Airshares Elite - gone...

Another good idea,gone. Another sign that GA is on the way out.
 
Not sure about that. I view it as a sign that premium services with higher overhead might not be viable.
 
Given their costs I would guess that are not many people who could afford their prices and did not want to own their own aircraft.
 
I actually considered them. They didnt have planes positioned close enough - but it seemed ok. However, my first year I flew 310 hours in my SR20 - now I am glad I just straight out own mine.
 
Not many of these operations left...is it because Cirrus got their act together and made financing easier, maintenance easier (5 yr spinner to tail offered all the time), or is it people would prefer to rent time on a PC-12 for similar money or don't want a Cirrus (seems to be the only airframe option except planesense)?
 
Frax tends to be good for the fractional owner, but a losing business proposition for the managing company.
 
Frax tends to be good for the fractional owner, but a losing business proposition for the managing company.


They certainly charged a premium for it. If you calculated it out, other than the acquisition costs, all in you were at $330/hr.

Given that they probably had a good warranty deal with Cirrus, how does that not work out well for the mgmt company?
 
They certainly charged a premium for it. If you calculated it out, other than the acquisition costs, all in you were at $330/hr.

Given that they probably had a good warranty deal with Cirrus, how does that not work out well for the mgmt company?

When the going rate for rentals is $275/hr.
 
Anyone in the market for a late model SR22?
 
They certainly charged a premium for it. If you calculated it out, other than the acquisition costs, all in you were at $330/hr.

Given that they probably had a good warranty deal with Cirrus, how does that not work out well for the mgmt company?

If you dig in and look at the actual numbers of a frax company (and I have), you will find that it's not really a great business.

Ignoring acquisition costs, I would be surprised if the company were producing more than $1-2 M per year before salaries and business overhead. And a net loss after those costs were accounted for.
 
If you dig in and look at the actual numbers of a frax company (and I have), you will find that it's not really a great business.

Ignoring acquisition costs, I would be surprised if the company were producing more than $1-2 M per year before salaries and business overhead. And a net loss after those costs were accounted for.

So what was structurally wrong with the business model? Did they fold because they were capitalized and staffed to handle 2-3x the volume that they got? Are the things that a fractional GenAv operator does for the owner/pilot (pull the plane out according to a given reservation calendar; keep the database up to date; oversee annuals and unscheduled maintenance) the kind of things any FBO could do for any given group of owners on a cost+monthly fee basis?
 
I would think required headcount should be _minimal_ if they use the FBOs as their "boots on the ground".
 
So what was structurally wrong with the business model? Did they fold because they were capitalized and staffed to handle 2-3x the volume that they got? Are the things that a fractional GenAv operator does for the owner/pilot (pull the plane out according to a given reservation calendar; keep the database up to date; oversee annuals and unscheduled maintenance) the kind of things any FBO could do for any given group of owners on a cost+monthly fee basis?

It's the same problem as with sail boats, the market will only support so much, the markets both are frugal millionairs.
 
I looked into Planesmart and I don't know how closely the business model matches Airshares, but Planesmart made NO sense at all.

Most are all doomed to failure, because they are not a simple aircraft rental operation, but a convuluted mess of shared ownership, professional aircraft management, club type operations, etc.

First problem I encountered was they had no planning beyond the first three years with a new aircraft that is under full warranty. So when the question was asked about who pays for a new engine at TBO, they looked at me with blank stares. So I'm thinking, great I have an aircraft that I may not even fly because of the aircraft pool model and now I have to pony up for 1/8th or 1/4 of an engine, BS.

Same question becomes ambiguous when you ask, "what happens if someone is flying the plane and burns up the cylinders?". They said, "who ever did that will have to pay for it". I said, "how do you prove who did it if 5 people flew it the week it happened?". Answer is no one will admit it, so once again the "owners" get a nice bill that month for their share of a top overhaul that they had no part in causing. Even simple things like flat spotted tires are likely to happen quite often and or course no one will know anything.

Last, the pool idea works if you have a lot of exactly the same aircraft. So if you "buy" a turbo, that doesn't mean that's what you fly since they may not be available when you want one, like on a holiday weekend.
 
FBO in San Antonio did that. It took days for some owners to get their planes out of the maintenance shop....
 
Never seen a run well one announce they were folding either.

