Airlines keep making GA look like the right choice

[AdamZ]

This report says that Sprirt Airlines who started charging pax for carryons is now charging and extra fee if you don't pay you baggage fees far enough in advance.

http://money.msn.com/saving-money/article.aspx?post=3b15ed1c-fa58-41f9-8b20-e1a772a329c3&GT1=33026

Really? Are they that inexpenisve that they can get away with that. If not why in the heck would anyone fly them?

 

[rpadula]

My head asplode!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Oh, that's nothing.

American Airlines Now Charging Fees To Non-Passengers

 

[MSPAviator]

Airlines have to tack on these fees so their base ticket prices look competitive on Internet search sites.

I have a little bit of sympathy for the industry. It's the TSA I can't abide by.

I would absolutely love to fly GA instead of the airlines, unfortunately, they're still cheaper and faster than the 152 or 172N I have at my disposal.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I would absolutely love to fly GA instead of the airlines, unfortunately, they're still cheaper and faster than the 152 or 172N I have at my disposal.

Hmmm. MSP? Plenty of rental options in your area that are faster than a 172...

Also, it depends on how far you're going. California? Yeah, the airlines will beat you in every way but fun. Joplin, MO? You could probably drive almost as fast as the airlines would get you there, and you'd probably beat them even in the 172.

 

[gismo]

Oh, that's nothing.

American Airlines Now Charging Fees To Non-Passengers

Reminds me of the time when the US Post Office wanted to charge people using email. Oh wait, your story was actually a joke.

 

[Jim Logajan]

Hmmm. MSP? Plenty of rental options in your area that are faster than a 172...

Also, it depends on how far you're going. California? Yeah, the airlines will beat you in every way but fun. Joplin, MO? You could probably drive almost as fast as the airlines would get you there, and you'd probably beat them even in the 172.

Indeed. If I need to fly from EUG (Eugene, OR) to SJC (San Jose, CA) all the flights require 1 stop and take no less than 4:40. A quick check on Expedia shows a price of ~$430/person for a flight two weeks from now, round trip.

If I were to rent a C-172, wet, for $115/hr at 77S (Creswell, OR; actually closer than EUG to my home) I could make the flight in ~3:45. Tack on :30 for the usual stuff, and the same trip costs about $490/person tomorrow, one way.

So for my wife and I, a trip to SJC in two weeks:

• By airline takes ~4:40 each way, not including time needed to pass through security, and costs ~$860.
• By rental plane takes ~4:30 each way, including pre-flight, fueling, and paperwork, and costs ~$980.

But if we had to fly there tomorrow, while the rental plane costs wouldn't change, the airline charges more; the same flight would cost us ~$1220.

Add in the hassle of having to fit the trip around the airline's flight schedule, rather than scheduling the trip around our schedule, and sometimes it really is cost effective and all-around better to fly private airplanes. One of the dubious advantage of living in a smaller metro area. (I didn't even include the fact that the 172 can be rented for $105/hr if enough hours are used.)

 

[Diana]

Also, it depends on how far you're going. California? Yeah, the airlines will beat you in every way but fun. Joplin, MO? You could probably drive almost as fast as the airlines would get you there, and you'd probably beat them even in the 172.

I just flew from Joplin, MO (JLN) to DFW on AA last week. I found a reasonable rate that was cheaper than flying to Dallas in my Citabria. If there were two of us going, it would be cheaper to fly the Citabria.

 

[ron22]

Time wise I think GA will beat the Airlines most of the time.
But price not if you are renting. There are som echeap flights out there right now. I just bought a one way ticket for my wife from MSP to STL for $64. Even in club plane how far will you get for $64?
Now the fun factor what would you rather do

 

[wsuffa]

Ryanair is still trying to figure out how to charge for using the lav. They want to charge you coming and going....

 

[wsuffa]

This report says that Sprirt Airlines who started charging pax for carryons is now charging and extra fee if you don't pay you baggage fees far enough in advance.

http://money.msn.com/saving-money/article.aspx?post=3b15ed1c-fa58-41f9-8b20-e1a772a329c3&GT1=33026

Really? Are they that inexpenisve that they can get away with that. If not why in the heck would anyone fly them?

They're not the first to charge more if you don't pay in advance. The majors made $billions in fees last year, and are getting close to the same CASM as Southwest and JetBlue.

 

[Steve Foley]

Cheap Flights:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPyl2tOaKxM

 

[fgcason]

When are they going to catch on that they can make even more money by charging a fee for charging fees?

