Aircraft rental question

[jrs0015]

Hello all

I'm new to the forum and am very new to the topic of aviation in general, but I'm becoming very interested. I love to travel and I want to learn to fly.

I was just wondering if anyone knew...is there such thing as a place that rents aircraft that can be dropped at a different location OR is there such thing as a place/person that only charges you for time in the air (ie you flew to somewhere, stayed for a couple of days, then flew back but only got charged for the time in the air)?

 

[Jaybird180]

Answer to first question is....gotta wait awhile until someone on this board answers in the affirmative

Answer to second question is.....if the rental agreement is to charge by tach time, if the tach time is measured by squat switch, then yes.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I was just wondering if anyone knew...is there such thing as a place that rents aircraft that can be dropped at a different location OR is there such thing as a place/person that only charges you for time in the air (ie you flew to somewhere, stayed for a couple of days, then flew back but only got charged for the time in the air)?

WRT rentals, you are only charged for the time the engine is running (although some aircraft hour meters are wired to the master switch, so the time starts ticking as soon as you turn the electricity on). If you go on a x-country, you would typically only be charged for the actual operating time vice a daily rental rate like a car, however there are some exceptions - alot of rental places have a x-country minimum that can vary from 1 hr to 5 hrs....in other words if you check out the plane for a weekend trip (or longer) you need to put as many hours on it as days you rent it for or you are going to have to pay extra. Best to find out what the minimum is before you check the plane out.

As far as one-way rentals, I am not aware of any place that does that. It would most likely have to be a special circumstance and you are likely going to have to pay the cost of returning the aircraft to its home airport.

 

[Fearless Tower]

if the tach time is measured by squat switch, then yes.

Good luck finding one of those.

 

[Matthew]

All the FBO's I've rented from charge by Hobbs (for the OP, the Hobbs meter typically starts running when the engine starts). In the case of overnight or multi-day rentals, there is usually a minimum hourly charge per day - 3 hrs seems common.

I've never heard of a place that lets you do one-way rentals, unless maybe the FBO owner owns multiple FBOs and is going to re-locate a plane anyway.

 

[Fearless Tower]

the Hobbs meter typically starts running when the engine starts).

Not necessarily - see my post above - there are two ways to install the meter - one system works off a pressure sensing switch that will start the timer as soon as there is oil pressure. The other method is to wire it electrically which means if that it is counting as soon as you turn on the master switch. In other words, if you have one of those, you are paying for your preflight time while you walk around and check the lights, stall horn...etc. And when you shut down, if you don't turn off the master right away, you are paying for it.

Best to know which type is installed.

 

[MSPAviator]

I've never heard of a place that lets you do one-way rentals, unless maybe the FBO owner owns multiple FBOs and is going to re-locate a plane anyway.

Maybe if the plane was going to be repositioned somewhere else anyway....but that is probably a pretty rare situation and one that would have to be negotiated with individually.

Renting a plane from an FBO is not quite the same as renting a car from a national company like Hertz/Avis.

 

[gprellwitz]

Okay, as a newbie to aviation, you may not know the difference between tach time and Hobbes time, or know what a squat switch is, etc. So, to give you simple answers:
1) No, there are no "1 way" rentals.
2) You are only paying for the time you are flying the plane.

As an example, I take a rented single engine plane from Chicago to the Bahamas. I stay there a week, and then return. It takes 10 hours to fly each way. I am paying for 20 hours of rental time, even though I had the plane a week.

As you gather from the above responses, there are some technicalities and nuances, as well as variability between FBOs (where you rent planes), but that's the basics.

 

[AggieMike88]

Best to know which type is installed.

That's very true. The Warrior I currently rent has the latter (when the master is on). So first thing on my preflight is to turn it on, listen for the various electrical gyros to begin spinning, quick check of the interior lights, exit the aircraft, and then quickly walk around to verify all lights, press manipulate the stall sensor and listen for the horn, then reach through the small window to switch off. Then it's back to the rh wing root to conduct the physical walk-around.

