Aircraft Inner Tubes Info requested

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W.Magnuson

Filing Flight Plan
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About six months ago I saw a short article in an aviation magazine that indicated a "low leakage" inner tube for aircraft. Does anyone know who the manufacturer is or any other information on the tube? Thanks.
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Skip,

I bought mine from Desser (www.desser.com). I put them on about a year ago along with new tires. My results are mixed. The mains do well but the nosewheel requires air almost weekly.

:(
 
Mixed results here as well. We put the 'low leak' tubes in the RV and the mains require airing more than when we had the 'regular leak' tubes in.

Which brings up the question -- aren't all tubes supposed to be marketed as NO leak tubes!?
 
CJones said:
Mixed results here as well. We put the 'low leak' tubes in the RV and the mains require airing more than when we had the 'regular leak' tubes in.

Which brings up the question -- aren't all tubes supposed to be marketed as NO leak tubes!?
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I'm hearing the opposite from the 180 guys, and sorry to know they aren't what you hoped. With wheel pants, the disappearing air pressure issue is a PIA so I would really like to find an answer. Which brand did you buy?
 
timwinters said:
Skip,

I bought mine from Desser (www.desser.com). I put them on about a year ago along with new tires. My results are mixed. The mains do well but the nosewheel requires air almost weekly.

:(
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I got my Michelin low leak inner tube (Brand name AirStop) also from Desser.

When I first installed them I had to put air in about once a month. Now I have not added any air in almost 6 months.
 
Many of the off airport remote operators place a half a can of fixaflat in their tires.
 
hmm that reminds me, i put a new innertube on the glider this spring and it was flat the last time i went to fly. also bought from desser, not cheap either, goofy size tire, 4.00X5 or something.
 
Thanks guys. I'll look up the Michelin "AirStop". My mains are old and weather checked so I'll probably be looking for new tires also - any recommendations?
Skip
 
NC19143 said:
Many of the off airport remote operators place a half a can of fixaflat in their tires.
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That always seemed like such a simple solution. When I asked about it years ago, I got some mumbo-jumbo answer about why it wasn't approved, all the bad stuff it would do, etc. Do you remember any of those arguments and have any information about them or why they may have been prevalent?
 
wabower said:
That always seemed like such a simple solution. When I asked about it years ago, I got some mumbo-jumbo answer about why it wasn't approved, all the bad stuff it would do, etc. Do you remember any of those arguments and have any information about them or why they may have been prevalent?
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I mentioned this to the michlin tire PR person at our last IA seminar and she had a fit about it. but I also asked why I paid so much for inner tubes that are aircraft quality and I must air them twice a week, and I can get a trailor tire that costs 40 bucks and not have to fuss with for years. She didn't have much to say about that.

I have seen no bad effect from adding the fix-a-flat except that some times the valve core gets sealed too.

I asked my local FSDO about it also, he said we treat it like MMO.
 
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Just put a set of Condors and "no leak" tubes on the Warrior about a month ago. So far no leaks, :no: I've been using Condors as long as I remember, they seem to hold up fairly well. :D
 
Dave2 said:
Just put a set of Condors and "no leak" tubes on the Warrior about a month ago. So far no leaks, :no: I've been using Condors as long as I remember, they seem to hold up fairly well. :D
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I installed monster retreads from Desser on my last two birds and love them.
 
W.Magnuson said:
Thanks guys. I'll look up the Michelin "AirStop". My mains are old and weather checked so I'll probably be looking for new tires also - any recommendations?
Skip
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I was going for AirStop and decided to try the Dresser Leakguard instead. So far better than the standard and $10 each cheaper.
 
I changed out my main tires and tubes earlier this summer with Specialty Tires (McCreary) Airhawks and Aero Classic Leakguard tubes. So far, I've not had to add any air at all to the mains, but have had to do so for my nose tire which still has the plain old inner tube.

I went 6 years, and over 700 hours on the first set of Airhawks, which were installed in 2002. My mechanic said I should've run them a little longer since there was still enough tread on them to be airworthy. I was frequently having to add air to the old inner tubes however, to the point it was becoming a hassle so I figured it was more sensible to just go with both new main tires and tubes as long as I was already removing the wheels. Back in 2002, I had also installed a new Airhawk nose tire and tube (full set of three) and it will probably need changed someday due to dry rot before it ever wears out, so I did not change it this year.

Those Airhawks seem to be extraordinarily long lasting tires. I hope the new Leakguard inner tubes live up to their promise. So far they're holding the air really well but it's been less than four months since I installed them.
 
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wabower said:
That always seemed like such a simple solution. When I asked about it years ago, I got some mumbo-jumbo answer about why it wasn't approved, all the bad stuff it would do, etc. Do you remember any of those arguments and have any information about them or why they may have been prevalent?
Click to expand...

The main argument against fix-a-flat and many (not all) similar products in the auto environment is that they use butane for the inflating gas. Butane was the common propellant in aerosol cans before freon came along and has come back as a fairly common replacement now that freon's gone away again. Remember using paint cans as impromptu blow torches? Well, put that same stuff in a tubeless tire and it gets downright dangerous when a mechanic tries to take the tire off the rim. All it takes is a little spark of tool against the rim and the whole tire can explode. That's generally not good for the mechanic's health.

