Always on ADS-B and Skybeacon/Tailbeacon

MarkH

MarkH

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MarkH
Reading about ADS-B options leads to a question about the nav light ADSB solutions.

As I understand, if ADSB is installed it must be on, but nav lights are on a switch. How is this being handled in installations?

Is it just placarded, is the switch being bypassed, or is there some other solution?
 
Install a couple Whelen Chroma lights and never mess with the switch again.
 
MarkH said:
Reading about ADS-B options leads to a question about the nav light ADSB solutions.

As I understand, if ADSB is installed it must be on, but nav lights are on a switch. How is this being handled in installations?

Is it just placarded, is the switch being bypassed, or is there some other solution?
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Just got my skybeacon install done last night. It’s just placarded. I could still shut it off with the nav switch.

I’d like to fly with it today and test it, but there are thunderstorms around.
 
MBDiagMan said:
What good does it do if turned off?
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It doesn’t transmit your personal data to anyone with a internet connection and smartphone.

So I’d say safety/security.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
no. Their EchoUAT does, but that's not for type certificated aircraft.
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Yup. EAB FTW, as always....

That said, I'll be ordering my skybeacon here in the next couple weeks, since it looks like I'll be holding on to this certified can for a little while longer. It does have anonymous mode, which is a twofer. :D
 
James331 said:
It doesn’t transmit your personal data to anyone with a internet connection and smartphone.

So I’d say safety/security.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... so not transmitting ADS-B is safer than having it on. Interesting. Lots of money being wasted. Maybe it’s safer because that black helicopter won’t get you.
 
Stewartb said:
There is no certification requirement for ABS-B "In".
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If it is permanently installed then it is treated like any other installed avionics, if it is portable like a Stratus/Sentry/Scout then certification is not required
 
A manufacturer can’t sell any product as an “airplane part” for installation in a certificated airplane without a PMA or TSO. To get around that they label them for experimental use only. Since ADS-B is not required for anyone a spcerificated guy can put an In device in a certificated airplane even though the manufacturer can’t sell it for a certificated airplane. Another example of government intelligence.
 
The S stands for surveillance. Your position being known by others leads to safety. Not a difficult concept to grasp. If you are going to put it on and not power it up, why bother putting it on? The law will require you to turn it on.

Sounds like a little paranoia here and there in this group. Either that or something to hide.
 
MBDiagMan said:
The S stands for surveillance. Your position being known by others leads to safety. Not a difficult concept to grasp. If you are going to put it on and not power it up, why bother putting it on? The law will require you to turn it on.

Sounds like a little paranoia here and there in this group. Either that or something to hide.
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What’s hard to grasp is why I need to broadcast my N number hex, position and altitude for planes and XM radar, that’s cool, but sending my personal info is not needed for anything safety related. You should read up on history, it’s all mostly a rerun and I think you might have missed a few seasons lol

But hey, please post your full name, DOB, SS, and bank account numbers, unless you have some “paranoia”
 
I am thinking of going with the Tail Beacon, but wiring it to the rotating beacon power...dont want to run with nav lights on all the time.
 
James331 said:
What’s hard to grasp is why I need to broadcast my N number hex, position and altitude for planes and XM radar, that’s cool, but sending my personal info is not needed for anything safety related. You should read up on history, it’s all mostly a rerun and I think you might have missed a few seasons lol

But hey, please post your full name, DOB, SS, and bank account numbers, unless you have some “paranoia”
Click to expand...

I have found tail number being displayed to be handy a few times. When they are operating of the same airport, they are usually on the same frequency. You can call them by tail number and coordinate. If you’re not broadcasting you position and altitude, what good could it possibly do? I’m not sure that you have a good grasp on what ADS-B does and how it works.

My tail number being broadcast for the purpose of traffic control is no problem for me. Of course I am not paranoid or have anything to hide.

