Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio (minor thinking)

Can we see the panel? This is still an aviation forum even if you're "retired." ;)
 
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asicer said:
Gotta love how they put "V6 90deg" on a Ferrari-red label right below that 4-leaf clover. :)
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It is supposedly a Ferrari V8-derived engine, so it's an appropriate color combination.

And while we didn't get it on St. Patrick's Day, it is March! :)

Bill said:
Interesting intake plumbing route
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I spent some time looking at it. The engine bay is very attractively laid out, and it actually doesn't look like it would be too awful to work on. Hopefully it'll be a while before that happens (especially with the warranty). Basically it's set up as two 3-cylinders sharing a crank - one turbo per bank, one water-to-air intercooler per bank (that's located vertical in front of and down from the throttle bodies) and one throttle body per bank.

The engine does have cylinder deactivation (which I will not use) so I'd imagine that's part of the reason for that setup - the deactivation will be most efficient when the one bank isn't pulling a vacuum.
 
Oh, I was reading through the POH. The most humorous part is it has the Ford Explorer-derived rollover warning that, as an SUV, it's more likely to roll over and you should drive with care.

Nobody told this guy that, apparently:

 

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What’s the over under line for number of issues after three months?
 
So far, the Alfa really has been a good car. By the time my wife gets home from her errands today, it will have right about at 3k miles on it. So far, knock on wood, we've had zero dealer visits. The only issue is that occasionally it will give us a "service parking brake" message (it has an electric parking brake like many modern cars), but it always seems to work just fine.

The UI of the infotainment system is very good and intuitive to me. It's simple and ergonomic to use. One of the things I really like is that it has Apple CarPlay AND built-in navigation. Going on a long trip and you don't want to be reliant on your phone (especially through areas of no signal)? No problem. Going local and just want directions for how to get from A to B that's easiest pulled on your phone? No problem.

Every time I drive it I say "This is just such a nice car to drive." Out of our fleet, it's the one I'd most want to take on a long trip if we were just looking for a car to drive somewhere. It's extremely comfortable, the steering and handling is fantastic, and of course it's fast and sounds good.

Sometimes the transmission doesn't do what I want it to, but that mostly comes down to the fact that it's an automatic and it can't predict everything you want 100% of the time. The different driving modes change the transmission and engine response as well as the suspension. Driving in "Dynamic" mode (basically sport mode) is generally what I do and it makes the exhaust louder/more aggressive. However when you do that, it won't shift into top gear unless you manually tell it to. Makes sense in some ways.

Fuel economy? Yeah, it's not very good. We get something around 18-18.5 on premium in our normal driving cycle. By today's standards that's really bad, and the 4-cylinder does way, way better. But keep in mind you don't buy a 505 HP SUV because you want to get good fuel economy. It still does better than the GL550 we had before, which got something in the 15-17 range, also on premium. We also specifically do not use the "Advanced Efficiency" mode with cylinder deactivation or auto start-stop in traffic (not a fan of either of those) and that probably does impact things some.

I do wish that it had cooled/vented seats like my Ram does, and on a luxury car with a sticker price of nearly $90k that seems a silly omission in today's market. However I haven't found myself missing it overall, even in our hot Kansas summer temps.

So in summary, I can't give anyone a reason not to buy one of these so far. It really is a fun car that we enjoy. How will it be 5-10 years down the road? Who knows, but there's nothing so far that's been an issue. If you're thinking about getting an Alfa, I'd say go for it. They're available, they're a great value (especially in today's market), you won't see too many others on the road, and they're a lot of fun.

Oh, and we got the license plate for it:

unnamed.jpg

(for those who don't get it - abbreviation for "Miscusi" or "Excuse me" in Italian)
 
My Caddy V-Sport gets around 19 in town on premium unleaded, 30mpg highway. Tough to not want to put the 490HP to work, lol. Luckily the wife has a slightly less-spirited driving habit than I do despite her propensity for speeding everywhere she goes.
 
SoonerAviator said:
My Caddy V-Sport gets around 19 in town on premium unleaded, 30mpg highway. Tough to not want to put the 490HP to work, lol. Luckily the wife has a slightly less-spirited driving habit than I do despite her propensity for speeding everywhere she goes.
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This pie chart definitely applies in this household.

