Airplane ownership - real numbers

saddletramp

saddletramp

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saddletramp
My wife & I spent the day preparing our income tax info for our accountant. After just returning from 20 days in Hawaii it was a quick way to get back to reality.

We bought our 1957 182 in July. Since we've owned it we've spent around $11,000 on it. She was a bit shocked at that figure & I gently reminded her that airplane ownership isn't for the faint of heart.

Since people are always asking what it really costs to own an airplane I was hoping this information would be useful.

We paid cash for our airplane so there is no interest or payments in the numbers. We also didn't figure in the loss of potential income from our invested dough. We've also had no major expenditures on maintenance or upgrades. The expenses include fuel, one oil change, hangar rent, insurance, fuel, & equipment we have purchased such as headsets etc. I also bought a used riding mower to help move the beast since our hangar is on a slope. We flew a little over 50 hours in the seven months.

Do we regret the purchase? HELL NO. In the past seven months we've enjoyed many great fights & met some great people. I've also given my wife five hours of formal dual that she has truly enjoyed.
 
Thanks for those numbers, really helps someone who is looking to own soon. Thanks much

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You're welcome. Keep in mind the first few months of ownership are the worst since there is so many things needed. I haven't owned a plane since the early 90's so I'm starting at ground zero.
 
Did you have a prebuy?

Did you know these snags were coming and addressed them in your offer?
 
It didn't have any snags. The airplane has been perfect.

I should have added that $4,800 of that was state sales tax.
 
My wife and I just bought a Twin Bonanza. She has more or less asked that I not share the actual costs with her. She understands it's not cheap, and that I won't go doing anything bank-breaking (like an engine) without a discussion with her, but I don't think she really wants to know (and neither do I) what "not cheap" means.
 
Your expenses for the 172 sound high, but knowing that $4,800 of that was for state sales tax (hopefully a one time expense), that would drop you to $6,200. Since some of your purchases are one time (headsets, etc.), especially if you count the riding mower, your "normal" expenses (if there is such a thing) sound like they will be in the $4,000 plus or minus a little for almost 8 months of ownership. We fly about the same as you (50-75 hours a year on average based on over 10 years with our current plane), and our all in cost including fuel usually run about $5,000 a year. We are in a hangar. While I realize these are on the lower end of ownership cost, since we are both flying common Cessna's, there are a lot of airplanes that are similar in cost. I believe if a person can handle $5,000 a year in spending on an airplane, they can afford to own as long as they don't get too far up the food chain or have something like a significant engine problem. We could cut about $2,3,00 from that figure if we moved to a tie-down, but as long as I can afford it, we will stick with a hangar. This post is added for what it might be worth to those considering ownership. Like you, I think it is worth it. We only get one turn here.
 
Very helpful, thank you. Hoping to be a future owner.

I've had a spreadsheet going for a while now and the best way I can justify the cost of ownership vs renting if I fly only 50-60 hrs/yr is their standby cost" of 2.5 hrs/day for days that I'm grounded at my predicted destinations (anywhere from 3 to 7days). That of course does not include grounding for weather, which makes the math even more favorable for ownership. All in all, the rule of thumb of 100hrs/yr does not fit my situation...its break-even at 50-60hrs for me. Your mileage may vary.
 
My break even is around the 50-60 hour range also. What I found when we were "between airplanes," was that besides all the headaches people talk about with renting, I just didn't fly as much. If you can just run out to the airport and fly to watch the sunset or just because you finished the yard early and still have a little energy left, you might not do that if you have to schedule a rental ahead of time, etc. Besides, when you own, the airplane needs to be flown. I consider flying as therapy to help me get through the work week.
 
somorris said:
Your expenses for the 172 sound high, but knowing that $4,800 of that was for state sales tax (hopefully a one time expense), that would drop you to $6,200. Since some of your purchases are one time (headsets, etc.), especially if you count the riding mower, your "normal" expenses (if there is such a thing) sound like they will be in the $4,000 plus or minus a little for almost 8 months of ownership. We fly about the same as you (50-75 hours a year on average based on over 10 years with our current plane), and our all in cost including fuel usually run about $5,000 a year. We are in a hangar. While I realize these are on the lower end of ownership cost, since we are both flying common Cessna's, there are a lot of airplanes that are similar in cost. I believe if a person can handle $5,000 a year in spending on an airplane, they can afford to own as long as they don't get too far up the food chain or have something like a significant engine problem. We could cut about $2,3,00 from that figure if we moved to a tie-down, but as long as I can afford it, we will stick with a hangar. This post is added for what it might be worth to those considering ownership. Like you, I think it is worth it. We only get one turn here.
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I wish hanger in our area were as cheap as yours. T hanger , no heat runs about 250 /mo here, 400 for heated

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saddletramp said:
It didn't have any snags. The airplane has been perfect.