WRT the OP's original question, my FBO doesn't charge a minimum for overnight activity.

Each FBO and club operates under their own rules/designs. If you are interested in renting or joining, just ask for a copy of the rules. Your question should be answered there.

 

[Matthew]

Not necessarily - see my post above - there are two ways to install the meter - one system works off a pressure sensing switch that will start the timer as soon as there is oil pressure. The other method is to wire it electrically which means if that it is counting as soon as you turn on the master switch. In other words, if you have one of those, you are paying for your preflight time while you walk around and check the lights, stall horn...etc. And when you shut down, if you don't turn off the master right away, you are paying for it.

Best to know which type is installed.

I've heard of that being done - I ddin't think it was done that way, that often, though. Thanks - I'll have to check on that. Maybe just fly for an hour with the master turned off and see what happens?

Maybe if the plane was going to be repositioned somewhere else anyway....but that is probably a pretty rare situation and one that would have to be negotiated with individually.

Probably a REALLY rare situation. One of the FBOs I rent from occasionally does move aircraft from one facilty to another. But, as a PP renter, I think you'd run into legality issues if you moved it for the FBO.

 

[Fearless Tower]

That's very true. The Warrior I currently rent has the latter (when the master is on). So first thing on my preflight is to turn it on, listen for the various electrical gyros to begin spinning, quick check of the interior lights, exit the aircraft, and then quickly walk around to verify all lights, press manipulate the stall sensor and listen for the horn, then reach through the small window to switch off. Then it's back to the rh wing root to conduct the physical walk-around.

I used to think that all meters were oil pressure activated and then I discovered the electric switch the hard way.....playing around with the Garmin 430 on the ground!

WRT the OP's original question, my FBO doesn't charge a minimum for overnight activity.

Now that is an awesome FBO! I thought I was doing good with a 1 hr min.

 

[Jaybird180]

Okay, as a newbie to aviation, you may not know the difference between tach time and Hobbes time, or know what a squat switch is, etc. So, to give you simple answers:
1) No, there are no "1 way" rentals.
2) You are only paying for the time you are flying the plane.

As an example, I take a rented single engine plane from Chicago to the Bahamas. I stay there a week, and then return. It takes 10 hours to fly each way. I am paying for 20 hours of rental time, even though I had the plane a week.

As you gather from the above responses, there are some technicalities and nuances, as well as variability between FBOs (where you rent planes), but that's the basics.

Ahhhhh.........you're no fun. Simplifying for the N00b, what kind of PoAer do you call yourself (LOL).

 

[Jaybird180]

I've heard of that being done - I ddin't think it was done that way, that often, though. Thanks - I'll have to check on that. Maybe just fly for an hour with the master turned off and see what happens?

Probably a REALLY rare situation. One of the FBOs I rent from occasionally does move aircraft from one facilty to another. But, as a PP renter, I think you'd run into legality issues if you moved it for the FBO.

Let's NOT have that discussion out loud

 

[gprellwitz]

Answer to first question is....gotta wait awhile until someone on this board answers in the affirmative

Answer to second question is.....if the rental agreement is to charge by tach time, if the tach time is measured by squat switch, then yes.

I used to think that all meters were oil pressure activated and then I discovered the electric switch the hard way.....playing around with the Garmin 430 on the ground!


Now that is an awesome FBO! I thought I was doing good with a 1 hr min.

Yeah, we both have no nightly minimum and we charge by the tach for most of our planes. (I think that the twins are typically by Hobbes, but I also recall that at least on one of them it was tied to the squat switch, so I'm not certain.)

 

[Fearless Tower]

(I think that the twins are typically by Hobbes, but I also recall that at least on one of them it was tied to the squat switch, so I'm not certain.)

I can see it now - taxi all over the field and fly one circuit around the pattern.....cheap twin time!

