After your PPL and IFR is it possible to take lessons in a Turboprop?

LOL! Was just watching TBL again for the first time in a long while, a few nights ago. One of my top three faves of all time.
 
Ryan F. said:
One of my friends flew for Travolta! And Cruise at times. Interesting tales.

Actually, to the best of my knowledge both of those celebrities started in light piston aircraft like the rest of us, and moved their way up. I'm going from memory, but that's my recollection.
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Okay, so thats the point of this thread isn't it? OP is flying light singles and has interest in jumping into a turbine. Same situation. :dunno:

I never said anything about practicality. Can it be done? Sure. Is it practical for the average Joe? Of course not.

We can always get into the technicals of every situation so I figured somebody would have to point those out.
 
Great flick. Have it on the DVR, watch it every so often.
 
Ryan F. said:
There's not much of a direct path for what you're suggesting unless you're already a prospective owner or regular client for that category of aircraft. If you ferret around and try hard enough you might be able to find someone willing to sell you some dual time, but usually turboprop owners don't need a few extra grand in their pocket, and there's a lot of liability concerns with a low-time private pilot at the controls. And along with that, of course, are insurance considerations.

Most pilots who want to fly kerosene burners are on a career path. If you're not, and you don't own a multi-million dollar business or have some kind of comparable income stream, these types of aircraft are mostly off-limits to you; even single-engine turboprops. By the way, I don't think you're missing much until you get into jets. Flying a turboprop single isn't really that much different from flying a high-performance single. Just higher altitudes and true airspeeds.
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That, for the most part it's actually easier to fly turbines, shy from the startup being a bit more sensitive, it's super easy, no mixture, on the PC12 no prop control, no worries about shock cooling or anything like that, pull the power back and pitch for a mile a minute for all that engine cares, beta and reverse make short field ops much easier, smoother and less likely to fail due to simplicity.

The Pilatus really is a procedural airplane, she's built from the ground up to be a single pilot IMC/ice ship and she handles that role very well, but she does fly like a autopilot airplane, over 1k AGL the Pilatus really was intended to be on autopilot, not to say you can't hand fly her, I've flown quite a bit when our AP was on MEL, making you a hand flown VFR plane.

Sorry if I came off anti Pilatus, god knows im not, love the plane and it also puts food on my table.
 
Ryanb said:
Okay, so thats the point of this thread isn't it?
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... Not really? The OP isn't a wealthy celebrity, he's an "average Joe" like you said, and he doesn't want to fantasize about flying a turboprop, he wants to actually do it. That frames the question in the realm of practicality. Short of pulling up a few rocks and finding a willing owner or maybe a professional aviation program out there with a turbine transition program which would allow him to work out an ad-hoc arrangement, there's not much of an avenue for this. That has been my point all along.

I'm really not busting your - or anyone's - chops on the technicalities. Just the real world issues.
 
Ryan F. said:
... Not really? The OP isn't a wealthy celebrity, he's an "average Joe" like you said, and he doesn't want to fantasize about flying a turboprop, he wants to actually do it. That frames the question in the realm of practicality. Short of pulling up a few rocks and finding a willing owner or maybe a professional aviation program out there with a turbine transition program which would allow him to work out an ad-hoc arrangement, there's not much of an avenue for this. That has been my point all along.

I'm really not busting your - or anyone's - chops on the technicalities. Just the real world issues.
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I'd still say you got a good chance at some stick time if you call around some turbine drop zones.
 
James331 said:
I'd still say you got a good chance at some stick time if you call around some turbine drop zones.
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True, at least some ride-alongs maybe, especially if you're the same brand of crazy as most jump pilots I've ever known.
 
To answer a few questions, yes sims the sims can be very realistic, especially level D full motion boxes. I received my type rating for the CRJ in the sim, first time i flew it in real life was after i held a PIC type rating in it. 99.9% of airline pilots received their training for the jets in the sim, and the first time they ever flew that airplane was on a revenue flight with passengers. You can even find a place and maybe grab an hour in a jet sim, whether a boeing or a citation, its very realistic

I got to fly a grand caravan, it was honestly just as easy as flying my 182, literally felt like a big 182, so if your interested in that cool turbine factor, as much as I love the grand caravan as a plane, if your looking for something exciting I'd try to get up in something else

for those that mentioned the drop zone thing this is a fact. I went skydiving one day, jumped out of a king air 90, asked if i could ride along on the next flight as I'm a pilot and would love to sit in the nose of one, the guy was all for it, and let me fly the whole thing besides the takeoff and landing, and didn't charge me a dime for that.

you could always be an interested purchaser in one and try to convince them for a demo flight....hmmmm i wonder if that would work?
 
