Age related diseases.

Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
How does one know when to make an intervention and how would you do that?

Mods, please correct my over active auto correct
 
Re: Age related deceases.

We in the forum will tell you "enough"
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Tom-D said:
How does one know when to make an intervention and how would you do that?

Mods, please correct my over active auto correct
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I'd say the "when" is when you accurately and unemotionally determine that the person's health and/or safety would be significantly worse if you didn't "intervene". As to the "how" I think that would be extremely situation dependent and you've offered insufficient information on that.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

gismo said:
As to the "how" I think that would be extremely situation dependent and you've offered insufficient information on that.
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Is there a proper channel to do that ?
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Ask your friend how he feels about how his current level performance compares to his abilities in the past. He may already know that he's slipped and is struggling with finding a graceful way out.

Tom-D said:
When and how would raise the "enough" flag on a friend?

what's the proper way to do that?
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Re: Age related deceases.

"Age Related Deceases"

I know what Tom means, but what a Freudian the title is. :rofl:
 
Re: Age related deceases.

wabower said:
Ask your friend how he feels about how his current level performance compares to his abilities in the past. He may already know that he's slipped and is struggling with finding a graceful way out.
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tried that, lost a friend.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Geico266 said:
Tom, you have to be more specific. Male or female, pilot? Flying or driving? Drinking drugs?

In other words WTF are you talking about? :rofl:
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No, I'm not going public with that.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Tom-D said:
Didn't you just try to spin this on me?
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Yep. Just rattlin' your cage a little.

If a pilot, their next medical may take care of the problem. If not, it gets harder to keep them from driving or whatever until they fail an eye exam or get into an accident.

Not much you can do about age related deceases- most of us will be deceased due to age (It least I hope so).
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Tom- if a friend, you take them aside and explain the game's over. If they don't listen, maybe other friends can help and maybe peer pressure might be able to do the trick.

If married to them, you might be able to stop them from whatever they are doing, in some places.

If a pilot, maybe a chat with the local FSDO. If a driver, maybe a chat with a police friend. Depending on where you are, the word gets out and they do something dumb enough to warrant a ticket and driver evaluation that gets them off the road. You already know to tread carefully here.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Tough question Tom. There is probably not a good answer, no matter what the specific situation is. Good luck
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Tom-D said:
And that is one of the major symptoms of what ?
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If a friend sat down with you and said he was concern about you would he still be your friend? If you answer yes then you have a good friendship. If you answer no you never had a friend in the first place.

The point is Tom, the term "friend" is thrown around alot. Like a lot of other words it's meaning is now less than it use to be. A friend will tell you what is on his mind. That is what friends are for. At the end of the day he or she is still your friend, if not they were never your friend to begin with. ;)

If this whole conversation is about you then we can have a discussion about what the friend told you, and then you can work on adaptation of techniques to overcome the deficiencies.

Getting old is not the problem, not learning to adapt is. ;)
 
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Re: Age related deceases.

Tom-D said:
Is there a proper channel to do that ?
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Well you could post more details on the medical forum anonymously but now that you've gone this far it might be pretty obvious where that came from.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

What sort of diseases?

Are these something that would disqualify them on an medical exam but you're worried something might happen before they take their next one, or something else?

A lot depends on the character of the person you are trying to reach.

Edit: keep in mind that unless the impairment caused by the disease(s) is blatantly obvious, your friendly advice may be taken by the person as amateur advice; not something they will follow up on.

You might probe to see if they are getting concerned at all about their own abilities. Might provide a way to concur and convince them to followup with a doctor and/or CFI.
 
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Re: Age related deceases.

Jim Logajan said:
What sort of diseases?

Are these something that would disqualify them on an medical exam but you're worried something might happen before they take their next one, or something else?

A lot depends on the character of the person you are trying to reach.

Edit: keep in mind that unless the impairment caused by the disease(s) is blatantly obvious, your friendly advice may be taken by the person as amateur advice; not something they will follow up on.

You might probe to see if they are getting concerned at all about their own abilities. Might provide a way to concur and convince them to followup with a doctor and/or CFI.
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That's where I am with this.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Tom-D said:
Is there a proper channel to do that ?
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Yes there is. We call this "gradual cognitive impairment". But you will have to go on record as raising the issue, in writing.

Send the accusation and the airman's name, and address, to Dr. Courtney Scott, Chief, Aeromedical Certification, PO Box 26200, Oklahoma City, OK 73125.

He will demand a cognitive evaluation. These are frightfully expensive- about three cylinder kits' worth. Most aimren of that age, when confronted with the demand, simply send in their medical certificates.

The airman in question will be able under FOIA to obtain your complaint and name.

So, choose carefully. If you do it, do it out of love and with no regrets.

Of course, you could also just get a bunch of guys together and meet him in his hangar.....
 
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Re: Age related deceases.

bbchien said:
Yes there is. We call this "gradual cognitive impairment". But you will have to go on record as raising the issue, in writing.

Send the accusation and the airman's name, and address, to Dr. Courtney Scott, Chief, Aeromedical Certification, PO Box 26200, Oklahoma City, OK 73125.

He will demand a cognitive evaluation. These are frightfully expensive- about three cylinder kits' worth. Most aimren of that age, when confronted with the demand, simply send in their medical certificates.

The airman in question will be able under FOIA to obtain your complaint and name.

So, choose carefully. If you do it, do it out of love and with no regrets.

