Airplane detailing

When I was flying back from Arizona I got some decent virga that rinsed the plane off pretty well. Unfortunately when it's rained here it's been IFR. No high ceilings + rain in the winter here, generally speaking.
 
arkvet said:
I've had my Saratoga for almost 2 years. Paint looks good but I've only done a simple wash a few times. You guys mentioning the porter cable polisher are making me want to order one. It could use a good shine and I'm all about doing it myself for the simple satisfaction.
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Just got my Porter Cable polisher in the mail today. I ordered the lambs wool pad to go with it but it looks like it takes a velcro type attachment to work??? The foam pad that came with it screwed directly to the polisher.

Also, I'm going to try to find some youtube videos that demonstrate technique on how to use it. If anyone has any suggestions feel free to share. I know it's not rocket science but if there are tips on technique I'd like to know them beforehand.
 
ifly4fun said:
Get them from Amazon and you could make $10.
https://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-7424XP-6-Inch-Variable-Speed-Polisher/dp/B002654I46
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This porter cable is a very good unit used by many pros. Its what I use. If the paint has not been buffed for a while you may want to start with Meguiars 105 ultra-cut compound to remove paint oxidation, then follow with Meguiars 205 Ultra Finishing Polish, and finally your favorite wax (I use Meguiars hi-tech yellow wax 26). You will be surprised how you can restore dull oxidated paint using the steps above. Now if you really want to go hog wild you can clay bar the whole airplane before you do any of the above.


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ircphoenix said:
Hey... That 2000 gets you the best possible miracle clear coat like snake oil substance known to man that will produce a brilliant shine, protect, and last forever.

I assume the guy who sold me that line of BS thinks forever is a year, since he said it had to be redone once a year, despite its magical properties.
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I know most people think this is insane...$2000 is a lot of cash. And in most cases I would say that is on the high side for sure. However it is NOT uncommon to pay $1000 for a good two - three step polish/wax/ceramic coating on a SUV/Car/Truck. This would include clay bar/nanoskin, iron decontamination, etc. He may have quoted $2000 for a ceramic coating (not a traditional wax). It is not snake oil...in fact if your plane is hangared your likely to get 2 years of solid protection with a ceramic coating. I use McKee's ceramic paint coating on my vehicles...it is awesome and the water sheeting is crazy. Application is quite easy, but it is more time consuming than a traditional wax (I'm a big fan of Collinite 845 and Menzerna Power Lock). It would be a lot of work applying it to an entire airplane (although well worth it in my mind).

I just polished my Cherokee yesterday (I only did the front half of the plane (cowl, wings - not the bottom of the wings though, front half of fuselage) using my DA polisher. I just used a spray detailer on the bottom of the wings. My point is...it's a truck load of work and I didn't even do my entire plane.

A quality detail by someone who knows what their doing can yield incredible results. Although it isn't planes, take a look at the Show N' Shine section on the AutoGeek forums...you'll see what a true detail is over there. Reality is most people have no idea what proper paint care is and then they wonder why their paint was shot in 10 years.

Realistically it isn't unreasonable to charge $1000+ for a full detail on an airplane. It is a lot of work despite what many people may think. I always get a kick out of people who take their car to some $25 car wash and complain to the poor service boy that they didn't do a good enough job on their Porsche/Mercedes/etc. (I don't take my vehicles to drive through car washes - with the exception of true "touchless" car washes if I am really in a pinch and being lazy).

Anyways..sorry for the long post but I am a book of knowledge when it comes to detailing and like to share my experience/knowledge when I can.

And by the way...for the love of God...a "spray on wax" is not meant to be the only application of wax on your airplane. Yes, spray on waxes actually do provide a purpose (a "boost" if you will") WHEN there is a coat of wax already on the airplane.