Ryan F. said:
True, at least some ride-alongs maybe, especially if you're the same brand of crazy as most jump pilots I've ever known.
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If it's a 4000' OVC day, or super cold, I'm sure some DZO would be game with making some money with their plane from a guy who wants some turbine time.

Being straight pt91 nothing stopping you from getting some PIC time if the pilot is cool with it.
 
Yeah, try and hitch a ride with a jump plane. Its not the same though. No pressurization. Big open door in the side. Noisy and windy. Need pressurization. Need a jet. Then fly over the Colorado Rockies! Now THAT would be a thrill!
 
Ryan F. said:
... Not really? The OP isn't a wealthy celebrity, he's an "average Joe" like you said, and he doesn't want to fantasize about flying a turboprop, he wants to actually do it. That frames the question in the realm of practicality. Short of pulling up a few rocks and finding a willing owner or maybe a professional aviation program out there with a turbine transition program which would allow him to work out an ad-hoc arrangement, there's not much of an avenue for this. That has been my point all along.

I'm really not busting your - or anyone's - chops on the technicalities. Just the real world issues.
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I remember one time on the red board that someone made it known that getting some stick time in something that burns jet-a was on their bucket list. The next thing you know, some yahoo in a jet was letting him sit right seat!

:)
 
coloradobluesky said:
Yeah, try and hitch a ride with a jump plane. Its not the same though. No pressurization. Big open door in the side. Noisy and windy. Need pressurization. Need a jet. Then fly over the Colorado Rockies! Now THAT would be a thrill!
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Yanking and banking a King air, to me, would be way more fun than going straight and level, most likley on AP or a mt range ;)
 
Sam D said:
I remember one time on the red board that someone made it known that getting some stick time in something that burns jet-a was on their bucket list. The next thing you know, some yahoo in a jet was letting him sit right seat!

:)
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I seem to remember that... and now that guy is an airline pilot!
 
James331 said:
Yanking and banking a King air, to me, would be way more fun than going straight and level, most likley on AP or a mt range ;)
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Fun flying low over a river, around the sharp bends, laughing all the way, oh shet where'd he come from!

don't know why I know this....
 
Does the OPer even have his PPL yet?

I'm not trying to kill his dreams, but he's getting way ahead of himself. Get your PPL done first, get your instrument, get several hundred hours of experience, get a few million in the bank, and then we'll talk about turboprops.
 
Bonchie said:
Does the OPer even have his PPL yet?

I'm not trying to kill his dreams, but he's getting way ahead of himself. Get your PPL done first, get your instrument, get several hundred hours of experience, get a few million in the bank, and then we'll talk about turboprops.
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Didn't catch that he was a student pilot. You're right -- that's way down the river -- do some paddling first!
 
Bonchie said:
Does the OPer even have his PPL yet?

I'm not trying to kill his dreams, but he's getting way ahead of himself. Get your PPL done first, get your instrument, get several hundred hours of experience, get a few million in the bank, and then we'll talk about turboprops.
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He's not looking to fly for money. He just want to joyride some stick time for an hour or three. Recreational bucket list type of stuff. If I was a recreational private pilot I much rather pay for MIG or L39 time rather than some boring (to me) turboprop cruiser, but to each their own.
 
James331 said:
That, for the most part it's actually easier to fly turbines, shy from the startup being a bit more sensitive, it's super easy, no mixture, on the PC12 no prop control, no worries about shock cooling or anything like that, pull the power back and pitch for a mile a minute for all that engine cares, beta and reverse make short field ops much easier, smoother and less likely to fail due to simplicity.

