Allentown FSDO CFI Initial - anyone with experience?

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josephades

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I am taking my CFI initial (airplane) in Allentown in two weeks. Wanted to know if anyone out there has some experience with them. I am based out of KFRG, and I had the option to either wait until September for the assigned DPE to perform the check ride vs go to Allentown and get something much sooner.

I've heard that Allentown is much easier but I just wanted to be sure of that. You are dealing with the FAA directly and based on my conversation with the examiner, they are "by the book" with minimal leeway.

On the other hand, the local DPE also has a reputation of being very tough. Tough enough that a lot of students go to Allentown for the check ride, but my conversation with him seemed that he is more on the fair side.

Not sure on the pass rate though

Thanks!
 
Normally FSDO rides are a little tuffer, some folks think that since DPEs are paid they have more of a vested interest in a good outcome.

I did my ride with a west coast FSDO, long oral, like start at breakfast, take a lunch between and back to oral. Hardest ride of my career (ATP).
 
Ted Dupuis took his out of the Allentown FSDO. Hopefully he will chime in.
 
In May, saw a guy return from Allentown with a failure in the oral part of his CFI check ride. Instructor talked to the guy on the phone to find out what happened and was not happy with what he heard. Felt the FAA examiner was being unreasonable. Supposedly he is pretty new.

Oh, and he hates pilots from KFRG

:D
 
The examiner I am doing the test with is the "new guy". Better for me to just wait until September for the local DPE to be available?
 
I'll ask around, we have a pretty active flight school where I fly (KWBW) and I think they are sending everyone to Allentown now for the CFI check ride. Thought I heard that the rules changed recently and they can't use the local DPE for CFI anymore. Since you still seem to have that option, maybe I heard wrong.
 
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Thanks I appreciate it. My check ride is scheduled for Tuesday so if you can get the info by then, I will be very thankful.

The CFI who failed from this examiner told me that this was the examiner's first check ride that he had given, also in May.

I understand if he wants to be unreasonable and tough in his very early stages but now after going through tons of pilots I'd expect him to be more reasonable and fair. If not then I'm just wasting my time and money and might as well consider it worth it to wait. He sounded nice over the phone and told me "not to be too nervous" but now I'm freaking out from all these reviews.
 
It may not be a bad thing going with the "tougher" examiner. After all, it is your initial CFI and you're going to help produce future pilots so the test should be tough. I flight instructed out of FRG as well and took my initial CFI with the DPE you're probably thinking of. PM for any questions.
 
josephades said:
I understand if he wants to be unreasonable and tough in his very early stages but now after going through tons of pilots I'd expect him to be more reasonable and fair. If not then I'm just wasting my time and money and might as well consider it worth it to wait. He sounded nice over the phone and told me "not to be too nervous" but now I'm freaking out from all these reviews.
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He may not have done "tons" of checkrides by now. In my local FSDO most of the initial CFIs get farmed out to the qualified DPEs simply because the ASIs don't have the time to do them. Each FSDO is different however, so your local one might do all the initial CFI rides and this inspector may have done some of them.

Either way, I'd just go and take it regardless of what the first time pass/fail rate is. You're going to have to go and do it somewhere eventually anyway. If you know your stuff, the outcome will be favorable. If not, study the areas you're weak in and take it again.
 
Don't bother trying to cherry pick who you're going to for your ride.

It's the initial CFI, it's a big deal, you should be VERY prepared, if you know your stuff you'll be fine, if you suck the big one you're going to fail.
 
James331 said:
Don't bother trying to cherry pick who you're going to for your ride.

It's the initial CFI, it's a big deal, you should be VERY prepared, if you know your stuff you'll be fine, if you suck the big one you're going to fail.
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This. Examiner is trusting us to make new pilots. We should have a tough ride.
 
Some of these FAA examiners have a grudge against someone (ex Bob Hoover case). When I went to KJAN to take my ME CFI w/ a fed everything went well on the oral, and then he had a question while I was doing my prefight of the C 310. There's an escape window on the pilots side for emergency egress. We were outside the plane and he asked why the window was "puttied" over. I answered I wasn't sure but probably so they could paint it. He then says, well if you can demonstrate opening it we'll fly. I said I can open it but won't be able to get it back on. Ride over, gives me a Ferry Permit to fly home. Cost me 2 hours of rental and an incomplete ride. When I got back I told the owner what happened and he got incensed, pulls out the huge C310 maintenance manual, calls the fed up, and chews him a new one, quoting the procedure for that window right out of the manual. Turns out this fed had a hard on for the owner from past disagreements. Few weeks later another fed from KJAN paid a visit and I was able to go up with him and passed.
 
I've heard the examiner at KFRG is actually very fair and the check ride is uneventful, might be better off to wait the month and a half.
 
Maciej said:
I've heard the examiner at KFRG is actually very fair and the check ride is uneventful, might be better off to wait the month and a half.
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He's very fair. Just like any other ride, if you know your stuff, you'll pass.
 
If you know how to teach, and understand the material, you'll do fine. If you think the initial CFI hard, wait until you have a real student.
They deserve you're preparedness.
That said, the DPE out of FRG (you'll get the snoopy stamp) is absolutely fair and a very decent chap.
 
Just to update you, and hopefully someone makes use of this as well, I ended up taking the check ride in Allentown with the new examiner (don't want to publicly post any names.

Overall he was a very fair examiner. Whatever rumors I heard about what to expect were all nonsense. I was worried and nervous for no reason.