Tubed tires are somewhat safer because the gas is contained within the tube until you deflate it and you usually don't use heavy steel tools for the deflation. In addition, there are now fix-a-flat type products which use a non-explosive propellant. You have to read the labels carefully. But emotions run deep and most people in the tire industry don't want anything to do with fix-a-flat type products again, ever, anywhere, for any reason.
 
What about products like Slime that you squeeze into the tube (no butanne propellant)
 
I put together some of the aircraft tire web sites so you can read and learn more on the subject of tubes.

Aircraft Tube Repairs


Goodyear Aircraft Tire

A new tube should be used when installing a new tire. Tubes grow in service, taking a permanent set of about 25%* larger than the original size. This makes a used tube too large to use in a new tire, which could cause a wrinkle and lead to tube failure.

Dresser Tire and Rubber Company


Tube Inspection and Repair
Since there are three reasons for air loss in a tube-type tire (a hole in the tube, a defective valve stem or valve core), finding an air leak is usually simple. The first step is to check the valve and replace the core if it is defective. If the valve is airtight, demount the tire, remove the tube, locate the leak (by immersion in water if necessary). Repair or replace the tube.

Reuse of Tubes
A new tube should be used when installing a new tire. Tubes grow in service, taking a permanent set of about 25% larger than the original size. This makes a used tube too large to use in a new tire, which could cause a wrinkle and lead to tube failure.

McCreary Tire and Rubber Company


Used Aircraft Tubes

Aircraft tubes are made of natural rubber and are made slightly undersize, so they will fit easily into a new tire. Aircraft-tire plies are made of nylon, and will "grow" slightly in service. The tube will also grow, and will eventually take a permanent set to the (now) larger inside-tire dimension. If this now-larger tube is later put into a new tire, it may be too large for the inside-tire cavity, with the result that the tube may have folds in it. In service, these folds may eventually wear through and destroy the tube's ability to hold air. A slow wearing through will result in a slow leakage of air, and the pilot will be alerted to the problem before it becomes too serious. However, if the tube is torn in a particular takeoff, the tire will probably go flat in mid-air, without the pilot having realized what is wrong. Considering the risks in reinstalling a used innertube, we recommend a new tube installed in a new tire.

Michelin Aircraft Tire Corporation


When you change tires, change tubes!
Data Source: http://www.airmichelin.com/tubes.html
 
Joe B said:
The main argument against fix-a-flat and many (not all) similar products in the auto environment is that they use butane for the inflating gas. Butane was the common propellant in aerosol cans before freon came along and has come back as a fairly common replacement now that freon's gone away again. Remember using paint cans as impromptu blow torches? Well, put that same stuff in a tubeless tire and it gets downright dangerous when a mechanic tries to take the tire off the rim. All it takes is a little spark of tool against the rim and the whole tire can explode. That's generally not good for the mechanic's health.
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When I worked at a tire shop for a summer job, you always down every tire before taking it off the rim, otherwise it is next to impossible to unseat the bead without using a pretty big hammer. So any potentially flammable vapors are just going to come right out and disperse pretty quickly. I never gave any thought to a tire exploding from fix-a-flat, I just detested the mess it made when you dismounted a tire with a wobbly or shallow sidewall and the stuff would spill and get all over your hands, pants, etc..

Down in the humid south, tires would always have a little moisture in them, which would probably make igniting anything pretty difficult if there is enough butane present to do more than cause brief flame.
 
BartY said:
When I worked at a tire shop for a summer job, you always down every tire before taking it off the rim, otherwise it is next to impossible to unseat the bead without using a pretty big hammer. So any potentially flammable vapors are just going to come right out and disperse pretty quickly. I never gave any thought to a tire exploding from fix-a-flat, I just detested the mess it made when you dismounted a tire with a wobbly or shallow sidewall and the stuff would spill and get all over your hands, pants, etc..

Down in the humid south, tires would always have a little moisture in them, which would probably make igniting anything pretty difficult if there is enough butane present to do more than cause brief flame.
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I have no experience with butane in tires but unless you use a vacuum pump to extract all the gases from a tire (pretty impossible with a tubeless tire) there will be enough residual gas to ignite and/or explode if the mixture is combustible. And it seems very plausible that the mixture inside a tire that's been reinflated with butane would have a combustible mixture. Water content will have very little effect on the potential for ignition, a bubble of butane and air under water can be ignited.
 
I'm not disagreeing that there isn't some potential for something igniting, but just that the odds are quite small. Small enough in my mind that it would probably take a deliberate action or freak event (such as the tire being exposed to an open flame) for anything to happen.

I'm sure I knocked up more than a few sparks when I dealt with that junk and nothing ever happened...YMMV.
 
Are tubeless tires common on airplanes? Seems like they took care of most tire problems when they took over the motorcycle world...
 
