Airplanes under 8gph?

MachFly said:
I'm sorry but I refuse to believe that Diamond did such a thing. I'l hoping it's just a typo. :yes:
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Did they make any mods to the DA20-C1 model that would affect speed? I've actually found several other posts on other boards with similar results -- a few folks had no problem hitting 130kt while others were stuck around 115kt, all claiming to have C1 (presumably all with 125hp). Almost makes me wonder if some folks are confusing TAS and IAS or something.

For example, there's this AOPA Flight Training article which reports a TAS of 133 kt: http://flighttraining.aopa.org/learntofly/articles/diamond0308.html

Here's a report from a prototype Eclipse with a CS-prop getting 145kt: http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/1999/katana9911.html

And this discussion with a PIREP of 135kt: http://www.studentpilot.com/interact/forum/showthread.php?39917-DA20-C1-Cruise-Speed
 
OrangeOkie said:
Ercoupe 415 5gph

ercoupN998N.jpg
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Umm....
 
dukeblue219 said:
Did they make any mods to the DA20-C1 model that would affect speed? I've actually found several other posts on other boards with similar results -- a few folks had no problem hitting 130kt while others were stuck around 115kt, all claiming to have C1 (presumably all with 125hp). Almost makes me wonder if some folks are confusing TAS and IAS or something.

For example, there's this AOPA Flight Training article which reports a TAS of 133 kt: http://flighttraining.aopa.org/learntofly/articles/diamond0308.html

Here's a report from a prototype Eclipse with a CS-prop getting 145kt: http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/1999/katana9911.html

And this discussion with a PIREP of 135kt: http://www.studentpilot.com/interact/forum/showthread.php?39917-DA20-C1-Cruise-Speed
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I can get ours to indicate 120-125 fairly easily with no wheel pants.

I'd love to retrofit one with a CS prop, I bet that would really make it zoom
 
dukeblue219 said:
I'd do it on my Tiger first... now there's a plane just screaming for a CS prop.
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There's a 200 HP STC for the Tiger that I think includes a constant speed prop, though I may be making the CS prop part up.
 
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zaitcev said:
N87PM is an M20J, same as David has, IIRC. Frankly I do not believe in 145 kts on 8 gph in it. M20C with 180 hp could do it, I suppose.
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I think the J has a better chance of 145 KTAS on 8 gph than the C does - It's an aerodynamically cleaner airplane.

Also, I don't think 145 on a J on 8 gph is an unreasonable expectation at all. It'll do 155-160 on 10 gph, and that last 10 knots is expensive - The R model I fly will do 180 KTAS on 17 gph, but it'll do 170 KTAS on 12 gph! I'll have to see what it'll do on 8 sometime.

KSCessnaDriver said:
Up high, I'm fairly sure a DA40 could run 135 knots or so, LOP at about 8 GPH. Pull it back for 130 and it would for sure.
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I've run our DA40 at 7.5 gph LOP and gotten 135 KTAS. 6500 MSL.

PilotAlan said:
How did you manage to burn 10gph with an O320? With a fuel leak?
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High power settings will do it. Both the DA40 and M20R that I'm most familiar with will burn around twice as much during the initial climb as they do in cruise. (DA40: 18 gph at takeoff, M20R: 25 gph at takeoff).

cocolos said:
I am just curious what are some really efficient airplanes out there? Maybe something that does at least 110kts.
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You need to clarify what you mean by "efficient". If you're trying to get yourself up in the air solo and fly around in circles building time, then you want the lowest possible gallons per hour. Lots and lots of small LSA-type birds that'll get up and fly slow at 3-4 gph.

OTOH, if you want to actually go somewhere, then GPH is irrelevant - You're looking for nmpg at that point. And you still need to define the mission - How many seats/what useful load do you want?

Personally, as a pretty big guy, there isn't a 2-seater that I'd really want to take on a long cross country for comfort issues. The most efficient birds I've flown are the aforementioned Diamond DA40 Star and the Mooney M20R Ovation. The DA40 in LOP economy cruise will do 135 KTAS on 7.5 gph, though you might need to install GAMIjectors to run it there comfortably - I run ours right at peak if I'm high enough and get 140 KTAS on 9 gph. So, you're talking 15.5-18 nmpg.

In the M20R, it gets between 167-175 KTAS, depending on altitude, at 12 gph. It's really happy at 9-10,000, that's where I've seen 175. But, you're looking at 14.2 nmpg, give or take a couple tenths. Not quite as efficient as the Diamond, but it's going 30 knots faster, if that matters to you.
 
MachFly said:
130kts from a DA20? How?

The max I ever got it to was 115kts (maybe 120kts). That was a DA20-C1.
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I pretty much always trued 130 knots in the DA-20-C1 I used to fly.
 
dukeblue219 said:
Did they make any mods to the DA20-C1 model that would affect speed? I've actually found several other posts on other boards with similar results -- a few folks had no problem hitting 130kt while others were stuck around 115kt, all claiming to have C1 (presumably all with 125hp). Almost makes me wonder if some folks are confusing TAS and IAS or something.

For example, there's this AOPA Flight Training article which reports a TAS of 133 kt: http://flighttraining.aopa.org/learntofly/articles/diamond0308.html

Here's a report from a prototype Eclipse with a CS-prop getting 145kt: http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/1999/katana9911.html

And this discussion with a PIREP of 135kt: http://www.studentpilot.com/interact/forum/showthread.php?39917-DA20-C1-Cruise-Speed
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Yeah I think the reason why I don't remember getting anywhere near 130 is because I didn't have wheel fairings.