I should have added that $4,800 of that was state sales tax.
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OK, I was going to say the original figure sounded pretty high (still does since you don't have any annual/maint cost except one oil change in there), are you paying crazy hangar rent?
 
WannFly said:
I wish hanger in our area were as cheap as yours. T hanger , no heat runs about 250 /mo here, 400 for heated

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That's very cheap. Me, $400/mo, large (43') T with bifold door, no heat.
 
paflyer said:
That's very cheap. Me, $400/mo, large (43') T with bifold door, no heat.
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Ha. And here I thought everything is expensive here. I would love to get heated hangars though, considering winter here normally starts in Oct and goes till may

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Remember, that's 7 months of ownership. The 0-470 is a thirsty engine so over $3,000 of that is fuel alone. Our hangar rent is only $125 a month. I did prepay for a full years of insurance which was included in those numbers, so I still have five months of insurance left.

The other expense that was in there was the $800 I spent in reinstating my CFI. I bought a ton of new books & $600 for the check ride.

I also had the mode c certified & the pitot/static done. Both were out of date.

I also spent close to $500 on tools & supplies from Aircraft Spruce.

It all adds up fast.
 
saddletramp said:
Remember, that's 7 months of ownership. The 0-470 is a thirsty engine so over $3,000 of that is fuel alone. Our hangar rent is only $125 a month. I did prepay for a full years of insurance which was included in those numbers, so I still have five months of insurance left.

The other expense that was in there was the $800 I spent in reinstating my CFI. I bought a ton of new books & $600 for the check ride.

I also had the mode c certified & the pitot/static done. Both were out of date.

I also spent close to $500 on tools & supplies from Aircraft Spruce.

It all adds up fast.
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Its all in what people want to do... I am just a average dude with a average factory job and work 12 hour shifts during the week. Plus I sell used pilot stuff on the side to pay for av gas.
I own 3 planes now, I had 4 but just sold my Cub (mistake).... I also fly a V35B Bonanza that does not belong to me. I really don't think flying is that expensive. One cost I save is insurance, I fly my stuff uninsured.
It cost more to keep up and operate my boat than it does a airplane. If I didn't have my money invested in airplanes and fly on the weekends I would just be blowing money somewhere else.
I have some buddies that love to sit in bars on the weekend. I get comments from them that I am rich because I have a bunch of planes. I tell them they are rich because they drink lots of beers and smoke lots of cigs. I have low life people at work that do not have a penny to their name. All they do is complain how broke they are! They have the same job as me! They are the ones that will not work 10 seconds over. They can't pay bills but drink a 12 pack and smoke 2 packs of cigs a day!
The point of all this is you can buy and fly airplanes instead of drink and smoke :) Its all what you want to spend your money on.
 
If you want to be real cheap buy a old Cessna 150 or 172. Tie it down outside for free and leave the insurance off. That is cheap flying!
I do not understand why anyone would be in a club or rent vs this option.
When I want to hop in my plane and fly it is usually a spur of the moment deal. If I had to schedule around other folks it would be a burden on my life! I don't understand how some members on here share a plane with 16 people! And brag how great of a deal it is. LOL!
And from looking at that club cost you could own much cheaper..... I don't get it?
 
midcap said:
Minus the sales tax, I spend more than that a year on eating out. I'd say that's not a bad hobby.
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Plus when your done you will sell the airplane for a much higher amount than you bought it for. If you do it right. I have made money on every plane I have sold.
 
pigpenracing said:
Plus when your done you will sell the airplane for a much higher amount than you bought it for. If you do it right. I have made money on every plane I have sold.
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If you can get it at a good price I am sure you can make money.