 

[Steve Foley]

When are they going to catch on that they can make even more money by charging a fee for charging fees?

See above posted video - fee for paying by credit card when credit card is only accepted method of payment.

 

[wsuffa]

When are they going to catch on that they can make even more money by charging a fee for charging fees?

Like the ones that already charge a fee for using a credit card?

 

[MSPAviator]

Hmmm. MSP? Plenty of rental options in your area that are faster than a 172...

Yep, the faster planes cost more too, and I'm not checked out in them. And since I rent, I'm stuck to a somewhat restrictive schedule. If I owned, it would be alot simpler...

Last time I considered using GA to travel was about three weeks ago, MSP to DLH and back in a day. I ended up driving because it wasn't VFR.

 

[Palmpilot]

For April Fool's Day, I wonder if The Onion is going to post a serious story?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Cheap Flights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPyl2tOaKxM

Man, I'm easily distracted. I watched "Cheap Flights" again (I'd seen it once before, good stuff) and after clicking some "related" stuff, I'm still listening to some Nancy Sinatra and some Johnny and June Carter Cash. Good stuff.

Yep, the faster planes cost more too,

Per hour, yes - But you can generally take a step up without raising your cost per mile. The 130-140 knot airplanes are often the best deal when it comes to renting to go places (often costing the same or less than a 172 when the extra speed is factored in), and they'll get you there with reasonable swiftness.

and I'm not checked out in them.

Well, get crackin'!

And since I rent, I'm stuck to a somewhat restrictive schedule. If I owned, it would be alot simpler...

You might find it a bit less restrictive on the faster airplanes too, as most of them aren't used for primary training.

Better yet, join a club. Many of the good sides of owning, for a much lower cost.

 

[Ghery]

And Spirit charges for carry-ons, as well as checked bags. No way will I ever ride them.

Wednesday night AA was living up to "Time to spare, go by air". Plane for my leg to SEA out of DFW was a little late, so boarding was delayed by about 10 minutes. Somehow that translated to 35 minutes late getting into SEA. OK, only 35 minutes. But we were scheduled to arrive at 11:55 PM. I finally got home just after 2 AM. Not much sleep a couple nights ago. But, would GA have been an option? No. Company travel, and GA (except for our shuttles) is not allowed. Just made my reservations for a meeting in Paris in May. GA not exactly an option for that, either.

 

[denverpilot]

Per hour, yes - But you can generally take a step up without raising your cost per mile. The 130-140 knot airplanes are often the best deal when it comes to renting to go places (often costing the same or less than a 172 when the extra speed is factored in), and they'll get you there with reasonable swiftness.

My problem is, sometimes I want to "go somewhere" (fast) and sometimes I just want to "go up". The additional per-hour cost to remain proficient in the "go somewhere" aircraft in the local pattern isn't worth it.

Thus, my main reason for owning 1/3 of the LLC that owns the ultimate "compromise" airplane. The C-182. Carries stuff, but you wish it'd carry just a tiny bit more. Goes fast-enough, but you wish it'd get you there an hour sooner. Can hang at the local airport in the pattern with the Skyhawks and Goboshes but it's a little harder on the big engine. Lands short enough (okay ours with the Robbie kit on it kinda excels at this particular item, but let's say it does not have it) to hang out at the smaller fields. Can carry a stack o' radios and hang out in the IFR system while only being a minor nuisance to the controllers. Burns more fuel than you'd like but not so much it'll put you in the poorhouse in a single flight. Can handle "light" backcountry duty if you don't mind the repairs to prop, nosegear, and such as an added expense. Etc. The list goes on...

Perhaps someday the LLC will have a few more owners and a "go fast" airplane. But I'm content with it not getting a lot bigger and the additional "club" hassles too. Can go either way on that one.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

My problem is, sometimes I want to "go somewhere" (fast) and sometimes I just want to "go up". The additional per-hour cost to remain proficient in the "go somewhere" aircraft in the local pattern isn't worth it.

Ah, but the poster I was replying to is a renter, and thus can choose the plane for the mission every time. I'm in a club, so I can use the 182 or the DA40 to go places, or an Archer to "just go up". (Of course, I generally fly the 182 or DA40 anyway 'cuz I like 'em so much! My last flight in the Archer was in August. My last flight in it before that was nearly a year before, when I picked it up from the annual and began the break-in process on the new cylinders. (Being an AvGeek and doing the research on how to do things like that the right way does pay off.)