Didn't know CS prop was an option for a DA20.

Now Dimaond just need to make it aerobatic and it will be perfect.
 
cocolos said:
I am just curious what are some really efficient airplanes out there? Maybe something that does at least 110kts.
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My 421 only burns 8 GPH :D.........................at idle, when I lean it a bit. :mad2:
 
MachFly said:
Yeah I think the reason why I don't remember getting anywhere near 130 is because I didn't have wheel fairings.

Didn't know CS prop was an option for a DA20.

Now Dimaond just need to make it aerobatic and it will be perfect.
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Neither did I. Either something was wrong with it, or you're talking about indicated airspeed at some limited power setting.

I flew several of them...all C1s..fixed pitch..and they all did at least 130 knots true at 7,000 or so WOT.
 
jesse said:
Neither did I. Either something was wrong with it, or you're talking about indicated airspeed at some limited power setting.

I flew several of them...all C1s..fixed pitch..and they all did at least 130 knots true at 7,000 or so WOT.
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Don't know what to tell you. Maybe I just don't remember, it's been almost 5 years.
 
This is a trick question right?
Ok, so it technically isn't an airplane, but I have gotten up to 4 hrs/gal. assuming about 2 gallons for the Aerotow. I may have done better than that on the autotow.

Brian_Logan.jpg


Brian
 
Datapoint, 1998 180HP 172R
Set power to 8gph
Airspeed was between 110 and 115KIAS
Just over 900lbs useful...
 
MachFly said:
Yeah I think the reason why I don't remember getting anywhere near 130 is because I didn't have wheel fairings.

Didn't know CS prop was an option for a DA20.

Now Dimaond just need to make it aerobatic and it will be perfect.
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C1s are all fixed pitch, the A1 with the rotax is CS. THAT would be an efficient plane!
 
Skylane81E said:
C1s are all fixed pitch, the A1 with the rotax is CS. THAT would be an efficient plane!
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Right, I think the one reference I posted was a one-off prototype (presumably with an electric CS prop). BUT, it did get me thinking. There ARE differently pitched props available for the C1. Is it possible that some folks have flown with a more climb-oriented prop while others have used a cruise prop? That would explain some of the variances.

For example: http://www.sweetaviation.com/wood-prop-nuances.php

They link to an updated AFM supplement for the STC'd prop, which has much faster cruise numbers.
4000' 2700RPM (83%) 139ktas 8.8GPH
4000' 2600RPM (79%) 133ktas 8.0GPH
...
8000' 2500RPM (66%) 125ktas 6.2GPH

I'll bet that some of the folks like me spouting off about DA20's cruising at 130 knots didn't realize we were renting planes with a modified prop.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I've run our DA40 at 7.5 gph LOP and gotten 135 KTAS. 6500 MSL.
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Ah, most of my cross country flying was either under 100 miles, so I stayed around 3500MSL or really long, in which case most of my flying was at 10-12,000 feet.
 
dukeblue219 said:
Right, I think the one reference I posted was a one-off prototype (presumably with an electric CS prop). BUT, it did get me thinking. There ARE differently pitched props available for the C1. Is it possible that some folks have flown with a more climb-oriented prop while others have used a cruise prop? That would explain some of the variances.

For example: http://www.sweetaviation.com/wood-prop-nuances.php

They link to an updated AFM supplement for the STC'd prop, which has much faster cruise numbers.
4000' 2700RPM (83%) 139ktas 8.8GPH
4000' 2600RPM (79%) 133ktas 8.0GPH
...
8000' 2500RPM (66%) 125ktas 6.2GPH

I'll bet that some of the folks like me spouting off about DA20's cruising at 130 knots didn't realize we were renting planes with a modified prop.
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Ours does not have a modified prop 125 indicated with out pants, with the original Sensenich.

Also those fuel burns seem suspect to me
 
Then there's the Quasar Lite. The 2-cylinder engine burns up to 3 gph, right around 2 in cruise, I think. It has a 1000hr TBO, but apparently an overhaul only costs a few thousand dollars.

Avewb article: http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/quasar_lite_fuel_efficient_aircraft_197727-1.html

Here's one for sale: http://www.controller.com/listingsd...le/QUASAR-214SL/2008-QUASAR-214SL/1162510.htm

That being said, it's kinda--no, very--sketchy. There's really no information on it. They claim that "certification is expected in 2012," so who knows what the deal is. Climb rate wouldn't be so hot, but other than that, it seems like it would stand a chance in the market.
 
Quasar is not really an option. It's not because it's Brasilian: we have 3 to 5 times as many SeaMaxes flying in the country than Quasars. But in my opinion there's no way it's making the numbers. Quasar takes off the ground on 60 hp only because of its almost glider-like high aspect wing. It may be making 100 knots on a good day, but I doubt it.

BTW, a comparable aircraft would be a Gull with the same HKS 700E engine. It also makes the numbers by using an glider style wing. But Gull does not make any pretenses at being anything other than ultralight. Those 4-stroke Gulls are difficult to find these days. I was very tempted by one guy in Texas selling one for $15k. It looked like in good order, but the idiot seller took out all the expensive avionics to sell it separately, including the transponder. Unfortunately he was based within DFW weil and I did not want the hassle of flying it out with authorization.

P.S. SeaMax, of course, has the real S-LSA paperwork, but _all_ registrations of Quasars are experimentals. I'm pretty sure they completely failed in their dealing with FAA, or they would've sold at least one S-LSA by now.
 
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