Any plane I buy, I;ll probably keep it for a long long time.
 
pigpenracing said:
If you want to be real cheap buy a old Cessna 150 or 172. Tie it down outside for free and leave the insurance off. That is cheap flying!
I do not understand why anyone would be in a club or rent vs this option.
When I want to hop in my plane and fly it is usually a spur of the moment deal. If I had to schedule around other folks it would be a burden on my life! I don't understand how some members on here share a plane with 16 people! And brag how great of a deal it is. LOL!
And from looking at that club cost you could own much cheaper..... I don't get it?
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...unless you buy a 150, get ripped off by first couple of mechanics to the tune of 5k, live in ATL where tiedown is 168/month. Insurance at 450/year is a rounding error after all that :)
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Very helpful, thank you. Hoping to be a future owner.

I've had a spreadsheet going for a while now and the best way I can justify the cost of ownership vs renting if I fly only 50-60 hrs/yr is their standby cost" of 2.5 hrs/day for days that I'm grounded at my predicted destinations (anywhere from 3 to 7days). That of course does not include grounding for weather, which makes the math even more favorable for ownership. All in all, the rule of thumb of 100hrs/yr does not fit my situation...its break-even at 50-60hrs for me. Your mileage may vary.
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1) Ownership can never be "justified"
2) Depending on how onerous and inconvenient and inflexible your renting situation is, you'll likely fly more if you own as long as you don't have to drive too far for an affordable/available tiedown/hangar
3) If I still had to rent, I'd probably have given up on flying on any kind of regular basis.
 
saddletramp said:
Remember, that's 7 months of ownership. The 0-470 is a thirsty engine so over $3,000 of that is fuel alone. Our hangar rent is only $125 a month. I did prepay for a full years of insurance which was included in those numbers, so I still have five months of insurance left.

The other expense that was in there was the $800 I spent in reinstating my CFI. I bought a ton of new books & $600 for the check ride.

I also had the mode c certified & the pitot/static done. Both were out of date.

I also spent close to $500 on tools & supplies from Aircraft Spruce.

It all adds up fast.
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OK, now the details come leaking out. You didn't spend $11000 to operate your plane for 7 months, it's more like -

3000 fuel
700 ins (guess, pro rata)
400 IFR check and oil change
875 hangar
=====
$4975 total; extrapolate for a year at same rates, $8500/yr
Then you need to add annual plus anyone's guess on maint/repairs ...

Good guess is $12000/yr budget unless something major breaks (and some day it will, just accept it)
 
$12,000 a year is probably a good number. My expenses overall in 2017 will be much higher since I bought the A model 182 to use for towing gliders in season. Since I'll have numerous tow pilots on the insurance that cost will triple. Towing will also take it's toll on the engine over time.

The good news is that it will be generating revenue. (Note: I didn't say profit).
 
saddletramp said:
Since we've owned it we've spent around $11,000 on it

... The other expense that was in there was the $800 I spent in reinstating my CFI. I bought a ton of new books & $600 for the check ride.
Click to expand...

I see that you have a very broad definition of the cost of owning a plane.
 
saddletramp said:
$12,000 a year is probably a good number. My expenses overall in 2017 will be much higher since I bought the A model 182 to use for towing gliders in season. Since I'll have numerous tow pilots on the insurance that cost will triple. Towing will also take it's toll on the engine over time.

The good news is that it will be generating revenue. (Note: I didn't say profit).
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Ah, didn't know this was part of a business venture. Hope it's in an LLC or you're otherwise protected and heavily insured. Depreciation is your friend.
 
NoHeat said:
I see that you have a very broad definition of the cost of owning a plane.
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I see a lot of "how much per hour" quotes that are through the roof and then you find out they included a new panel into the opex.
 
paflyer said:
Ah, didn't know this was part of a business venture. Hope it's in an LLC or you're otherwise protected and heavily insured. Depreciation is your friend.
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I also purchased a two-place sailplane. I'm planning to give glider rides & instruction. I operated a similar operation in the early 90's so it's not a new business concept. If it all breaks even I'll be happy.

Yes, I'm all set up with an LLC & heavily insured.
 
saddletramp said:
I also purchased a two-place sailplane. I'm planning to give glider rides & instruction. I operated a similar operation in the early 90's so it's not a new business concept. If it all breaks even I'll be happy.