Another tip...next time your at the hangar visiting your plane take a plastic baggy with you. Place your hand in the plastic baggy and swipe your hand across the paint. Does it feel gritty/like sandpaper? If so your paint is "contaminated". It should be decontaminated using clay bar/Nanoskin mitt (this method takes way too long on an airplane so I recommend a Nanoskin mitt). Your paint should feel like pure glass after decontamination. Thankfully airplane paint is usually single stage (meaning no hard clear coat) - because of this airplane paint is usually quite easy to work with. You could revive old oxidized paint to practically brand new with a good DA/forced rotation polisher (Griots GG6, Flex 3401). It would require multiple steps and a lot of work, but it could be done.

I realize this isn't for everyone, not everyone is this meticulous and not everyone has the time or money to be this in depth. But honestly...take basic care of your paint and it should last you a long long time. I invested in my detailing equipment (I probably have $1000-$1500 in detailing tools,supplies, etc. I do my own work and it saves me the cash in the long run.
 
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Another post regarding polishers:

Dual Action Orbital Polishers: these have a free floating spindle bearing assembly - this means the spindle will stop rotating if you apply too much pressure (it is virtually impossible to "burn" through your paint) - very safe and easy to use and excellent results
1. Porter Cable 7424 - kind of the classic dual action polisher, relatively cheap, decent quality, a bit underpowerd
2. Griots GG6 - my recommendation for a DA. Good price, good power (enough to tackle just about any job), incredible warranty
3. Meguiar's G110v2 - also a good choice, I would take this over the Porter Cable, but I would still take the Griots due to power/warranty

Forced Rotation Dual Action Orbital Polisher: if I did this for a living, or did this a lot I would own one of these. Forced rotation - the spindle does NOT stop if you apply too much pressure - great for busting out a lot of work quickly, more aggressive jobs, etc
1. Flex 3401 - pure sweetness

Rotary Buffers: no one here should be using a rotary buffer on their paint. period. Serious power that is typically only used on seriously damaged paint, gel coat, etc - used by the "professionals" in worst case scenarios. Rotary buffers WILL instill swirls in the paint. The purpose of the rotary would be to remove quite a bit of paint (to get down to the same level of your defects, scratches, etc - to effectively remove them). You would then use a DA polisher to do your "finishing" polish to remove the swirls induced by the rotary buffer.
1. Flex PE14
2. Dewalt DWP
3. Makita 9227C

There really is too much information for me to dispell here without clogging up the thread, but if anyone has questions feel free to PM me (heck could even call me and talk over the phone). I can't stress enough that the AutoGeek forums are an awesome resource for detailing questions. I also highly recommend reading Mike Phillip's "The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine" - it is quite interesting, a fairly quick read, and a great resource. You will learn A LOT about proper paint care.
 
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Perezhr said:
This porter cable is a very good unit used by many pros. Its what I use. If the paint has not been buffed for a while you may want to start with Meguiars 105 ultra-cut compound to remove paint oxidation, then follow with Meguiars 205 Ultra Finishing Polish, and finally your favorite wax (I use Meguiars hi-tech yellow wax 26). You will be surprised how you can restore dull oxidated paint using the steps above. Now if you really want to go hog wild you can clay bar the whole airplane before you do any of the above.


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105 and 205 are great products. I use 205 myself sometimes. Clay bar would definitely be a PITA on an airplane - I recommend a Nanoskin mitt as you can use it when you wash the airplane - much quicker.
 
arkvet said:
Just got my Porter Cable polisher in the mail today. I ordered the lambs wool pad to go with it but it looks like it takes a velcro type attachment to work??? The foam pad that came with it screwed directly to the polisher.