Not specifically speaking of GenAv businesses, but well-run companies do announce when they fold. It's call a winding-down of business. Any active accounts are transitioned to other providers; assets are arranged to be sold; leases terminated; payables are arranged for; employees are given notice and/or let go -- key people will be offered last-day bonuses to stay until the end.

Its uncommon in any field. If the business is profitable, it will usually be sold as a going concern; if unprofitable, it will continue to scratch out what it can until circumstances force their hand.
 
I'm sure it's done somewhere. Gotta read carefully. I said I've never seen it. ;)
 
I agree with DJ. If a company is "well run" (the owners and CEOs are decent people)and they decide to fold for some reason or other they will give notice.
If the company is not "well run" (the owners and CEOs are crooks) they will close the doors at close of business on Friday, and simply not open them on Monday morning. No warning at all.
Same happened to a chain of GM dealerships. Employees went home for the weekend. Came in to work on Monday morning to find the doors locked, and their keys didn't fit anymore. Customers cars in the service dept. in various stages of disrepair, parts orders needing to be delivered, customers comming in to pick up their new car they had ordered..... What a mess.
 
I agree with DJ. If a company is "well run" (the owners and CEOs are decent people)and they decide to fold for some reason or other they will give notice.
If the company is not "well run" (the owners and CEOs are crooks) they will close the doors at close of business on Friday, and simply not open them on Monday morning. No warning at all.
Same happened to a chain of GM dealerships. Employees went home for the weekend. Came in to work on Monday morning to find the doors locked, and their keys didn't fit anymore. Customers cars in the service dept. in various stages of disrepair, parts orders needing to be delivered, customers comming in to pick up their new car they had ordered..... What a mess.

"Well run" has no bearing on this. Sometimes it's forced by creditors. Including taxation authorities (I still recall a brothel in Nevada that was run by the govt for a while).

If the company were truly well run, it likely would not be in financial distress.

In some cases there may be laws that dictate notification of plant closings.
 
"Well run" has no bearing on this. Sometimes it's forced by creditors. Including taxation authorities (I still recall a brothel in Nevada that was run by the govt for a while).

If the company were truly well run, it likely would not be in financial distress.

In some cases there may be laws that dictate notification of plant closings.

:lol: Yep, I remember when the IRS was operating the Mustang Ranch, note, the doors did not close to business.:lol:
 
:lol: Yep, I remember when the IRS was operating the Mustang Ranch, note, the doors did not close to business.:lol:


I always thought that was one of the funniest parts of the crazy history of that place.

That and a number of those places having airstrips until either the liability got too high or the big wigs had access to friend's satellite photos.

Who knows. LOL. ;)
 
I always thought that was one of the funniest parts of the crazy history of that place.

That and a number of those places having airstrips until either the liability got too high or the big wigs had access to friend's satellite photos.

Who knows. LOL. ;)

I don't know if the Sperry Car tradition made it to the new management, but it used to be when the Sperry Car tied up on the siding in Sparks right by the MR, one of the girls would come over and invite the crew over, at least the cocktails were free.
 
Sorry...beg to differ on the hourly at AirShares. I did all the math. If you factor in depreciation, it was just shy of $500 / hour. I went through it with AirShares and they verified my calculations.

At that rate, it made more sense to buy my own SR22! The 8 - 10 year old models are an incredible bargain due to oversupply (lots of folks bought them and want to trade for newer models)...under $200K for amazing redundant avionics, the parachute, and a FAST, comfortable cool machine that's finally amassing one of the top safety records in GA.


They certainly charged a premium for it. If you calculated it out, other than the acquisition costs, all in you were at $330/hr.

Given that they probably had a good warranty deal with Cirrus, how does that not work out well for the mgmt company?
 
Gotcha. My figure was not including depreciation.
 
Sorry...beg to differ on the hourly at AirShares. I did all the math. If you factor in depreciation, it was just shy of $500 / hour. I went through it with AirShares and they verified my calculations.

At that rate, it made more sense to buy my own SR22! The 8 - 10 year old models are an incredible bargain due to oversupply (lots of folks bought them and want to trade for newer models)...under $200K for amazing redundant avionics, the parachute, and a FAST, comfortable cool machine that's finally amassing one of the top safety records in GA.

330 hr to fly a late model sr22t including everything (having the airplane ready for flight and at the end you just leave it in the ramp, full service) seems reasonable. specially, if you can overnight and take the airplane away from the fbo practice area. this is in a fractional LEASE.
 
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