When you find and show me that from my tail number someone can determine the information you indicate, then I will consider it a problem. Until then I will continue being happy with information that helps me stay clear of other planes.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I’m not sure that you have a good grasp on what ADS-B does and how it works....
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Do you understand what anonymous mode does (and doesn't) do?

Do you understand the limitations of the ADS-B system?
 
MBDiagMan said:
I have found tail number being displayed to be handy a few times. When they are operating of the same airport, they are usually on the same frequency. You can call them by tail number and coordinate. If you’re not broadcasting you position and altitude, what good could it possibly do? I’m not sure that you have a good grasp on what ADS-B does and how it works.

My tail number being broadcast for the purpose of traffic control is no problem for me. Of course I am not paranoid or have anything to hide.

When you find and show me that from my tail number someone can determine the information you indicate, then I will consider it a problem. Until then I will continue being happy with information that helps me stay clear of other planes.
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Seeing I work in the industry I’d wager I get it better than you probably do, again position is fine but zero reason to send my tailnumber.

If I just want to VFR it, I should be able to fly around without asking for permission or letting any jackass two states away with a internet connection or ADSB to creepily watch my flight and where I go, it’s none of their damn business


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_security
 
Man! What are you so afraid of?

Oh look! I see that N1234X belongs to Joe Schmo, of Kansas City is over Oklahoma headed for Texas! Security Alert!!
 
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MBDiagMan said:
Man! What are you so afraid of?

Oh look! I see that N1234X belongs to Joe Schmo, of Kansas City is over Oklahoma headed for Texas! Security Alert!!
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Afraid of, lolz
Not really, just a student of history.

By the way I don’t see where you posted the info I (a random dude who’s just curious) asked for? Afraid?


It comes down to what my life and way of life is worth, and a cost to benefit.

My life and way of life is worth TONS to me

There are some risks broadcasting where my plane and likely self/loved ones are for any private or public crook who might want to know, not a huge risk but a risk, now there is ZERO benefit for me to transmit my N number. Z E R O

You have zero valid reasons to need the personal info for a traffic target.

I mean how many people on here post about getting some random person in some podunk airport trying to scam them out of money for “registration” or some such?

If you read a little history, just say 20th century, big government has been the biggest risk and expense most citizens have in their lives, more so than “mass shooters” or “terrorists” and yet folks get all confused when someone says something is non of anyones damn business, all while turning a blind eye to...say....the TSA feeling your grand kids balls. Priorities lol



Yeah, trust these people, what’s the worse that could happen
http://johnandmartha.kingschools.com/2010/08/31/our-gunpoint-at-the-airport-ordeal-2/

Or this one

Or how about this that keeps happening

6-AEFDE75-9-B33-4368-86-D1-02487-C7-C6277.png



So no, I don’t want to send more data to be misused in databases that never go away, or really have anyone who I don’t think needs to know, knowing where I am or where I am going.
Sure I can’t shield myself and my loved ones from all of it, but I can do the best I can to minimize how much of a target I make myself, I can also remind folks who take the gov as their lord and savor of these things they seem to often forget.
 
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I explained before, but I will reiterate in more simple terms in hopes that you will understand.

When ADS-B transmits my SS number, DOB, etc., then I will post that information here.

Do you now understand what I said?

Your paranoia is quite remarkable, or is it that you engage in activity you want to hide?
 
MBDiagMan said:
I explained before, but I will reiterate in more simple terms in hopes that you will understand.

When ADS-B transmits my SS number, DOB, etc., then I will post that information here.

Do you now understand what I said?

Your paranoia is quite remarkable, or is it that you engage in activity you want to hide?
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How is it paranoid when I can post how time after time after time data was wrongly used against good people?

And yes I have LOTS to hide, its called EVERYTHING thats none of anyone's damn business, my location and comings and goings fall under that
 
The concept of ADS-B is good. The execution is crap. When every plane in the air is broadcasting it'll serve a purpose I can get behind. With half the planes in the sky exempt? It provides a dangerous false security. That's not good for anyone.
 
When ADS-B transmits my SS number, DOB, etc., then I will post that information here.