Thus, my main reason for owning 1/3 of the LLC that owns the ultimate "compromise" airplane. The C-182.

I dunno, I'm just not feeling the 182 love from you on this post...

Carries stuff, but you wish it'd carry just a tiny bit more.

You do? I think I've loaded it to gross ONCE. Four adults, bags for the weekend, four hours of fuel. I think I'd have to put a Steinway in there to load it over gross.

Goes fast-enough, but you wish it'd get you there an hour sooner.

Hmm. Last time I went anywhere over an hour away in the 182 was when we went down to KUMP to take our first look at N569DS, the DA40 we purchased. Filed KMSN KELSI KUMP. Cleared via radar vectors, RFD, V9, SMARS, direct. Chicago Center gave us direct somewhere in the neighborhood of SHOOF. So, 260nm, call it 2 hours (it was 2.4 including ground time, but the .4 is going to be there in any airplane). That means that to get there an hour sooner, I'd have to be going twice as fast - 260 knots! That's King Air territory... Or even a jet, once you consider the extra time spent climbing so you can go fast. And then I'd be spending too much money and not enjoying it. So hah... I'll keep the 182.

Can hang at the local airport in the pattern with the Skyhawks and Goboshes but it's a little harder on the big engine.

Meh - Our last engine went 951 hours past TBO. Can't complain.

Lands short enough (okay ours with the Robbie kit on it kinda excels at this particular item, but let's say it does not have it) to hang out at the smaller fields.

I've had our 182 in and out of a 1,092-foot grass strip. And no, we don't have R/STOL or anything else to "help" - Just a stock 182. Can't complain.

Can handle "light" backcountry duty if you don't mind the repairs to prop, nosegear, and such as an added expense.

Not exactly Mile Hi, but...

(You probably recognize that last one.)

That ol' 182, she does alright. No problems with the nose gear. I think the prop was worn past limits before I even left on the trip - Did everything I could to be nice to it anyway, but it had over 2300 hours on it already. But extra wear and tear in the backcountry is not unique to the 182.

Perhaps someday the LLC will have a few more owners and a "go fast" airplane. But I'm content with it not getting a lot bigger and the additional "club" hassles too. Can go either way on that one.

Meh - The 182 is a "fast enough" airplane. It's not the best at anything, but it is pretty damn good at everything.

Now for your penance, you must visit the airport tonight, take your bird around the pattern a few times, and kiss her on the cowl and tell her you love her when you land.

(For those who are wondering about the pics above: Johnson Creek, ID; Gravelly Valley, CA; Pearce Ferry, AZ; and Leadville, CO.)

 

[denverpilot]

Ah, but the poster I was replying to is a renter, and thus can choose the plane for the mission every time.

About the only benefit to renting. :wink2:

I dunno, I'm just not feeling the 182 love from you on this post...

Oh my, I was going for the opposite effect.

You do? I think I've loaded it to gross ONCE. Four adults, bags for the weekend, four hours of fuel. I think I'd have to put a Steinway in there to load it over gross.

Well, maybe we overpacked a bit for OSH... We were at 2950 on the dot departing Denver on a 8800' DA day.

Hmm. Last time I went anywhere over an hour away in the 182 was when we went down to KUMP to take our first look at N569DS, the DA40 we purchased.
...

That means that to get there an hour sooner, I'd have to be going twice as fast - 260 knots! That's King Air territory...

The "hour" was more related to three-hour to four-hour hops. Everything's an hour away from DEN.

We're an island in the middle of nowhere. Good thing we have the long-range tanks.

Colorado Springs is closer than an hour, Cheyenne after you wander around the DEN Bravo is about an hour or so, and the "Metro area" airports... then you're going two or more hours to get to anything.

To go anywhere "interesting" for a day, is going to be a three hour or more flight.

I do envy you midwesterners for having places to fly to, sometimes. You get to cover whole States in less time than it takes to cover half of mine.

But then again, I'd have to put up with all those PEOPLE! Nevermind!

Santa Fe, NM is good, but that's a "while" away.

Laramie, WY... well, not much going on there, but at least it's far enough away people will be surprised you went there on a weekend for no reason at all.

Sydney, NE for Cabela's.

Goodland, KS for... oh yeah, nothing. LOL.

Maybe Alamosa or Durango need to go on my list of places to go fly soon.

That or a looooong flight across to the other side of Kansas to go see Adam Fast or meet in the middle in Wichita...