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I’m using that excuse next time
 
Ted said:
I’m using that excuse next time
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Unfortunately for me, the 6.0L turbo gave up the ghost yesterday in the Excursion so I get to wait on a new one to arrive in a few days and tackle that swap. Then it'll be back to turbine sounds, lol.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Unfortunately for me, the 6.0L turbo gave up the ghost yesterday in the Excursion so I get to wait on a new one to arrive in a few days and tackle that swap. Then it'll be back to turbine sounds, lol.
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You’re upgrading it, right? :D
 
Ted said:
You’re upgrading it, right? :D
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Slightly. KC Turbo Stage 1, but it comes with 3 custom tunes using my engine mods and ECU/Trans logic. It's got a bit higher flow than the stock Garrett but I still have stock injectors so that's really the only limiting factor. Turbo is capable of 500HP but mine stays south of 400HP as a daily. I did do one sacrilegious thing by opting for the 13-blade instead of the 10-blade (like my current turbo) to quiet down the Turbo whistle a bit. With a 4" exhaust and no cat it can be pretty shrill when next to concrete walls or buildings. Ford went to the 13-blade in mid-'04 to improve throttle response and quiet down the whistle a bit.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Slightly. KC Turbo Stage 1, but it comes with 3 custom tunes using my engine mods and ECU/Trans logic. It's got a bit higher flow than the stock Garrett but I still have stock injectors so that's really the only limiting factor. Turbo is capable of 500HP but mine stays south of 400HP as a daily. I did do one sacrilegious thing by opting for the 13-blade instead of the 10-blade (like my current turbo) to quiet down the Turbo whistle a bit. With a 4" exhaust and no cat it can be pretty shrill when next to concrete walls or buildings. Ford went to the 13-blade in mid-'04 to improve throttle response and quiet down the whistle a bit.
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My 2003 F-350 had been upgraded to the 13-blade turbo at some point. I remember riding in 2003 6.0s with the 10-blade turbo when they were new, and yeah, that turbo was incredibly loud. Even as someone who loves the sound of a turbo, I found it obnoxiously loud. I think you'll be happier with the 13-blade. You can still hear the turbo and get that nice sound, but it's an appropriate volume.
 
Ted said:
My 2003 F-350 had been upgraded to the 13-blade turbo at some point. I remember riding in 2003 6.0s with the 10-blade turbo when they were new, and yeah, that turbo was incredibly loud. Even as someone who loves the sound of a turbo, I found it obnoxiously loud. I think you'll be happier with the 13-blade. You can still hear the turbo and get that nice sound, but it's an appropriate volume.
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Yeah I think so, too. With the larger than factory exhaust and no kitty, it amplifies the whistle as it is. I've never run any tunes on this 6.0L except a 40HP FICM tune (basically injector timing), but it doesn't increase boost pressure. The factory turbo would produce 29-30psi as it was, so I'm not inclined to push the limits too much with these "custom tunes", but the purchase of the turbo came with 3 free tuning maps (Eco Beast (90-120HP), Tow (30-50HP), Extreme (140-190HP)). Engine is studded/deleted with aftermarket steel (Kill Devil Diesel) o-ringed heads, but I don't want to push it on a daily driver.

Have you looked into the aftermarket on the Alfa Romeo? I'm sure you aren't inclined to mess with it yet (or at all), but I didn't know how much was available for it. Especially in the USA.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Yeah I think so, too. With the larger than factory exhaust and no kitty, it amplifies the whistle as it is. I've never run any tunes on this 6.0L except a 40HP FICM tune (basically injector timing), but it doesn't increase boost pressure. The factory turbo would produce 29-30psi as it was, so I'm not inclined to push the limits too much with these "custom tunes", but the purchase of the turbo came with 3 free tuning maps (Eco Beast (90-120HP), Tow (30-50HP), Extreme (140-190HP)). Engine is studded/deleted with aftermarket steel (Kill Devil Diesel) o-ringed heads, but I don't want to push it on a daily driver.
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Personally, I would throw a muffler on the 6.0 if it were mine. In fact, I did on mine. :)

I've got an AeroExhaust 5050XL on the RV. They make a 4" version (the 4040XL) that you could bolt in. However one thing the RV has that your Excursion doesn't have (I don't think) is using the turbo as an exhaust brake. That is exceedingly loud, like MU-2 level loud (not exaggerating) at very high pitch, and so it's good to get that muffled. The muffler is a see-through, very minimal restriction.

Have you looked into the aftermarket on the Alfa Romeo? I'm sure you aren't inclined to mess with it yet (or at all), but I didn't know how much was available for it. Especially in the USA.
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I have zero desire to do anything aftermarket to the Alfa Romeo from a performance perspective. Yes, there is an aftermarket. You can get tunes that push the engine to 700 HP and there are aftermarket exhausts. I really don't get the point in doing either. You're already talking about a car that runs 11s in the quarter mile stock, runs under 8 minutes around Nurburgring (also stock). We like it just the way it is. Plus with the 4 year/50k mile warranty, I want to not void that. But even after that warranty is up, I don't foresee myself doing anything with it.
 