Do you now understand what I said?

Your paranoia is quite remarkable, or is it that you engage in activity you want to hide?

Your tail # gives your name and address, from which can be found your pilot cert #. That shows your pilot ratings and medical status. With your name and address your phone #, a google earth picture of your property, next of kin, estimated net worth, any business owned, arrest record or any other information.

I just looked up a Mooney tail # for a guy who lives near Tyler TX, saw a pic of the property, phone # and know he is a PP, ASEL with rotor/helo.

Seems like a lot of info can be found quickly and for free.
 
Stewartb said:
The concept of ADS-B is good. The execution is crap. When every plane in the air is broadcasting it'll serve a purpose I can get behind. With half the planes in the sky exempt? It provides a dangerous false security. That's not good for anyone.
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It’s a solution in search of a problem, it wasn’t exactly raining aircraft before ADSB, mid airs were quite rare and I highly doubt the stats will show much of a reduction, I also haven’t seen a huge jump in what ATC can do for me as a IFR airplane. Frankly it’s a kinda sorta cool on screen tech, mostly nice for some “free” stale weather broadcast, but the real use is it just makes private air travel easily trackable and less private, same road your metadata, bank data, health data, etc is all going.


And yeah lots or your data is already out there, guess what even with a locked door people can break in, and yet folks still lock their doors for whatever extra safety it may provide.
 
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MBDiagMan said:
Google a tail number and you can learn name and address of owner.
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Exactly.
And, ADS-B provides that tail number for any nutcase out there who wants it for whatever reason while, at the same time, providing not a single benefit in terms of traffic separation or safety from that tail number broadcast.
 
ADS-B traffic is a wonderful thing. If it represented all airplanes it would be really useful. Somewhere there’s a good FAA video about ADS-B and controlling the helicopters servicing oil platforms in the Gulf of Mexico. The ATC advantage is pretty interesting.
 
FWIW: During the GOM testing the gist of the whole program was to reduce aircraft separation distances and increase flight volume within the same airspace. Within 3 months it was proven to have paid off as aircraft at any altitude went from 80-100 mile separation to 5 miles. And since only one helicopter operator volunteered for the program that meant on IFR days they had their entire deep water fleet outbound hours before any of the competition had launched using the old clearance method. Projected savings to the oil companies/operators once applicable GOM fleet was ADSB compliant were at the $50M+ level in 20 years. That's since changed due to the industry slow down. But in watching the GOM program play out I never got the feeling it was designed to encompass all aircraft ops, only those within certain airspaces as the current rules are written. Maybe in 30 years we'll see requirements for everything flying, to include drones, to be ADSB in/out compliant but it will take another regulation APA process or congressional action to force everyone to that level.
 
I remember the original ADS-B being tested as the Capstone Project in western Alaska. Air taxi guys flying in fuzzy air the ground fog and blowing snow against an endless featureless white landscape could keep track of each other and had access to weather info. I knew a few of those guys and they loved it.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Exactly.
And, ADS-B provides that tail number for any nutcase out there who wants it for whatever reason while, at the same time, providing not a single benefit in terms of traffic separation or safety from that tail number broadcast.
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I'm as strong a critic of ADS-B as you are, but: My Skybeacon lets me turn off the N-number broadcast using anonymous mode.

Mind you, I suspect it's still sending the hex equivalent.....

Ron Wanttaja
 
MBDiagMan said:
That has nothing to do with ADS-B. Google a tail number and you can learn name and address of owner.
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So why not also let the same whack jobs know where the plane is all the time and where it’s going?


image.jpg
 
wanttaja said:
I'm as strong a critic of ADS-B as you are, but: My Skybeacon lets me turn off the N-number broadcast using anonymous mode.

Mind you, I suspect it's still sending the hex equivalent.....

Ron Wanttaja
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That would rather defeat the whole point. Anonymous mode sends a random 24 bit hex code as well(one for the flight).

Now, as to why the FAA didn't allow it for 1090, who knows.
 
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