I know this is an old thread, but I just had my first flat and found this in a search. My last flight was 2 weeks ago and when I went to the hangar yesterday the nose wheel was very low.

One question posed in this thread is why the resistance to products like fix-a-flat. Back in my college days (over 35 yrs ago) I worked in a garage. The mechanics hated the stuff because after someone used it, it made it almost impossible for an inner patch to adhere properly, so any puncture effectively ruined the tire. Yes, you could scrape and clean the stuff, but you could never get it clean enough for a patch to be reliable.

I was also surprised reading this that so many people have to add air so often. This is the first low tire I have had in my 172 in almost 3 years. Of course, my A&P checks them every oil change and annual so he might add air without me knowing.
 
As long as you've resurrected the thread, I'll relate that when Kent had his fourth flat tire Fridy, the mechanic said that they a very frequently associated with low pressure. Kent said that he had commented on the apparent low pressure to the instructor on the first two instances that resulted in flats, but had been told not to worry about them. :mad2:

Moral is if it looks low, check it with a gauge and fill if necessary!
 
I was plagued by slow leaks and switched to "leak-guard" tubes. Haven't added air in two years.
 
Take em to a tire shop and have them filled with nitrogen. It will decrease the leak rate.
 
gprellwitz said:
As long as you've resurrected the thread, I'll relate that when Kent had his fourth flat tire Fridy, the mechanic said that they a very frequently associated with low pressure. Kent said that he had commented on the apparent low pressure to the instructor on the first two instances that resulted in flats, but had been told not to worry about them. :mad2:

Moral is if it looks low, check it with a gauge and fill if necessary!
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And don't listen to CFI's who tell you it'll be fine without breaking out a tire gauge and a POH (to find the proper pressure).
 
Really? Before I replaced the tubes, I could get within a couple of pounds just by watching the inflation of the tire. A small "roll" where the tire met the pavement was ~25 PSI. Close enough for government work.

flyingcheesehead said:
And don't listen to CFI's who tell you it'll be fine without breaking out a tire gauge and a POH (to find the proper pressure).
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Wayne- with the government we have now (both parties), I think you just proved Kent's point :)
 
I keep having problems with tubes - Michelin Air Stops to the cheapy brands from Desser - doesn't seem to matter. I've had 3 flats in the last couple of years. Nothing was found in the tire - no damage at all. And yet, the tube at a hole in it that looked like it had been poked with an ice pick. We never find anything inside the tire. It doesn't look like it was pinched when installed. It's just got a hole in it. Two of the flats failed suddenly going flat in a few seconds and one was a slow leak that I finally pulled off and found the hole.

For the Pitts, I'm doing many landings per flight hour so I buy the cheapy Condor tires from Desser and always put in a new tube. They're replaced about once a year in about 60 - 80 hours of flying and probably 300 landings.

Any ideas about what's happening or if there's anything I can do differently to improve the life of my tubes?
 
You mean other than getting a life and buying a different airplane?:rofl:

PittsDriver said:
Any ideas about what's happening or if there's anything I can do differently to improve the life of my tubes?
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wabower said:
Not enough to matter. Get different tubes.
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Exactly, I stick with the free stuff even if it's only about 76% pure

PittsDriver said:
And yet, the tube at a hole in it that looked like it had been poked with an ice pick. We never find anything inside the tire. It doesn't look like it was pinched when installed. It's just got a hole in it. Two of the flats failed suddenly going flat in a few seconds and one was a slow leak that I finally pulled off and found the hole.
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Sounds like my flight school planes.
 
wabower said:
Really? Before I replaced the tubes, I could get within a couple of pounds just by watching the inflation of the tire. A small "roll" where the tire met the pavement was ~25 PSI. Close enough for government work.
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Well, every time I ask a CFI if that looks OK to them, the tire goes flat.

Next time I just won't ask. Then I'll know if it's correlation or causation. ;)

Seriously though, CFI's tend to not want to deal with things like low tires and they get a little overly optimistic... So if a pilot has any doubt at all, it's time to break out a gauge.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Well, every time I ask a CFI if that looks OK to them, the tire goes flat.

Next time I just won't ask. Then I'll know if it's correlation or causation. ;)

Seriously though, CFI's tend to not want to deal with things like low tires and they get a little overly optimistic... So if a pilot has any doubt at all, it's time to break out a gauge.
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Nothing about being a CFI makes me an expert of visually identifying tire pressure. So if you ask me to do so, my guess is as good as yours.
 
PittsDriver said:
Any ideas about what's happening or if there's anything I can do differently to improve the life of my tubes?
Click to expand...

Yeah Wes, get an S-1S...I got 2 1/2 yrs and over 800 landings on the last set of cheapie Air Hawks. Re-used the tubes too. :)
 
jesse said:
Nothing about being a CFI makes me an expert of visually identifying tire pressure. So if you ask me to do so, my guess is as good as yours.
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True, however in both cases the CFI's had WAY more flight experience than I did, both total and in the particular airplane of the day, so they probably were better at visually identifying tire pressure than I was. Or so I thought. :no:
 
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