Meh - Our last engine went 951 hours past TBO. Can't complain.

We're hoping for similar and actively trying to "Make it so".

Without a JPI...

Your experience gives us plenty of hope.

I've had our 182 in and out of a 1,092-foot grass strip down near sea level. And no, we don't have R/STOL or anything else to "help" - Just a stock 182. Can't complain.

Fixed that for ya.

Meh - The 182 is a "fast enough" airplane. It's not the best at anything, but it is pretty damn good at everything.

That's what I was going for! Cheers!

Now for your penance, you must visit the airport tonight, take your bird around the pattern a few times, and kiss her on the cowl and tell her you love her when you land.

Well, does visiting the shop over lunch to look her over with all the inspections ports off, the seats out, and the cowl off, count? That's about all I can do at the moment, and I already did that. She's in for Annual.

Had a nice chat with our A&P/IA 'bout stuff learned at the Cessna Pilot's Assn. "Legacy" C-182 Systems and Procedures class a couple weekends ago. He agreed with like 95% of it, and had good reasons not to agree with two items, that would only apply to Colorado anyway, since we're so darn dry up here...

Got to see the mess o' bellcranks and interconnects that make the ailerons droop with the flaps with the Robbie kit. No wonder the ailerons are stiff. (And no wonder the poor venerable ARC 200 wing-leveler can't deal with it. LOL!)

It was my first real conversation with him since buying into the aircraft, and I like his style. Very good-natured guy, but ask a question and he had a definite answer. Like that.

He invited me back over (if I can break away from work mid-next-week) to go over anything he finds while the inspection ports are still off.

And here I was whining I couldn't find a mechanic who'd let pilots look and poke and prod.

(Also had an "ah-ha" moment with Greg Kainz in PM earlier that we're using the same shop. That's good to know too!)

(For those who are wondering about the pics above: Johnson Creek, ID; Gravelly Valley, CA; Pearce Ferry, AZ; and Leadville, CO.)

You are making me want to go up to Idaho soooooo bad... stop that!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Well, maybe we overpacked a bit for OSH... We were at 2950 on the dot departing Denver on a 8800' DA day.

Yeah, well, when you have to take not only "stuff" for a week but your accommodations as well... Wait a minute, you didn't even camp! You overpacked.

I do envy you midwesterners for having places to fly to, sometimes. You get to cover whole States in less time than it takes to cover half of mine.

But then again, I'd have to put up with all those PEOPLE! Nevermind!

Meh - You're in a CITY. The Denver metro area has nearly half the population of my STATE. So, there are plenty of places to be in the midwest where you're away from people. It's not like we all live in Chicago.

Fixed that for ya.

Well, your runways tend to be longer than ours to compensate for the altitude. How many sub-1500 foot strips are there in CO?

Well, does visiting the shop over lunch to look her over with all the inspections ports off, the seats out, and the cowl off, count?

Again?

That's about all I can do at the moment, and I already did that. She's in for Annual.

Phew! At least that was to be expected.

You are making me want to go up to Idaho soooooo bad... stop that!

Not until you do it. Then you can take over the make-everyone-drool-over-cool-backcountry-flying duties.

 

[flyersfan31]

I have avoided commercial for the last 3yrs. It's nice having a 175kt plane. I'm headed to FL in 2 wks, and I'm looking forward to 5.5hrs of logbook time, a fuel stop in friendly NC, and no TSA groping my junk. Plus a rental car pulled up to my door.

Flew the family back from spring break in AZ. Stopped in Carlsbad, NM to see the caverns, Texarkana for lunch and a photo op, Memphis for Graceland and the Gibson factory, Winston-Salem to visit my niece, then home. Great trip. No TSA. What could be better?????

If it were up to me, I'd never fly domestic commercial again. Mrs Flyersfan is not as enthralled with 2 day west-bound cross countries as I am, so I imagine I'll have to suck it up and deal with the aluminum death tube and TSA hand jobs at some point.

 

[AdamZ]

Thus, my main reason for owning 1/3 of the LLC that owns the ultimate "compromise" airplane. The C-182.

Oh but what an awesome job it does at that compromise!

 

[denverpilot]

It's nice having a 175kt plane.

I haven't spotted it in the forums - what do you fly? Just curious.

(If you have a photo in your sig I'm not seeing it because I've been playing with the iPad app that reads the forum. Kinda neat, but you lose people's sigs.)