Ted said:
Personally, I would throw a muffler on the 6.0 if it were mine. In fact, I did on mine. :)

I've got an AeroExhaust 5050XL on the RV. They make a 4" version (the 4040XL) that you could bolt in. However one thing the RV has that your Excursion doesn't have (I don't think) is using the turbo as an exhaust brake. That is exceedingly loud, like MU-2 level loud (not exaggerating) at very high pitch, and so it's good to get that muffled. The muffler is a see-through, very minimal restriction . . .
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It does have a Magnaflow muffler on it so the previous owner was at least somewhat tasteful with the mods, but I don't know how effective it is as I have never heard a straight-piped version. To be honest the actual exhaust noise isn't that bad, especially inside the vehicle with windows up. It's just the turbo whistle itself that is audible inside, and REALLY audible with the windows down. Most of that noise seems to come from under the hood though, rather than out of the exhaust pipe. I at least have a few video clips of it prior to this new turbo, so I'll be able to get a fairly good comparison soon.
 
SoonerAviator said:
It does have a Magnaflow muffler on it so the previous owner was at least somewhat tasteful with the mods, but I don't know how effective it is as I have never heard a straight-piped version. To be honest the actual exhaust noise isn't that bad, especially inside the vehicle with windows up. It's just the turbo whistle itself that is audible inside, and REALLY audible with the windows down. Most of that noise seems to come from under the hood though, rather than out of the exhaust pipe. I at least have a few video clips of it prior to this new turbo, so I'll be able to get a fairly good comparison soon.
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If it has a muffler of any sort, then you should be good there. A 6.0 with a full on straight pipe is pretty loud in my opinion, and not in a good way. The 10-blade turbos are exceedingly loud, so yeah, that makes sense that most of what you're hearing is that sound under the hood. Once you get the new turbo in, I'm sure you'll like the improvement.
 
Remember this is my wife’s daily driver, it’s under warranty, and it’s a lot of fun just the way it is.

Oh yeah, and I have like 17 other projects to finish up. :)
 
Ted said:
Remember this is my wife’s daily driver, it’s under warranty, and it’s a lot of fun just the way it is.

Oh yeah, and I have like 17 other projects to finish up. :)
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So you're saying that your previous comment should have had the qualifier "at the moment" added to the end? ;)
 
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SkyChaser said:
So you're saying that your previous comment should have had the qualifier "at the moment" added to the end? ;)
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In all likelihood, probably not. One thing I’ve learned is that while my wife and I are both gearheads, our preferences are different. And as long as this is her car, she’ll like it best stock vs modified.

If it were mine, well, it’s not something I’d likely buy for myself, even though I do really like it. And that there’s one of the key reasons we bought it - there aren’t many cars we come across that we both really like, and when we do come across one, we buy it.
 
Deceptive machine. I dig it. The other day I was at a stoplight with the 06 z06 vette with cold air intake and some other mods. Was dyno'd at 615hp. A black sedan with heavily tinted windows and what sounded like some exhaust work wanted to race. Always game but didn't take it too seriously. Had a good launch and thought the guy would back down. Nope, came roaring around. Exhaust was no fart can. Pure muscle. Turned out to be a Holden Gtsr w1 and it was a customer of mine driving it. No clue how he got it here but it was impressive. Average looking sedan with 645 horsepower. Giddyup.
 
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Wheels would be one thing, but tire prices are crazy. Almost had to do a HELOC to put new shoes on my F250.
 
No doubt, the tires would cost a fortune. The stock tires on this are fairly "common" at 255s front and 285s rear, on 20" wheels (21s are an option). About $1700 out the door for a new set of OEM tires. And from what I've read, it seems that's what they set the record at Nurburging with. If those tires are good enough to run under 8 minutes at the 'ring, they're good enough for me.
 
Ted said:
So far, the Alfa really has been a good car. By the time my wife gets home from her errands today, it will have right about at 3k miles on it. So far, knock on wood, we've had zero dealer visits. The only issue is that occasionally it will give us a "service parking brake" message (it has an electric parking brake like many modern cars), but it always seems to work just fine.

The UI of the infotainment system is very good and intuitive to me. It's simple and ergonomic to use. One of the things I really like is that it has Apple CarPlay AND built-in navigation. Going on a long trip and you don't want to be reliant on your phone (especially through areas of no signal)? No problem. Going local and just want directions for how to get from A to B that's easiest pulled on your phone? No problem.

Every time I drive it I say "This is just such a nice car to drive." Out of our fleet, it's the one I'd most want to take on a long trip if we were just looking for a car to drive somewhere. It's extremely comfortable, the steering and handling is fantastic, and of course it's fast and sounds good.

