Aircraft data plate

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Todd Copeland

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Glasair pilot
So, an aircraft that was wrecked has the insurance company pull the data plate off and throw it away. The aircraft is fully re buildable and could be bought well. The FAA had nothing to do with the data plate removal. As far as I can tell, the aircraft can be rebuilt and legal but a new data plate has to be obtained from the manufacturer and this manufacturer changed hands. What can be done?
 
Hope you're asking about this as a potential buyer trying to anticipate issues before writing a check, not as an actual buyer trying to salvage a situation after the purchase. I'd ask the manufacturer's current owner, but odds are that plane is nothing but a parts locker now. You might also see if the aircraft has been stricken from the FAA register. If so, it will be that much harder to get it flying again.
 
Do a forum search for 'data plate'. There was another thread recently that discusses this sort of thing. Basically, the owner would need to contact the FSDO and prove to them that the airplane is what it is claimed to be. Once the FSDO is satisfied, they will issue a letter authorizing the manufacturer to issue a replacement data plate.

Edit, Found it....http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76663&highlight=data+plate
 
My point was that you're not getting this done without the manufacturer in the loop, so I'd start there and see if they're even willing to consider such a request. You are going to have to locate and talk with that type certificate holder or you're cooked, so that's where I'd start.
 
Ron Levy said:
Hope you're asking about this as a potential buyer trying to anticipate issues before writing a check, not as an actual buyer trying to salvage a situation after the purchase. I'd ask the manufacturer's current owner, but odds are that plane is nothing but a parts locker now. You might also see if the aircraft has been stricken from the FAA register. If so, it will be that much harder to get it flying again.
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I have done a search. The aircraft is current in registration and legal. I have not purchased the plane. It is simply without the data plate. The plane is re buildable but I think to get a data plate I would have to get one essentially as an experimental built from parts. I even read that the serial number can be used with the re builders initials next to it. I'm sure it can be done but I know what a nightmare the FAA can be when trying to do something not done everyday. This would not be a cheap purchase either so I don't want to just go on faith.
 
Todd Copeland said:
So, an aircraft that was wrecked has the insurance company pull the data plate off and throw it away. The aircraft is fully re buildable and could be bought well. The FAA had nothing to do with the data plate removal. As far as I can tell, the aircraft can be rebuilt and legal but a new data plate has to be obtained from the manufacturer and this manufacturer changed hands. What can be done?
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I wouldn't think the insurance company would do that. The wrecked hull would have traceable parts if they left it on when it was sold for salvage and would bring better money with it than without.
 
Ron Levy said:
My point was that you're not getting this done without the manufacturer in the loop, so I'd start there and see if they're even willing to consider such a request. You are going to have to locate and talk with that type certificate holder or you're cooked, so that's where I'd start.
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You can start the phone calls with whoever you want first, but the bottom line is that these days, the manufacturer/type Certificate holder isn't going to do anything without a letter from the FAA.
 
Todd Copeland said:
I have done a search. The aircraft is current in registration and legal. I have not purchased the plane. It is simply without the data plate. The plane is re buildable but I think to get a data plate I would have to get one essentially as an experimental built from parts. I even read that the serial number can be used with the re builders initials next to it. I'm sure it can be done but I know what a nightmare the FAA can be when trying to do something not done everyday. This would not be a cheap purchase either so I don't want to just go on faith.
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If the aircraft is still registered, has a valid airworthiness certificate and you can prove to the FSDO that it is the airplane in question, then they will issue a letter authorizing a replacement data plate.
 
This whole conversation is rather bizarre....

Why would the Ins Co pull the data plate on a rebuildable wreck ?

If it is not that damaged, and the FAA can confirm that no funny business is involved, then they should /could issue a new set of paperwork..

I am assuming this was a certified plane we are talking about ???:dunno:
 
Um, if this is a certain bonanza that has been on eBay and other places, forget it. Every few weeks, someone is making their first post on BeechTalk about that that pile of parts. The common wisdom there is the best thing that could be done with the aircraft is to part it out...
 
It's a columbia 350. Damaged in a landing accident. Complete logs airworthyness etc.
 
The thought on BT on the 33 bonanza is that if you can't get beech to issue a data plate, then you will never have a certified aircraft. What the owner did was to register the aircraft as an experimental. The wisdom is this would limit you to something like a 500 mile radius to your home base. I know there are smarter BTers over here that might provide better information...