Also, I'm going to try to find some youtube videos that demonstrate technique on how to use it. If anyone has any suggestions feel free to share. I know it's not rocket science but if there are tips on technique I'd like to know them beforehand.
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Idk what your using it on, but you do not need to be using a lambs wool pad. My recommendation is the Lake Country Flat or Thin Pro Pads (at least 6 orange, 6 white, and 2 red OR blue). For an airplane I would recommend at least 6 of each, but if you can't do that then do at least 3 of each - the exception is your wax pad - you can apply a coat of wax with one single pad. A foam pad's worst enemy is heat and being over-saturated with product. If you use one pad on the entire airplane your going to have crappy results. Ideally you would switch pads quite frequently (for my Cherokee I could easily use 8-10 orange or 8-10 white pads) - your pads will last much much longer and work more efficiently that way.
 
OK CC268,

In my Amazon cart I currently have 6 each of orange / white 6.5" pads and a red foam waxing pad. I also have some Collinite 845 in the cart. Would that be comparable to the Mequiars 205?

Trying to figure out what polish / wash / pad / etc. to use with each "phase" of this process. My paint is in really good condition and actually has some (dull) shine remaining. I would not classify any of my paint as having oxidation. It's been 100% hangar kept and if it sees sunshine it's because it's in the air. It honestly probably doesn't even need much attention but I like being proactive.
 
arkvet said:
OK CC268,

In my Amazon cart I currently have 6 each of orange / white 6.5" pads and a red foam waxing pad. I also have some Collinite 845 in the cart. Would that be comparable to the Mequiars 205?

Trying to figure out what polish / wash / pad / etc. to use with each "phase" of this process. My paint is in really good condition and actually has some (dull) shine remaining. I would not classify any of my paint as having oxidation. It's been 100% hangar kept and if it sees sunshine it's because it's in the air. It honestly probably doesn't even need much attention but I like being proactive.
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I recommend the Lake Country 5" backing plate with 5.5" Lake Country Flat or Thin Pro Pads (the Thin Pros are really nice, but more expensive - the flat pads are still great and easy to use). The 5.5" pads are easier to manage than the 6.5" pads, especially if you ever want to use this on your cars/trucks/etc and not just your airplane. Not a huge deal if you want to just stick with the 6.5" pads though, but if you can swing it (the backing plate isn't that expensive) I would really recommend going with the 5.5" pads.

Orange pads - the most aggressive pad you will have - used for polishing/compounding
White pads - the least aggressive pad you will have - used for polishing/compounding
Red pad - used for waxing ONLY

Always start with the most least aggressive combo and work your way up (white pad with Meguiar's M205 would be fine). Do a test spot where you have some scratches/defects on the paint. If that didn't do the trick move to orange and M205. If that doesn't work...well you need to go to a more aggressive polish/compound like M105. The yellow pad would be the most aggressive pad (I have never had to use a yellow pad with the exception of one car that had a horrible respray job on the hood).

The goal is to remove the least amount of paint possible to remove any defects/scratches.

You may find that you don't have any scratches/defects in your paint - in that case you don't need to polish at all. You can simply wax with your red pad.

Polishing you want to use a crosshatch pattern (watch a Youtube video or Google search). Work 2ft x 2ft or 3ft x 3ft sections at a time. Try not to get to impatient and start doing huge sections at a time - your effectiveness at removing scratches/defects will be much lower. Take a terry towel and cover the pad and turn on the polisher after doing a section or two to remove any excess polish (this will save your pads and keep them from getting saturated). Switch out pads after doing a section on the plane.

Waxing...turn the polisher on 1 or 2 and just spread the wax out, you don't need to do a cross hatch pattern or work a small section, just make sure you get everything covered. REMEMBER - thin is in! Do not apply a thick coat of wax, it will be a real pain to get off. You should use hardly any of that Collinite 845. Apply three dime size drops...that should be enough to do an entire topside of the wing. Remove the Collinite 845 after it has dried - use the finger swipe test - if the wax removes easily and is "chalky" then remove. If it still looks wet then give it more time to dry.

If you want to be real lazy and you feel like you need to polish, but don't want to both polish and wax, then use an All-In-One like HD Speed (this is an AWESOME product and quite cheap). This has both a polish and wax in it. This is great if you don't have the time to both polish and wax.