Yes, I'm all set up with an LLC & heavily insured.
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Good luck!
 
paflyer said:
I see a lot of "how much per hour" quotes that are through the roof and then you find out they included a new panel into the opex.
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One time I ran some numbers when I was bored and I added things to the hourly reserve like budgeting for a new interior, new panel, AP, STC Turbo, Overhaul....it didn;t take long before I was in single engine turbo prop hourly rates.:D
 
saddletramp said:
Remember, that's 7 months of ownership. The 0-470 is a thirsty engine so over $3,000 of that is fuel alone. Our hangar rent is only $125 a month. I did prepay for a full years of insurance which was included in those numbers, so I still have five months of insurance left.

The other expense that was in there was the $800 I spent in reinstating my CFI. I bought a ton of new books & $600 for the check ride.

I also had the mode c certified & the pitot/static done. Both were out of date.

I also spent close to $500 on tools & supplies from Aircraft Spruce.

It all adds up fast.
Click to expand...

None of those things should be included in your ownership/operating costs. Those are frivolous purchases not required for owning. The Mode C cert and pitot/static, yes. Not a lawn tractor tug, nor your CFI, not tools, not books... Including them would equate to including your home mortgage as "crew quarters" or some such silly accounting practice. Direct expenses (purchase price, taxes, insurance, maintenance, fuel, inspections/certifications, etc) count. Buying a nice set of sockets and pliers, books, and a lawnmower do not. Sure, you spent that money, but it wasn't required to continue ownership and be able to fly it.
 
My wife doesn't ask so I see no reason to even discuss the cost of ownership. We are blessed with a good income that supports this expensive hobby. She enjoys getting to fly comfortably and quickly to some neat places.

We occasionally have friends that go with us places... The most common question is how much does the fuel cost and how much does it use? When I tell them the fuel cost they do the math and reply with something like, "Wow, so you can fly to the beach (2.5 hours) for only about $175! That's not bad at all." "Sure", I say.
 
bradg33 said:
My wife and I just bought a Twin Bonanza. She has more or less asked that I not share the actual costs with her. She understands it's not cheap, and that I won't go doing anything bank-breaking (like an engine) without a discussion with her, but I don't think she really wants to know (and neither do I) what "not cheap" means.
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Lol, yep. In my Excel logbook, I've also tracked receipts since my first flight. Over my 130 or so hours including my IR and various endorsements I've wracked up quite a bill. I recently told my wife what my lifetime flying total was and she got a little pale. Clearly, it was one of those "I didn't need to know that" moments...
 
labbadabba said:
Lol, yep. In my Excel logbook, I've also tracked receipts since my first flight. Over my 130 or so hours including my IR and various endorsements I've wracked up quite a bill. I recently told my wife what my lifetime flying total was and she got a little pale. Clearly, it was one of those "I didn't need to know that" moments...
Click to expand...

I was keeping a ledger of all the Twin Bo expenses. I quickly deleted the "total" column I'd initially created.
 
sounds like owning is 'SO CHEAP' that everyone agrees to delete or not track their total expenses.
 
You have to get used to a threshold of pain that comes with aircraft ownership. 4-figures shouldn't phase you as an airplane owner.

It is expensive. There are ways to make it cheaper, but it's still expensive. Ultimately you have to make the decision about what you want to do with your time and money. I am extremely glad I made the decision to become a pilot and aircraft owner. Even though there are times when it frustrates me, the experiences I've had completely outweigh the frustrations.
 
arkvet said:
My wife doesn't ask so I see no reason to even discuss the cost of ownership. We are blessed with a good income that supports this expensive hobby. She enjoys getting to fly comfortably and quickly to some neat places.

We occasionally have friends that go with us places... The most common question is how much does the fuel cost and how much does it use? When I tell them the fuel cost they do the math and reply with something like, "Wow, so you can fly to the beach (2.5 hours) for only about $175! That's not bad at all." "Sure", I say.
Click to expand...

It's true that non-aviators have no idea what it costs to operate an airplane. Recently a fellow employee as me to fly him to Idaho to get a new pickup he had purchased. He asked what it would cost me to fly my 182 to drop him off there. I told him around $400.00 & he hit the roof. He drove.

Before I get flamed...I did tell him I would cost share the expenses with him.

The fuel is only a small part of total ownership.
 
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