The Pilatus really is a procedural airplane, she's built from the ground up to be a single pilot IMC/ice ship and she handles that role very well, but she does fly like a autopilot airplane, over 1k AGL the Pilatus really was intended to be on autopilot, not to say you can't hand fly her, I've flown quite a bit when our AP was on MEL, making you a hand flown VFR plane.

Sorry if I came off anti Pilatus, god knows im not, love the plane and it also puts food on my table.
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What does an "autopilot airplane" fly like? After the first few months in the PC-12, I hand flew it to altitude every single time, regardless of weather. Its a great hand-flying airplane. Its also interesting to see the difference in handling characteristics when its down low compared to it in the FL's. While I didnt have as much fun flying it as I did the diver driver E90, I still had plenty of fun - mostly doing STOL ops.

Even in the Level-D 737-800 sim, I was surprised at how much it flew just like any other airplane; pitch and power. I spent most of my time hand-flying the sim. My IP even made jokes about how he wanted to demonstrate certain maneuvers but knew I wouldnt let the autopilot fly it. I hand-flew that airplane up to FL400 @ 131k lbs. Sensitive? You bet. But, it was possible... at least in the simulator.

I went into that sim thinking airliners were something magical in regards to aerodynamics. I was truly surprised to find out that its just another airplane in its most basic form (just dont turn the YD off, lol). A fat, heavy airplane.

Hand fly more often. Flying is more enjoyable that way.
 
They made us demonstrate w/ the AP on in the sim. When I left 3 1/2 years ago we were encouraged to engage the AP at the minimum AP altitude, think it was 700' agl. I didn't and most of the old timers didn't, we hand flew it while it seemed the younger (ducking for incoming) pilots engaged it ASAP. Knew a few who fly the jet manually from take off to landing, even if it were a 2-3 hour flight.
 
I've taken up two people in the conquest who were in the same boat. I've let them come along on day trips and fly a little before picking up a clearance. Then it is a lot of autopilot time while I talk them through the "this switch does this and look what this cool box does" spiel. Accidentally scared one of them because we started picking up ice and his instructor had told him that was a good way to get dead.

Both said the biggest impression they were left with was how fast things happened compared to what they were used to.

I'll probably say the same thing when I snag a ride in a CJ4 that I'm hoping to get. :)
 
With enough money anything is possible. I had a student who was working on her multiengine rating. The light twin that she was learning in went away before she could be ready for the ride. Next thing I know, she bought herself a 737 type rating and they just tacked on the multiengine at the time of her rating.
 
James331 said:
Take the controls? You mean AP and YD engage?

I'd go fly a beaver before a PC12, I love the Pilatus, but she's not the most fun plane to fly.
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PC12 is a good plane, but I'm in agreement with James with regards to the PC12 not being the most fun. I'm the last guy to fly on AP but the pilatus just does such a good job it's hard not to use it. I do hand fly all my approaches though.
 
James_Dean said:
I've taken up two people in the conquest who were in the same boat. I've let them come along on day trips and fly a little before picking up a clearance. Then it is a lot of autopilot time while I talk them through the "this switch does this and look what this cool box does" spiel. Accidentally scared one of them because we started picking up ice and his instructor had told him that was a good way to get dead.

Both said the biggest impression they were left with was how fast things happened compared to what they were used to.

I'll probably say the same thing when I snag a ride in a CJ4 that I'm hoping to get. :)
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I really enjoyed the Conquest. I only have about 120 hours in it though...:sigh:
 
mscard88 said:
They made us demonstrate w/ the AP on in the sim. When I left 3 1/2 years ago we were encouraged to engage the AP at the minimum AP altitude, think it was 700' agl. I didn't and most of the old timers didn't, we hand flew it while it seemed the younger (ducking for incoming) pilots engaged it ASAP. Knew a few who fly the jet manually from take off to landing, even if it were a 2-3 hour flight.
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Single pilot IFR?
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
What does an "autopilot airplane" fly like? After the first few months in the PC-12, I hand flew it to altitude every single time, regardless of weather. Its a great hand-flying airplane. Its also interesting to see the difference in handling characteristics when its down low compared to it in the FL's. While I didnt have as much fun flying it as I did the diver driver E90, I still had plenty of fun - mostly doing STOL ops.