Too many other fish, um, birds out there on the market...
 
I don't know about now but years ago we had a bunch of data plates made up for a series of airplanes we were restoring. Just had them silk screened on aluminum- exact replicas of the original. I think I still have a couple of blanks somewhere. Anyway there's a lot of vintage aircraft out there whose data plate has been faithfully replicated. All other ppwk is in order. No biggie. It's just a minor but necessary detail in any restoration if the original is missing, as far as I recall.
 
brian];1622056 said:
The thought on BT on the 33 bonanza is that if you can't get beech to issue a data plate, then you will never have a certified aircraft. What the owner did was to register the aircraft as an experimental. The wisdom is this would limit you to something like a 500 mile radius to your home base. I know there are smarter BTers over here that might provide better information...

Too many other fish, um, birds out there on the market...
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There are several "types" of Experimental certs none of which would fit a repaired certified aircraft per se. What type of Experimental registration was obtained? Neither Amateur Built or racing or exhibition or research/development seem appropriate.
 
As long as the data Tag is in current FAA registration and legally owned by some one, and they are unwilling to sell, there is nothing you can do. the rest of the aircraft including the maintenance records and registration are useless. except for parts.
 
It isn't a certificated aircraft without a data tag. It's a collection of parts. Cub rebuilders have dealt with this issue for years.
 
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Witmo said:
There are several "types" of Experimental certs none of which would fit a repaired certified aircraft per se. What type of Experimental registration was obtained? Neither Amateur Built or racing or exhibition or research/development seem appropriate.
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Got me. Link to BT below. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but this thing looks like a bad idea..
http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92366
 
Tom-D said:
Who has the data tag?
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My understanding is that the insurance co removed it. All other paperwork is there. It has been suggested that you simply make an identical replacement as everything else is there and legal. Then repair as needed and inspect then fly. It's now on eBay. Too many questions but the G1000 is nearly worth the asking price. I know I could repair but the paperwork thing is a little too worrisome for me.
 
Todd Copeland said:
My understanding is that the insurance co removed it. All other paperwork is there. It has been suggested that you simply make an identical replacement as everything else is there and legal. Then repair as needed and inspect then fly. It's now on eBay. Too many questions but the G1000 is nearly worth the asking price. I know I could repair but the paperwork thing is a little too worrisome for me.
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Salvage is salvage, If you can make a buck, do it.
 
Todd Copeland said:
My understanding is that the insurance co removed it. All other paperwork is there. It has been suggested that you simply make an identical replacement as everything else is there and legal. Then repair as needed and inspect then fly. It's now on eBay. Too many questions but the G1000 is nearly worth the asking price. I know I could repair but the paperwork thing is a little too worrisome for me.
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If you "simply" make a replacement and put it on the plane you may never get caught. But then again, if you are caught, you are in for a real world of hurt.

This needs to be done correctly and legally.
 
Found this thread and hopefully someone can help: Bought a J3C-65 only to find out the data plate was missing. Upon requesting one from piper, found out the frame number doesnt match what left the factory in 1946. Turns out I have a 1939 frame. So no dataplate. I tried everything I could to get one legally. No luck. The gentelement who sold it to me is an A&P IA and assued me the aircraft was airworthy
 
Making a replacement data plate is one thing, but you would have to have a bill of sale for the aircraft if you want to register it. You have to establish an unbroken chain of ownership from the last registered owner. I presume that if the insurance company removed the data plate, they woudn't be willing to provide an aircraft bill of sale, either, only a bill of sale for "aircraft parts".
 
The aircraft has a current airworthiness certificate, and registration. Just no dataplate. So it sits in my hangar now until I can correctly obtain one. Everyone I have contacted so far, FAA Inspectors, DARs, Piper themselves, seem to only reply with that they cannot correctly issue me a datatplate because there are markings indicating that I have a '39 frame rather than a
46 frame. My mechanic will not sign off an annual with no dataplate
 
ekp5072 said:
The aircraft has a current airworthiness certificate, and registration. Just no dataplate. So it sits in my hangar now until I can correctly obtain one. Everyone I have contacted so far, FAA Inspectors, DARs, Piper themselves, seem to only reply with that they cannot correctly issue me a datatplate because there are markings indicating that I have a '39 frame rather than a
46 frame. My mechanic will not sign off an annual with no dataplate
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See if you can re-register as "Experimental Exhibition"; the limitations may be acceptable.
 