Of course, you could also just get a bunch of guys together and meet him in his hangar.....
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Looks like I have a decision to make, Thanks Bruce.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Depends on the issue. Is the issue disease or behavior? If the latter, with all due respect, you may not be qualified to judge, no matter what your aviation wisdom. You aren't a doc. If the latter, is the behavior affecting other aspects of the person's life? Can you bring in a spouse or other friends to attempt intervention?

At the end of the day you must do what what you reasonably can, and not one whit more. At some level, folks will do what they'll do, and there's nothing you can do to change that.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

steingar said:
Depends on the issue. Is the issue disease or behavior? If the latter, with all due respect, you may not be qualified to judge, no matter what your aviation wisdom. You aren't a doc. If the latter, is the behavior affecting other aspects of the person's life? Can you bring in a spouse or other friends to attempt intervention?

At the end of the day you must do what what you reasonably can, and not one whit more. At some level, folks will do what they'll do, and there's nothing you can do to change that.
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The friends that know the pilot in question all feel he has quick on set Alzheimer's. When we all compare note we pretty much know it.

His kids have now taken his keys away. So, I feel it's a family matter and will leave the decisions up to them.

thanks Bruce for the address. That's what I really needed.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Tom-D said:
The friends that know the pilot in question all feel he has quick on set Alzheimer's. When we all compare note we pretty much know it.

His kids have now taken his keys away. So, I feel it's a family matter and will leave the decisions up to them.

thanks Bruce for the address. That's what I really needed.
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You must report him. He will probably hate you for it, but the folks on the ground he doesn't kill will love you.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

steingar said:
You must report him. He will probably hate you for it, but the folks on the ground he doesn't kill will love you.
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His family will handle that, along with all the other aspects of the disease.

I've been asked to disable the aircraft. that will be done today.

his family Dr. is also his AME. (things will fall into place.)
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Tom-D said:
His family will handle that, along with all the other aspects of the disease.

I've been asked to disable the aircraft. that will be done today.

his family Dr. is also his AME. (things will fall into place.)
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Good. You just can't fool round with cognitive loss. I hope his condition is organic in cause. I wouldn't wish Alzheimers on someone I didn't like.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

This is a hard question. There are a number of threads on the topic here and on the red board.
Many of us have had this conversation about our parents, and no doubt our kids will be dreading it with us.
Losing or giving up the ability to do something may be less painful if there is no alternative or if there is an acceptable substitute. The decision and transition can still be wrenching. It's an admission of mortality and that is a challenge for most of us, I would imagine.
Take him for a ride sometimes? Get him a desk top simulator? Get him involved in EAA chapter support activities? Get him around others who have made and learned to accomodate the change?
Sorry I don't have any words of wisdom.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

jnmeade said:
Take him for a ride sometimes? Get him a desk top simulator? Get him involved in EAA chapter support activities? Get him around others who have made and learned to accomodate the change?
Sorry I don't have any words of wisdom.
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From that I would conclude that you do not understand quick on set ?
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Tom-D said:
From that I would conclude that you do not understand quick on set ?
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I know that I don't.

But, it has been my observation that by the time someone decided they really need to do something, it is something that is typically well overdue. There is a tendency towards denial on the part of all parties - he/she isn't quite that bad - yet.

Another thing I've seen is someone who decides to give it up after a scare, but then talks themselves into thinking they are still doing OK.

Perhaps with "quick onset" the time factor is not quite as large.

Also, it has been my observation that when the keys do finally get taken away, the person can be really ****ed. For a long time.

It's not easy, but sometimes it's necessary. The big risk is they will take someone with them...

I'm sorry about your friend.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
IAlso, it has been my observation that when the keys do finally get taken away, the person can be really ****ed. For a long time.
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True. They will still be talking about it even after they get to the point where if you hand them the keys they have no idea how to start a car. Judgment and reality were gone a long time ago.

Sorry about your friend, Tom. If the family is handling it that's a good thing.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I know that I don't.
Perhaps with "quick onset" the time factor is not quite as large.
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6 weeks ago this guy was winning hand after hand at poker night, driving his car, doing his daily errands, and passed his BFR.

Friday the local police brought him home he was walking the dog and got lost 2 blocks from the house.

this is the second guy in 6 months that I know personally that has been effected this way.

Ugly, simply ugly.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

From my limited exposure to Alzheimer's, it's hard to predict the person's reaction. Early on some people will be willing to listen and accept help, especially from people they really trust. However, most people seem to be in denial even early in the disease's progression.

I wouldn't wish Alzheimer's on anyone, even my worst enemy. No one deserves Alzherimer's, no one.

There are some drugs that help slow the progression of the disease early on. Hopefully your friend/acquaintance will accept taking the drugs.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Tom-D said:
Ugly, simply ugly.
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Yes it is. I suspect that if I start losing my faculties I'll be trying to hang on to my activities longer than might be prudent. My mother came down with serious dementia in her late 80s and lived to her mid nineties and while I wouldn't call her symptoms "quick onset" the mental deterioration was still pretty rapid and she was never able/willing to realize she had a problem.

Old age sucks but the alternative isn't much better.
 
Re: Age related deceases.

Tom-D said:
6 weeks ago this guy was winning hand after hand at poker night, driving his car, doing his daily errands, and passed his BFR.

Friday the local police brought him home he was walking the dog and got lost 2 blocks from the house.

this is the second guy in 6 months that I know personally that has been effected this way.

Ugly, simply ugly.
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Has this fellow been to see an MD? What you're describing is awfully quick, even for rapid onset Alzheimers. There are other treatable disorders that can result in dementia.

If it is the big A, you have my condolences. Like I said, I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and I never want to see another person go through it as long as I live.
 
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