My recommendations for polishes/wax:

Wax: Collinite 845, Menzerna Powerlock, HD Poxy - there are a ton of great waxes out there - Collinite and Menzerna both have excellent durability

Polish: Meg's M205, HD Speed (All-In-One product), Menzerna SF-3500, HD Polish, - again, a million products out there

Compounds: Meg's M105, HD Cut, Menzerna FG400/PG1000 - tons of products out there

Let me know if you have any other questions.

TL; DR - white pad - least aggressive polish/compound pad, orange pad - most aggressive polish/compound pad, red - wax

Buy HD Speed, Meg's M205, Collinite 845. Buy M105 if you really feel like you need the extra cutting power provided by a compound.
 
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Geesh I feel like a simple "thanks" isn't enough... but THANKS! :)
 
arkvet said:
Geesh I feel like a simple "thanks" isn't enough... but THANKS! :)
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No worries - if you have any questions feel free to post or PM - I just polished (only certain sections) and waxed my Cherokee this weekeend - I will post some pics later! The results are pretty awesome. I used HD Speed (as my polish) and Collinite 845 as my wax.

By the way the blue pad in the 5.5" pads will be your wax pad - I don't think there is a red pad. Could be wrong though.
 
Watch Ammo NYC's videos on youtube. Lots of helpful tips. The "obsessed garage" group on facebook has a lot of knowledgeable people, too.
 
Here are the results on my own plane using HD Speed with orange pad and Collinite 845 on blue pad. I clay bar'd the top of the fuselage (I meant to Nanoskin the entire plane, but I had a Bonanza waiting for me to get out of the way at the wash bay).

No before shots - the plane was already in excellent shape, but the results near the passenger side door were spectacular - all previous scratches and marks were removed.

LED landing light getting installed this week ;p

IMG_0711.JPG IMG_0712.JPG IMG_0716.JPG
 
ircphoenix said:
Anyone have a good (decent quality, decent price) aircraft detailer in the greater southern California region?

I've been quoted anywhere from $500 to $2000 for wash and machine wax/buff on my little Cherokee.
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I cannot say enough good things about Red Carpet Aviation based out of KCRQ. Terrance, the owner, has given me incredible service on my Comanche for the last 5 years at what I feel is a value price. PM me for contact information if interested.
 
CC268, you need to make a detailing howto video. You might be the next PoA viral sensation!
 
I just spent some time with the DA drill attachment and HD Speed. Wow!

Battery life was a non-issue; I worked on the plane for about an hour, depleted one pack, and the other pack was still half full when it was time for me to leave. It was nice not having a cord and being able to get into tight spots.

HD Speed is basically like a magic eraser for airplanes. Stubborn discolorations (oil, etc) were scoured away pretty much instantly.

How do you know...
1. when it's time to put more product on the pad?
2. if there's too much product on the pad?
3. when it's time to swap pads?
 
CC268 said:
I recommend the Lake Country 5" backing plate with 5.5" Lake Country Flat or Thin Pro Pads (the Thin Pros are really nice, but more expensive - the flat pads are still great and easy to use). The 5.5" pads are easier to manage than the 6.5" pads, especially if you ever want to use this on your cars/trucks/etc and not just your airplane. Not a huge deal if you want to just stick with the 6.5" pads though, but if you can swing it (the backing plate isn't that expensive) I would really recommend going with the 5.5" pads.

Orange pads - the most aggressive pad you will have - used for polishing/compounding
White pads - the least aggressive pad you will have - used for polishing/compounding
Red pad - used for waxing ONLY

Always start with the most least aggressive combo and work your way up (white pad with Meguiar's M205 would be fine). Do a test spot where you have some scratches/defects on the paint. If that didn't do the trick move to orange and M205. If that doesn't work...well you need to go to a more aggressive polish/compound like M105. The yellow pad would be the most aggressive pad (I have never had to use a yellow pad with the exception of one car that had a horrible respray job on the hood).