Even in the Level-D 737-800 sim, I was surprised at how much it flew just like any other airplane; pitch and power. I spent most of my time hand-flying the sim. My IP even made jokes about how he wanted to demonstrate certain maneuvers but knew I wouldnt let the autopilot fly it. I hand-flew that airplane up to FL400 @ 131k lbs. Sensitive? You bet. But, it was possible... at least in the simulator.

I went into that sim thinking airliners were something magical in regards to aerodynamics. I was truly surprised to find out that its just another airplane in its most basic form (just dont turn the YD off, lol). A fat, heavy airplane.

Hand fly more often. Flying is more enjoyable that way.
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Just didn't handle like the van I flew before, not the same roll rates and overall feel, the 12 was built from the ground up as a single pilot AP IFR ship.


mscard88 said:
121
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So not AP in lieu of a SIC?

As far as not using the autopilot, it's like these young kids and their fancy new "Phillips" screw heads and "electric screw drivers", when I need to put a screw in, I just laugh at them and bust out my wood handled flat head screw driver and do work, what a bunch of rookies!
 
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Bonchie said:
Does the OPer even have his PPL yet?

I'm not trying to kill his dreams, but he's getting way ahead of himself. Get your PPL done first, get your instrument, get several hundred hours of experience, get a few million in the bank, and then we'll talk about turboprops.
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And we wonder why people don't feel welcome to aviation. Jiminy....
 
hindsight2020 said:
He's not looking to fly for money. He just want to joyride some stick time for an hour or three. Recreational bucket list type of stuff. If I was a recreational private pilot I much rather pay for MIG or L39 time rather than some boring (to me) turboprop cruiser, but to each their own.
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Yeah, and "bucket list" flights are much easier to attain, it's just a matter of money. An hour in a P-51, an hour or two in an L39, all pretty easy to get so long as you have the benjamins in your bank account. And those experiences don't require the pilot to be anything more than a private pilot who just flies for the love of it.
 
James331 said:
Just didn't hand like the van I flew before, not the same roll rates and overall feel, the 12 was built from the ground up as a single pilot AP IFR ship.




So not AP in lieu of a SIC?

As far as not using the autopilot, it's like these young kids and their fancy new "Phillips" screw heads and "electric screw drivers", when I need to put a screw in, I just laugh at them and bust out my wood handled flat head screw driver and do work, what a bunch of rookies!
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Part 121 airlines, two pilots up front. Nothing to do with that anyway, company was "encouraging" use of the AP vs hand flying. I even had a line check once where the IP strongly suggested I use the AP flying departures. I replied it's suggested, not mandatory. He was po'd but I didn't care because I was right.
 
Ryan F. said:
One of my friends flew for Travolta! And Cruise at times. Interesting tales.

Actually, to the best of my knowledge both of those celebrities started in light piston aircraft like the rest of us, and moved their way up. I'm going from memory, but that's my recollection.
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I have been told the Cruise, Jolle, and some others can't fly with out a CFI on board... part of their studio contract.... any weight to this statement?
 
Doesn't Cruise have a D model Mustang? Single seater.
 
I do some 91 flying in an SR22 and I'm usually hand flying most of the flight. I like the challenge in hard IMC but I'll turn it on if I'm overwhelmed. In the jet we can turn it on as low as 600ft AGL. I'll usually hand fly up to 18K unless we have to do a complicated RNAV SID or the PM is getting overwhelmed.
 
Ventucky Red said:
I have been told the Cruise, Jolle, and some others can't fly with out a CFI on board... part of their studio contract.... any weight to this statement?
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I don't know. I could ask.
 
Ryan F. said:
Yeah, and "bucket list" flights are much easier to attain, it's just a matter of money. An hour in a P-51, an hour or two in an L39, all pretty easy to get so long as you have the benjamins in your bank account. And those experiences don't require the pilot to be anything more than a private pilot who just flies for the love of it.
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Yep, that is pretty much my situation. I got quotes from rental places and it's a lot more reasonable than expected. Again, I don't want a career in Aviation I just want to fly for fun. In order to fly a PC-12 do you need to get a complex and high performance endorsement to be legal?
 
I would also love to get some stick time in a beaver that is definitely on the list.
 
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