Sometimes the transmission doesn't do what I want it to, but that mostly comes down to the fact that it's an automatic and it can't predict everything you want 100% of the time. The different driving modes change the transmission and engine response as well as the suspension. Driving in "Dynamic" mode (basically sport mode) is generally what I do and it makes the exhaust louder/more aggressive. However when you do that, it won't shift into top gear unless you manually tell it to. Makes sense in some ways.

Fuel economy? Yeah, it's not very good. We get something around 18-18.5 on premium in our normal driving cycle. By today's standards that's really bad, and the 4-cylinder does way, way better. But keep in mind you don't buy a 505 HP SUV because you want to get good fuel economy. It still does better than the GL550 we had before, which got something in the 15-17 range, also on premium. We also specifically do not use the "Advanced Efficiency" mode with cylinder deactivation or auto start-stop in traffic (not a fan of either of those) and that probably does impact things some.

I do wish that it had cooled/vented seats like my Ram does, and on a luxury car with a sticker price of nearly $90k that seems a silly omission in today's market. However I haven't found myself missing it overall, even in our hot Kansas summer temps.

So in summary, I can't give anyone a reason not to buy one of these so far. It really is a fun car that we enjoy. How will it be 5-10 years down the road? Who knows, but there's nothing so far that's been an issue. If you're thinking about getting an Alfa, I'd say go for it. They're available, they're a great value (especially in today's market), you won't see too many others on the road, and they're a lot of fun.

Oh, and we got the license plate for it:

View attachment 108277

(for those who don't get it - abbreviation for "Miscusi" or "Excuse me" in Italian)
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I think most people are going to read: "scuzzy" :):)

Nice car indeed Ted. Congrats.
 
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This past weekend was the first time we took the Alfa on a road trip. All of our other driving has been local (which can still be relatively far in the KC area). We drove down to Branson, around 200 miles each way, with the kids in the back.

The Alfa proved to be a good road trip car. By our standards it gets good mileage, getting a bit over 20i. Granted that's considered horrible these days but the Mercedes GL 550 we had previously would've gotten something around 17 on the same trip. In fact, we did this exact same trip with it about 5 years back, so we know what kind of mileage it gets.

The car is comfortable and other than the standard bickering that goes with three kids across the back, there was nothing truly notable to complain about. The only things I could construe as negatives with the car are that the seats, being on the sporty side, started to get a bit firm for my back after a few hours. Nothing bad but enough that I didn't mind getting out and standing up when we were done.

The adaptive cruise control is nice, but it remains a bit too aggressive. It also doesn't allow coasting on downhills, something that became more noticeable approaching Branson - it will downshift and apply brakes to maintain the set speed. As someone who enjoys energy management, I find this annoying as I end up having to cancel the cruise control so the car can coast and accelerate on the downhills, but I can see why they would program it that way.

On the highway I notice that the large and race-spec brakes (as I recall 8 piston fronts and 7 piston rears, with enormous rotors and aggressive pads) get pretty grabby and that bugged me more on this trip. Maybe the solution is to find a less aggressive pad when they come due for replacement. Overall, I mostly view this as some lack of refinement that simply became Alfa engineering saying "Good enough" and also noting that this is a street car, but one that can still run 7:52 around Nurburgring, basically as it sits. There are going to be some compromises in street manners to do that.

One thing the car does is it has an electronic parking brake, which at stop lights it obviously engages and puts the transmission into neutral. I think those are sliding pin calipers, and they seem to bind a bit. At some point I'll take the wheels off and lube them, and that will hopefully address that.

We still are very happy with the car at just about 14k miles on it (although the original tires only lasted about 12k - 200 TW tires so we replaced them with 680 TW Michelins this time around), and have only had it to the dealer for the scheduled oil change.
 
Why would it engage a parking brake while at stop lights/shift into neutral? That seems . . . odd.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Why would it engage a parking brake while at stop lights/shift into neutral? That seems . . . odd.
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My suspicion is that it comes down to reducing idle emissions. The car has start-stop (which we turn off, but it defaults to on) and with modern regulations and a thirsty and inefficient engine by modern standards, this was probably part of how they were able to meet the required numbers.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Why would it engage a parking brake while at stop lights/shift into neutral? That seems . . . odd.
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I would presume it is due to an automated manual transmission, however, the specs call it an 8 speed automatic. I've owned a few cars with a dual clutch automated manual gearbox that will automatically hold brake pressure to keep it from rolling back on a slope since the car downshifts to neutral stopped. I suppose it could be considered a driver convenience/safety device on a light weight high torque vehicle such as the Stelvio QF.
 
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