The goal is to remove the least amount of paint possible to remove any defects/scratches.

You may find that you don't have any scratches/defects in your paint - in that case you don't need to polish at all. You can simply wax with your red pad.

Polishing you want to use a crosshatch pattern (watch a Youtube video or Google search). Work 2ft x 2ft or 3ft x 3ft sections at a time. Try not to get to impatient and start doing huge sections at a time - your effectiveness at removing scratches/defects will be much lower. Take a terry towel and cover the pad and turn on the polisher after doing a section or two to remove any excess polish (this will save your pads and keep them from getting saturated). Switch out pads after doing a section on the plane.

Waxing...turn the polisher on 1 or 2 and just spread the wax out, you don't need to do a cross hatch pattern or work a small section, just make sure you get everything covered. REMEMBER - thin is in! Do not apply a thick coat of wax, it will be a real pain to get off. You should use hardly any of that Collinite 845. Apply three dime size drops...that should be enough to do an entire topside of the wing. Remove the Collinite 845 after it has dried - use the finger swipe test - if the wax removes easily and is "chalky" then remove. If it still looks wet then give it more time to dry.

If you want to be real lazy and you feel like you need to polish, but don't want to both polish and wax, then use an All-In-One like HD Speed (this is an AWESOME product and quite cheap). This has both a polish and wax in it. This is great if you don't have the time to both polish and wax.

My recommendations for polishes/wax:

Wax: Collinite 845, Menzerna Powerlock, HD Poxy - there are a ton of great waxes out there - Collinite and Menzerna both have excellent durability

Polish: Meg's M205, HD Speed (All-In-One product), Menzerna SF-3500, HD Polish, - again, a million products out there

Compounds: Meg's M105, HD Cut, Menzerna FG400/PG1000 - tons of products out there

Let me know if you have any other questions.

TL; DR - white pad - least aggressive polish/compound pad, orange pad - most aggressive polish/compound pad, red - wax

Buy HD Speed, Meg's M205, Collinite 845. Buy M105 if you really feel like you need the extra cutting power provided by a compound.
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Thanks for the write up! My 140 is very dull, 1992 paint, oxidized.. I've tried several different compounds/techniques with little to poor results. I'm going to give this a run.
 
GeorgeC said:
CC268, you need to make a detailing howto video. You might be the next PoA viral sensation!
Click to expand...

HA! Good news is there are so many resources out there already

GeorgeC said:
I just spent some time with the DA drill attachment and HD Speed. Wow!

Battery life was a non-issue; I worked on the plane for about an hour, depleted one pack, and the other pack was still half full when it was time for me to leave. It was nice not having a cord and being able to get into tight spots.

HD Speed is basically like a magic eraser for airplanes. Stubborn discolorations (oil, etc) were scoured away pretty much instantly.

How do you know...
1. when it's time to put more product on the pad? you should apply polish to your pad after every section pass (after you are done working your 2'x2' or 3'x3' area). I always take a terry towel and turn the polisher on and get the extra product out before re-applying product. Apply product in three dime size drops toward the edges, or an 'X' across the pad.

Wax is different...3 dime size drops will go a long ways. You can always place the pad on the airplane window. If product shows up on the window you still have enough product to work with.

