Airline hiring

mjgeorge99

mjgeorge99

Filing Flight Plan
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Apr 8, 2022
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Firebird
How is the hiring going on for some of the people working 121 carriers?

No word back from apps for months, probably a good dozen apps. I have some 135 PIC experience (Piston only) and about 1300 hours (1000hr RATP eligible from ERAU, meet all flight experience). My co-worker from Delta said it has slowed big time and Jet Blue co-workers said hiring is halted. Most of my friend have gotten hired but pretty quiet from my end. Thankfully I do have a comfortable CFI and charter job where I work.
 
I have a few friends that have just crossed the threshold and have started getting rejection letters. Looks like direct hire captains are needed but I think the FO lines are pretty long right now.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I have a few friends that have just crossed the threshold and have started getting rejection letters. Looks like direct hire captains are needed but I think the FO lines are pretty long right now.
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Ok, I haven’t even gotten rejection letters just the “we will consider your application and contact you if we have interest, etc..”

Industry goes through ups and downs though, took me a good year to find my first CFI job from COVID
 
mjgeorge99 said:
Ok, I haven’t even gotten rejection letters just the “we will consider your application and contact you if we have interest, etc..”

Industry goes through ups and downs though, took me a good year to find my first CFI job from COVID
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Specifically, it looks like Envoy is tapping the brakes.
Wheels up still seems to be scooping up first officers.

In these parts, Envoy looks like the best first gig if you can get it.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I have a few friends that have just crossed the threshold and have started getting rejection letters. Looks like direct hire captains are needed but I think the FO lines are pretty long right now.
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this sounds a little far fetched
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I have a few friends that have just crossed the threshold and have started getting rejection letters. Looks like direct hire captains are needed but I think the FO lines are pretty long right now.
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Yes, that is what I've heard as well from a few folks who in the last few months started applying in earnest. Phones are silent. Word is they have all the FO's they need, although as mentioned they need captains.
 
eman1200 said:
this sounds a little far fetched
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Tis true.
The pilot helping me get multi time came out of retirement to snag a direct hire bonus at Envoy. They are paying $100k bonus for direct hire captains.
I have seen 2 rejection letters from Envoy this week. Both said. Thanks, try again in 30 days. These are pilots that are at ATP mins. (older guys like me)

One has an interview with wheels up next week.
I have another friend that just finished indoc at wheels up. They paid for his type rating and ATP.
The money is not as good and the schedule is 8 on 6 off but he went from flying a Centurion to a CRJ so he is getting turbine time.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Tis true.
The pilot helping me get multi time came out of retirement to snag a direct hire bonus at Envoy. They are paying $100k bonus for direct hire captains.
I have seen 2 rejection letters from Envoy this week. Both said. Thanks, try again in 30 days. These are pilots that are at ATP mins. (older guys like me)

One has an interview with wheels up next week.
I have another friend that just finished indoc at wheels up. They paid for his type rating and ATP.
The money is not as good and the schedule is 8 on 6 off but he went from flying a Centurion to a CRJ so he is getting turbine time.
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I just meant far fetched that you have a few friends.


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It's true. You can have 6000+ hours and get turned down for FO jobs right now.
 
You can move up the seniority scale as an FO and fly a line that works with your life, or you can move over to captain and sit reserve in Newark on random days. Apparently, the pay bump is such that a large number of FO’s would rather stay FO’s and better control their schedules. My son, for instance, is an FO on a 787 instead of a captain on an A320.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
You can move up the seniority scale as an FO and fly a line that works with your life, or you can move over to captain and sit reserve in Newark on random days. Apparently, the pay bump is such that a large number of FO’s would rather stay FO’s and better control their schedules. My son, for instance, is an FO on a 787 instead of a captain on an A320.
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That’s awesome but your son’s situation has nothing to do with what’s cooking at the regionals.

The airline industry management is reaping what they have sown by having regionals fly a significant portion of their domestic rout structure. It’s a problem over twenty years in the making.

They wanted to save labor costs by not having the small jet service at mainline anymore and now they are dealing with the problems they created.

****em
 
If you get hired by United and have 1000 hours of 121 time, you can bid for a captain slot during basic indoc. You'll have to fly as an f/o for a certain amount of time but chances are you'll be in the left seat making $300k plus within a year. You'll be on reserve with a not great schedule, but if you're local it might not be a bad gig.
 