The one thing I do want to point out is that the FSDO has someone who will check the logbooks of the plane and then go to the plane itself and have a look at it to confirm it is airworthy. Keep in mind that they literally pick at every little tiny thing. So make sure that you are taking a plane that does not have any shady maintenances or missing information in the logbooks. I would be more nervous about the plane inspection than the check ride itself, because for someone like me who had to fly an hour to get there, it would have been a shame to have turned around and not been able to complete the check ride over a simple maintenance issue.

The oral was under an hour and a half. No joke. I thought it was going to be at least 4 hours, but I did answer each question "rapidly" and "immediately" (FOI definition of 'normal reaction to stress')

Topics we covered:
- FOI- laws of learning, principles of learning, other basic stuff that I can't remember. Had to reference my notes on a few points but overall as long as you are english proficient you can literally just BS your way through the FOIs
- Airspace - basic PPL material
- Communication requirements to enter airspaces
- Weather requirements for different airspaces, VFR vs MVFR, rotating beacon during the day, etc.
- Endorsements & Instructor responsibilities
- What fields are you required to test the student on with pre solo knowledge
- Regulations, such as: can a non-CFII log the 10 hour simulated instrument time for a student commercial pilot that is not instrument rated; student is on his first solo and the airport suddenly closes due to an emergency - what would I do?; If someone with a non-US pilot license wants to rent an American plane, what is required?; If you catch a student pilot with a passenger, what needs to be done?
- How a constant speed prop works - VERY basic definition
- Basic weather - METAR, TAF, FA, etc. I didn't have to read anything, just explain what they were and when to use each one.
- Lesson plans - chandelles and spins

Flying portion:
- Preflight
- Taxiing & run up - inspector taxi'd while I explained all
- Emergency briefing
- Regular crosswind takeoff
- Hood time - inspector put me under the hood and had me fly certain headings, climb and descnend, and then performed 2 unusual attitudes and asked me to explain how I am recovering
- Power off stall
- Elevated trim stall
- Slow flight
- Steep turns - the inspector performed this maneuver while I guided him on what to do
- Turns around a point
- Simulated engine failure
- Chandelle
- 8s on pylons
- Soft field landing
- Short field landing
- Short field takeoff
- Power off 180
- Regular landing - inspector performed the last landing while I guided him on what to do

Logged 2.0 on the flight portion

I am DONE with the FSDO! I hope to never have to deal with them again! HUGE weight lifted from my shoulders! Now for my CFII....and I will GLADLY pay a DPE to avoid the FSDO! lol
 
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I was told years ago that an initial CFI check ride with an inspector is generally easier than one with a DPE, because the DPE has "something to prove" to the FAA.

But I knew saying that before the check ride wouldn't help. ;)

Congrats!
 
Back in the day when ALL variations of CFI rides (CFI<CFII< CFIME etc) required Feds I had the examiner flying the plane while I 'instructed' for my CFII ride. I kept thinking to myself while instructing that this guy just wants some stick time. Nice guy. Now the ass I had for my ME CFI is another story, which I wrote about on here somewhere. Feds and DPEs, you just don't know how the ride will go, and rumors about a particular examiner, often untrue, don't help mattes do they?

Anywho, congrats! Now get out there and teach!
 
MauleSkinner said:
I was told years ago that an initial CFI check ride with an inspector is generally easier than one with a DPE, because the DPE has "something to prove" to the FAA.

But I knew saying that before the check ride wouldn't help. ;)

Congrats!
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My thinking has always been the inverse, the DPE makes money off every ride, the inspector doesn't make a dime more or less from the ride, his reputation will not change his pay, and you don't have a choice which inspector you use, where as a DPE who is known as an azz will get less people who choose to use him and less $$.

A inspector also tends to have much more experience to draw from, works with more professional pilots, more rookies, they see everyday the results of people who don't follow the rules and make dumb choices, so their BS detector is going to be a little more tuned.
 
James331 said:
My thinking has always been the inverse, the DPE makes money off every ride, the inspector doesn't make a dime more or less from the ride, his reputation will not change his pay, and you don't have a choice which inspector you use, where as a DPE who is known as an azz will get less people who choose to use him and less $$.

A inspector also tends to have much more experience to draw from, works with more professional pilots, more rookies, they see everyday the results of people who don't follow the rules and make dumb choices, so their BS detector is going to be a little more tuned.
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Exactly my thoughts as well
 
James331 said:
A inspector also tends to have much more experience to draw from, works with more professional pilots, more rookies, they see everyday the results of people who don't follow the rules and make dumb choices, so their BS detector is going to be a little more tuned.
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While I've worked with some fairly experienced inspectors, on average the DPEs I've worked with have been far more experienced than the inspectors.
 
Not the average I've seen, but everywhere is a little different.
 
DPEs are also more forgiving if you mess up on a maneuver. They understand you are nervous and that perfection is not a standard.
 
josephades said:
DPEs are also more forgiving if you mess up on a maneuver. They understand you are nervous and that perfection is not a standard.
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Not an area where I've seen a consistent difference, either.
 
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On my commercial pilot check ride I was allowed to go around on the power off 180 because I wasn't going to make my point. With the FSDO I asked in advance if I was allowed to go around and he said "no you only have one shot at each maneuver"

On my private pilot I messed up my entry on turns around a point and was allowed to start over. FSDO would have never allowed that
 
josephades said:
On my commercial pilot check ride I was allowed to go around on the power off 180 because I wasn't going to make my point. With the FSDO I asked in advance if I was allowed to go around and he said "no you only have one shot at each maneuver"

On my private pilot I messed up my entry on turns around a point and was allowed to start over. FSDO would have never allowed that
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Is that "the FSDO" or "the inspector"? Big difference.
 
The inspector himself

I also called the Albany FSDO to try to get an earlier date and I asked the same question. He also gave me the same response.
 
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