ekp5072 said:
The aircraft has a current airworthiness certificate, and registration. Just no dataplate. So it sits in my hangar now until I can correctly obtain one. Everyone I have contacted so far, FAA Inspectors, DARs, Piper themselves, seem to only reply with that they cannot correctly issue me a datatplate because there are markings indicating that I have a '39 frame rather than a
46 frame. My mechanic will not sign off an annual with no dataplate
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You probably need to find the parts to make it either a ‘39 or a ‘46, or else get an STC or field approval to modify the airplane into what you have.

If you have paperwork from the seller that says it’s a legal airplane, I’d go after him to get my money back if I were in your shoes.

Sounds to me like this is NOT a “data plate” problem.
Good luck.
 
Reading through this thread, it seems like stripping and discarding the data plate on a damaged but salvageable aircraft is stupid and pointless, given its value. Why would someone do that?
 
Todd Copeland said:
So, an aircraft that was wrecked has the insurance company pull the data plate off and throw it away. The aircraft is fully re buildable and could be bought well. The FAA had nothing to do with the data plate removal. As far as I can tell, the aircraft can be rebuilt and legal but a new data plate has to be obtained from the manufacturer and this manufacturer changed hands. What can be done?
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Nope, the aircraft isn't complete with out a data tag. and you can't get one. because the FAA requires you get the tag from the manufacturer. think they want to get back into that liability loop?
 
Norman said:
I wouldn't think the insurance company would do that. The wrecked hull would have traceable parts if they left it on when it was sold for salvage and would bring better money with it than without.
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Yer close, the insurance company usually sends the data tag to the FAA they throw the tag away, and deregister the aircraft. It takes a while to process.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Reading through this thread, it seems like stripping and discarding the data plate on a damaged but salvageable aircraft is stupid and pointless, given its value. Why would someone do that?
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The insurance company wants out of the liability for wrecked aircraft.
 
ekp5072 said:
The aircraft has a current airworthiness certificate, and registration. Just no dataplate. So it sits in my hangar now until I can correctly obtain one. Everyone I have contacted so far, FAA Inspectors, DARs, Piper themselves, seem to only reply with that they cannot correctly issue me a datatplate because there are markings indicating that I have a '39 frame rather than a
46 frame. My mechanic will not sign off an annual with no dataplate
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Better to find wreck in a salvage yard and grab the data tag and re-register.
 
ekp5072 said:
...they cannot correctly issue me a datatplate because there are markings indicating that I have a '39 frame rather than a
46 frame. My mechanic will not sign off an annual with no dataplate
Click to expand...

What kind of "markings"? I know automobiles have the VIN stamped on the frame in some "secret" location, but I've never heard of that for aircraft.

So the plane was once repaired or rebuilt with used parts? Happens all the time, AFAIK legal if the parts are identical (from the same model produced under the same TC) or approved substitutions. My '41 T-Craft had a postwar fuselage because it was replaced at one point, and at another time the wings were replaced with a set of "good used wings". As far as I could figure the only original parts were the landing gear, the nose grills, the instrument panel (but not the instruments)... and presumably the data plate.

Of course, there are many companies who will make any kind of data plate you want from customer provided artwork. Just sayin'. "Hey, good news, I found the missing plate."
 
ekp5072 said:
The gentelement who sold it to me is an A&P IA and assued me the aircraft was airworthy
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I hope he assured you that in writing, allowing you to go and get your money back.

Without a data plate, you don't have an airplane (at least according to the FAA). You have an airplane-shaped thing. The data plate IS the aircraft in the eyes of the FAA. CubCrafters made a business for many years of taking data plates and building entirely new airplanes around them, and that was classified as a "major repair" by the FAA, not a new airplane.

So... Best thing you can do is to take the plane back and get your money back, if he assured you it was airworthy in writing. Otherwise, you may have just made a very expensive mistake.
 
ekp5072 said:
current airworthiness certificate, and registration.
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On the AWC and registration:
What are the dates listed?
Is "reissue" or "replacement" typed next to the dates?
Do the aircraft serial numbers match between the documents?

Did the previous owner sign off the last annual as the IA?
Did you have a pre-buy performed by someone prior to purchase?
 
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