Groundpounder said:
If you get hired by United and have 1000 hours of 121 time, you can bid for a captain slot during basic indoc. You'll have to fly as an f/o for a certain amount of time but chances are you'll be in the left seat making $300k plus within a year. You'll be on reserve with a not great schedule, but if you're local it might not be a bad gig.
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Yeah being a captain at United MIGHT be an okish job.

Sheesh
 
The major airlines are still hiring and plan to continue hiring at near record numbers. Delta has stated they will slow to about 100 a month at some point in the Spring. People are acting like it’s the end of the world but other than the last 2 years replacing the covid early retirements it’s still record numbers. The regionals have a shortage of CA’s so there is little point in hiring FO’s until they catch up the CA’s.
The one thing many young pilots fail to understand is especially at the major airline level flight hours are only one part of who gets hired. The rest of a resume is possible more important. Things like how many check ride failures, time to ratings, job history, leadership positions held, education level and performance in school are all very important. Some of those items dropped by the wayside during the insane hiring of the last two years and airlines have been paying the price. The hiring is shifting back to historical norms where you need a solid overall resume!
 
Larry in TN said:
Yes. Common for military pilots, but some corporate with good experience but no 121 time.
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.mil and corporate both generate TPIC time. Let’s talk about the majority of the career switchers though. Forties to mid-fifties, 1000-1500 hrs in single engine piston and 50hrs in a piston twin. Maybe a smattering of CFI work or some entry-level commercial work doing aerial survey or similar in a piston single.

Are those the candidates (non-turnine PIC time) Delta, United, and American hiring off the street as FOs?

Anecdotally, one of my closest friends has a few thousand hours in the B-52, B-52 WIC IP, retired in 2019, went to XOJet in the Challenger 350, for a year and a half, then corporate as a CA in a Falcon 7x for the last 2.5yrs. Clean as clean can be. He’s been applying to the big 3 since 2019, with nothing but TBNT letters.

Conversely, another close buddy,, non-flying .mil guy. Retired in 2015, CFI’d for a year and half, moved to King Airs as an FO, then CA until 2021. Spent 8 months on property at Republic then picked up as an FO at United.

Sample size of two, but it is what it is…both accomplished with TPIC. GA piston experience alone likely isn’t going to get a career-switcher on the hiring list at one of the big 3 as their first paying gig.

So, that means regionals, and while has significantly improved, if they aren’t hiring FOs, that’s likely a significant block to the career-switching GA piston guy.
 
TCABM said:
.mil and corporate both generate TPIC time. Let’s talk about the majority of the career switchers though. Forties to mid-fifties, 1000-1500 hrs in single engine piston and 50hrs in a piston twin. Maybe a smattering of CFI work or some entry-level commercial work doing aerial survey or similar in a piston single.

Are those the candidates (non-turnine PIC time) Delta, United, and American hiring off the street as FOs?

Anecdotally, one of my closest friends has a few thousand hours in the B-52, B-52 WIC IP, retired in 2019, went to XOJet in the Challenger 350, for a year and a half, then corporate as a CA in a Falcon 7x for the last 2.5yrs. Clean as clean can be. He’s been applying to the big 3 since 2019, with nothing but TBNT letters.

Conversely, another close buddy,, non-flying .mil guy. Retired in 2015, CFI’d for a year and half, moved to King Airs as an FO, then CA until 2021. Spent 8 months on property at Republic then picked up as an FO at United.

Sample size of two, but it is what it is…both accomplished with TPIC. GA piston experience alone likely isn’t going to get a career-switcher on the hiring list at one of the big 3 as their first paying gig.

So, that means regionals, and while has significantly improved, if they aren’t hiring FOs, that’s likely a significant block to the career-switching GA piston guy.
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It's called "HR". When you get it figured out, let the rest of us know. ;)
 
Doc Holliday said:
It's called "HR". When you get it figured out, let the rest of us know. ;)
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Funny. I’m in the HR space in my day job, at the strategy level to attract, develop, and retain talent. If you can’t get face time, you can’t get past HR screening to prove or disprove whether or not you’re the ‘whole person’ a company is looking for, then it’s not an HR problem. Their job is to forward all qualified applicants for business review and selection.

I’m also not the guy stating airlines will hire any objectively qualified individual into either seat.
 
TCABM said:
.mil and corporate both generate TPIC time. Let’s talk about the majority of the career switchers though. Forties to mid-fifties, 1000-1500 hrs in single engine piston and 50hrs in a piston twin. Maybe a smattering of CFI work or some entry-level commercial work doing aerial survey or similar in a piston single.

Are those the candidates (non-turnine PIC time) Delta, United, and American hiring off the street as FOs?

