GPS waypoint VPMID.
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Yep, but he should do it well ahead of the flight. For a student pilot, three frequency changes, three altitude changes, and three waypoints inside of 10 minutes is a damn lot to process.
 
To close all of this, I went up today. KCCR-KMOD. Shut down, walked around, said hi to the construction workers, headed out. KMOD-KMCC. Did a full stop taxi back to fix an off-plotted line on my sectional. KMCC-KCCR, did a touch and go before taxing back to the ramp. All went well, followed the rules.
 
Congrats. Was it an enjoyable flight? I loved my ppl long cross country flight.

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JoeFromKS said:
If you are on any sort of schedule, DO NOT start a conversation with any other pilots.
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QFT. Especially in Indiana in my experience. F-ing people in that state are too darn friendly - made me so late one time getting to KC Kansas I lined up on a highway and had to side-step to OJC after 1am....
 
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