NOTE: when polishing I always "prime" the pad first if it hasn't been used yet. Simply place a circle of product on the pad so that the pad is completely covered with polish. From here on out when I reapply you can just do the 3 dime size drops or an 'X' pattern. Don't prime the pad for waxing...you'll be applying one thick coat of wax that will be a real PITA to remove.
2. if there's too much product on the pad? if the pad feels quite warm and is really saturated - using a terry towel really helps remove excess product after doing a section pass
3. when it's time to swap pads? I mean really the more you switch out the better...keeps the pads from building up heat and product. I would maybe do something like this on a smaller GA plane (one pad for cowl, 2-4 pads for top side of ONE wing, 2-4 pads for bottom side of ONE wing, 2-3 pads for fuselage, 2 pads for tail). Of course that doesn't mean you need that many pads total, just that you should be switching out fairly frequently. If you have paint in really bad shape and you are doing some serious compounding you may switch out pads even more frequently.
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ifly4fun said:
Thanks for the write up! My 140 is very dull, 1992 paint, oxidized.. I've tried several different compounds/techniques with little to poor results. I'm going to give this a run.
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What kind of polisher do you have?
What products have you used?
What pads have you used?

A photo of your paint could most likely tell me...but it could be possible that you could have a basecoat/clearcoat paint (all modern cars are painted this way). Clearcoat systems were introduced in the 1980s...prior to that cars were "single stage" - a primer and paint. No clear coat. Airplanes seem to be a bit different as my Cherokee was repainted in the late 2000s and it is single stage (primer, paint) - which I MUCH prefer.

Google clear coat failure. You've seen lots of cars on the road with clear coat failure. You can't fix this unfortunately. A new paint job is the only way to fix it.

The easiest way to tell if you have single stage or clear coat paint is to take a polisher to it. Does paint transfer to the pad? (When I polished parts of my Cherokee, my pads were dyed red from the paint - if you have a clear coat on your airplane then you won't see any paint transfer to the pad since you are removing clear clearcoat).

If you do indeed find that you have a basecoat/clearcoat paint then your kind of SOL - the "oxidation" is really clearcoat failure.

If you have single stage paint, then you really should be able to get some pretty awesome results. Single stage paint is really better in many ways, yes it oxidizes over time if not cared for and it isn't as durable as clear coat over a given period of time, but that oxidation is easily removed with some polishing and is much easier to work with and remove imperfections from. The only reason clear coats replaced single stage paints is because of EPA reasons (volatiles)...clear coats are much harder and do stand up longer to the environment, but this doesn't mean they look good longer though.
 
JOhnH said:
Man, watching how hard that whole crew had to work makes me look forward to paying someone an AMU or two to do it for me. :)
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It isn't for everyone and most people would prefer to pay someone and that is fine. I actually quite enjoy waxing my airplane (polishing not so much as it is definitely a lot of work). It provides a great opportunity to inspect every inch of your aircraft as well.
 
Another side note: It is very beneficial to have some dedicated polishing towels. I recommend the Gold Plush Jrs - it makes polish and wax removal so much easier. Microfibertech is an awesome website for getting cheap (but good quality) microfibers. I use the Kirkland Gold Microfibers (from Costco) for the dirtier jobs (cleaning interiors, etc), but prefer not to use them on the paint.
 
CC268 said:
It isn't for everyone and most people would prefer to pay someone and that is fine. I actually quite enjoy waxing my airplane (polishing not so much as it is definitely a lot of work). It provides a great opportunity to inspect every inch of your aircraft as well.
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I clean my plane's leading edges frequently, and I wash the plan regularly.
But waxing and polishing is a whole 'nuther story.
 
JOhnH said:
I clean my plane's leading edges frequently, and I wash the plan regularly.
But waxing and polishing is a whole 'nuther story.
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Yea good news is polishing should only need to be done once ideally...if you take care of the paint you should really only need to wax it...or spot polish areas needed. I wax my entire Cherokee (including bottom of the wings) in about 4 hours...Isn't too bad.
 
My plane looks like there's white base, some parts are painted red, other parts are matching vinyl, with clear over it. It's a mess. LoL
 
Spent some more time with the polisher today. Did some more areas with HD Speed and followed up one area with Collinite 845. I probably rushed it and/or did it wrong, but holy smokes! It's like your plane put on lip gloss just for you. Except lip gloss that, were you to lick it, would taste of petrochemicals. Sweet, sweet petrochemicals... Anyway. Good stuff!
 
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