Anecdotally, one of my closest friends has a few thousand hours in the B-52, B-52 WIC IP, retired in 2019, went to XOJet in the Challenger 350, for a year and a half, then corporate as a CA in a Falcon 7x for the last 2.5yrs. Clean as clean can be. He’s been applying to the big 3 since 2019, with nothing but TBNT letters.

Conversely, another close buddy,, non-flying .mil guy. Retired in 2015, CFI’d for a year and half, moved to King Airs as an FO, then CA until 2021. Spent 8 months on property at Republic then picked up as an FO at United.

Sample size of two, but it is what it is…both accomplished with TPIC. GA piston experience alone likely isn’t going to get a career-switcher on the hiring list at one of the big 3 as their first paying gig.

So, that means regionals, and while has significantly improved, if they aren’t hiring FOs, that’s likely a significant block to the career-switching GA piston guy.
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Has your B-52 friend hired a prep company to help him polish up his resume and help him prepare for an interview?
 
Groundpounder said:
Has your B-52 friend hired a prep company to help him polish up his resume and help him prepare for an interview?
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My understanding is that he has; whether he’s executed on that advice is unverifiable. Your comment indicates that, even at the application stage, meeting objective criteria isn’t good enough though. There’s at least some subjectivity or bias involved during initial intake.

I recognize the limits of an incredibly small set of anecdotal and, like everything, every experience is a YMMV experience. I’ve done the fly on someone else’s schedule at the whims of your medical being valid enough to know the 121 game isn’t my game, so I only follow this topic peripherally.
 
There is something your B52 friend is missing. Everyone I know with a resume like that gets called by all of the big 4. Usually within weeks of application submission.
 
Jeff767 said:
There is something your B52 friend is missing. Everyone I know with a resume like that gets called by all of the big 4. Usually within weeks of application submission.
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I don't know. I've had multiple people, including former students who are current captains tell me that I'd get snapped up, and nothing's happening. I'm not the only one I know, either.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I think the current rate of hiring has confused some people. The big three are still picky. There is no pilot shortage for mainline. They all reject applicants on a daily basis and still get to pick who gets hired.

The contents of the resume alone will not open the door.
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which is why I put my picture* on all my resumes


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*interesting, but AI get's offended when I ask it to draw an ugly face. if anyone should be offended, it's me and my ugly face.
 
RyanShort1 said:
I don't know. I've had multiple people, including former students who are current captains tell me that I'd get snapped up, and nothing's happening. I'm not the only one I know, either.
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Can you give us a summary of your resume?
 
TCABM said:
My understanding is that he has; whether he’s executed on that advice is unverifiable. Your comment indicates that, even at the application stage, meeting objective criteria isn’t good enough though. There’s at least some subjectivity or bias involved during initial intake.

I recognize the limits of an incredibly small set of anecdotal and, like everything, every experience is a YMMV experience. I’ve done the fly on someone else’s schedule at the whims of your medical being valid enough to know the 121 game isn’t my game, so I only follow this topic peripherally.
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Does he have any internal letters of recommendation? Also, he should attend a job fair and a chief pilot meet and greet. Next job fair is NGPA this Thursday and Friday in PSP.
 
Groundpounder said:
Does he have any internal letters of recommendation? Also, he should attend a job fair and a chief pilot meet and greet. Next job fair is NGPA this Thursday and Friday in PSP.
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Yeah, I’m not his personal career coach, just passing on the anecdote. But the responses indicate the hiring process is a bit more competitive and nuanced than some believe it to be.
 
Jeff767 said:
Can you give us a summary of your resume?
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6500TT
Over 3000 complex
1100 Tailwheel
2400 Dual given
1 checkride fail - was CFI initial.
28 multi
10 years managing my aerial photography crew - 8 of which here in DFW, with crew operations and lots of ATC experience.

I'm hearing that it may be that I need to get to 50 multi to even be looked at. I'm working on that.
 
RyanShort1 said:
6500TT
Over 3000 complex
1100 Tailwheel
2400 Dual given
1 checkride fail - was CFI initial.
28 multi
10 years managing my aerial photography crew - 8 of which here in DFW, with crew operations and lots of ATC experience.

I'm hearing that it may be that I need to get to 50 multi to even be looked at. I'm working on that.
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You are applying to regionals I assume?
No one cares about complex or tailwheel time, don't highlight that on a resume.
How much night and actual IMC time?
Are you a CFI-I or MEI?
 
Sometimes it's not HR. Sometimes it's the AI that filters candidates prior to getting to the door.
 
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