 

[EdFred]

If it is tied to master, you can shut the master off once the plane is started.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Good luck finding one of those.

It's not so uncommon in twin-engine airplanes to have a Hobbs wired to a squat switch. The Aztec they used to have here was that way.

My club bills by tach time, but on the DA40 (G1000) the "tach" is actually just flight time. There's no squat switch, and I haven't found documentation of the exact parameters, but if it's like most other Garmin things, the clock starts ticking at 30 knots groundspeed.

 

[Henning]

Hello all

I'm new to the forum and am very new to the topic of aviation in general, but I'm becoming very interested. I love to travel and I want to learn to fly.

I was just wondering if anyone knew...is there such thing as a place that rents aircraft that can be dropped at a different location OR is there such thing as a place/person that only charges you for time in the air (ie you flew to somewhere, stayed for a couple of days, then flew back but only got charged for the time in the air)?

No, no nationwide one way rentals, I wish... Most places that rent multi day (can be hard to find and extremely difficult on short notice) will charge daily minimums of between 2 and 4 hrs.

 

[Fearless Tower]

It's not so uncommon in twin-engine airplanes to have a Hobbs wired to a squat switch. The Aztec they used to have here was that way.

Interesting....now, if I owned such an animal and was putting it on a rental line, you can bet that would be the FIRST thing I would change!

Conversely, if I can find a BE-76 that is wired that way, I could just go around and fly it all over the place with the gear down!

 

[Henning]

Interesting....now, if I owned such an animal and was putting it on a rental line, you can bet that would be the FIRST thing I would change!

Depends on how much use you want it to see. One plane costs you on the ground and taxi and one doesn't, which one you gonna take?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Interesting....now, if I owned such an animal and was putting it on a rental line, you can bet that would be the FIRST thing I would change!

Conversely, if I can find a BE-76 that is wired that way, I could just go around and fly it all over the place with the gear down!

Squat switch trips when the weight's off the wheels, not when you raise the gear... Nice try though.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Squat switch trips when the weight's off the wheels, not when you raise the gear... Nice try though.

I take it you've never flown a Duchess?

The squat switches in a BE-76 are not really squat switches like most planes have - their only function is to complete the circuit that makes the green gear light come on in the cockpit.

In the Duchess, the gear protection is accomplished by a pressure sensor in the pitot system that prevents the gear from coming up until a certain airspeed.

 

[EdFred]

I take it you've never flown a Duchess?

The squat switches in a BE-76 are not really squat switches like most planes have - their only function is to complete the circuit that makes the green gear light come on in the cockpit.

In the Duchess, the gear protection is accomplished by a pressure sensor in the pitot system that prevents the gear from coming up until a certain airspeed.

Who says the squat switch in the Duchess (same as on my Comanche) for the gear lights is going to be the same as the Hobbs?

 

[Fearless Tower]

Who says the squat switch in the Duchess (same as on my Comanche) for the gear lights is going to be the same as the Hobbs?

Nobody....I think we are kidding around a bit here. I'm just saying that if you can rig a hobbs meter to a squat switch, then you could rig it to the switch on the Duchess and then fly the airplane around with the gear down and not rack up a dime in rental costs.....at least until the owner started noticing that the tach time was going significantly up while the Hobbs was not.

This is pure fantasy....I seriously doubt that there are any BE-76s so configured, but hey, it's a slow day at work.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Who says the squat switch in the Duchess (same as on my Comanche) for the gear lights is going to be the same as the Hobbs?

Bingo. On that Aztruck it was a different one I'm pretty sure.

I've seen a Seminole that had three Hobbs meters - One on the Master, one on one engine, and one on a squat switch.

 

[jrs0015]

Thank you guys so much for the responses, this is very helpful. What I was scared of is that if I flew somewhere and stayed for a few days that I'd be charged $X/hr for 72+ hrs. It's nice to know that isn't the case.