After PPL, then what, rental is expensive

An analysis of my logbook vs. the cruise speed of the respective aircraft reveals that each departure or arrival predictably adds 0.3 to the Hobbs meter. This leaves 0.4 for cruise on a round-trip which means you could go 42-44nm in a C172 at 105-110 knots. So I have arrived at the same numbers as other posts have.

The ground operations during your discovery flight might have been longer than normal due to the instructor explaining the procedures, and for someone used to getting in a car, turning a key, and going--it might have seemed even longer than actual.
 
Mustang67ford said:
The plane will be at a controlled airport. There is a closer non-controlled airport but CFI is changing airports. My goal was to get my PPL so I could simply fly as a hobby. Maybe fly to a different airport, take friends for rides to help split costs, etc, but it seems like I would barely get in the air and situated let alone be able to fly over checkpoints to another airport. It is a beechcraft sundowner I would be learning on and renting. My question for you, is if you are in the air in only 5 minutes, for a 1 hour flight rental, how far do you really get to go?

Also, ultralites are not for me.
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My question is why are you only limiting your flights to an hour? If we're talking post PPL training here, I'd rather fly once every 2 weeks for 2 hours than once a week for 1. Same money, but opens up the options and gets you more air time/traffic pattern ratio. Planes may rent by the hour, but that doesn't mean you can only rent them one hour at a time. :confused:
 
Oh, and FWIW I'll often go up just to practice landings, or maneuvers, stalls, whatever just to stay sharp. I own the plane and I'm not on a clock, yet every time I go up by myself just for fun I find that when I land I've done almost exactly 1.0 on the Hobbs. You can do a lot in an hour and not be rushing it.
 
StinkBug said:
My question is why are you only limiting your flights to an hour? If we're talking post PPL training here, I'd rather fly once every 2 weeks for 2 hours than once a week for 1. Same money, but opens up the options and gets you more air time/traffic pattern ratio. Planes may rent by the hour, but that doesn't mean you can only rent them one hour at a time. :confused:
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The hour was his budgetary limit, at $150. We don't know if that included CFI rate.(I think)
 
Mustang67ford said:
[...] Rental is $150 an hour. [...]
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If you find a place to rent a Cessna 150 / 152, $150 would buy you 1.5 - 1.75 hours. Another $50 - $100 / month would allow you to go on a short cross country every other weekend.

Frankly, though, my main concern is that you don't know what you want to do with a PPL. Are there place you want to see? Would you just like to be up in the air? Are you more interested in social events like fly-ins or pancake breakfasts? If none of this attracts you, flying is probably not the right sport for you.

Also, unless you live on a farm where can take off right behind it, even owning an ultralight is IMHO out of question - the hangar costs alone would eat up your budget, even in a cheaper area, and to haul it home after a every flight is nothing you want to do longer-term.
 
StinkBug said:
My question is why are you only limiting your flights to an hour? If we're talking post PPL training here, I'd rather fly once every 2 weeks for 2 hours than once a week for 1. Same money, but opens up the options and gets you more air time/traffic pattern ratio. Planes may rent by the hour, but that doesn't mean you can only rent them one hour at a time. :confused:
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Talking about after the PPL. Budget is the limiting factor. During PPL training, I would prefer to fly several hours a day straight til done.
 
German guy said:
If you find a place to rent a Cessna 150 / 152, $150 would buy you 1.5 - 1.75 hours. Another $50 - $100 / month would allow you to go on a short cross country every other weekend.

Frankly, though, my main concern is that you don't know what you want to do with a PPL. Are there place you want to see? Would you just like to be up in the air? Are you more interested in social events like fly-ins or pancake breakfasts? If none of this attracts you, flying is probably not the right sport for you.

Also, unless you live on a farm where can take off right behind it, even owning an ultralight is IMHO out of question - the hangar costs alone would eat up your budget, even in a cheaper area, and to haul it home after a every flight is nothing you want to do longer-term.
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I simply like flying and avation. Even just going to airports and watching the planes. I always wanted to fly and finally i would be able to afford the PPL. From what I have researched, I would eventually like to get to 250 hours and other ratings to get a commercial rating and maybe start to see some return. I know that is not a transport pilot rating, but a commercial rating does let you make money.

I and also in PA so with winter, flying would also be limited.

I know a farmer close to me that has his own runway and plane. There are also a couple older planes there that have not flown in years as they belong to other people that never fly them. I would like to maybe pursue getting one of those cheap and pay for overhauling it.
 
I never really thought about this much. I had this thread on my mind today and I was working on a 172. Had to go to another hanger for some parts at a airport I have a hanger at little over 40 mi away. Flew out of a class c airport so started engine, hot quick clearance and taxied to run up area about mile and some away. Did maybe 1 minute warm up and got clearance to take off. There weren't many people flying so didn't have to wait for any of this. I also taxi very fast so whole thing was maybe 10 min or less. Pushed the plane hard to destination and did straight downwind landing so I could save some time. Did what I needed to do to plane and did a downwind takeoff to save time again. Pushed plane hard again and got straight in back to the class c airport and extended my landing to get to the turnoff I wanted. Did fast taxi back to hanger and shut down. Had 1.3 on the Hobbs. I was little suprised it took that much time as I usually don't pay attention. However only had maybe .8 on engine time. Maybe answer is to find someone who bills on tach hours. I average flying hour per day about so never payed much attention before. Was kind of wake up though on fact that budgeting less than a two hour flight really won't get you far. I know people who only get 10 or so hours a year but love it.
 
I got my license on the Ohio River, starting in October. Winter is a great time to fly! Cold air makes more power from the engine and more lift from the wings. The best I saw was a breakfast run when my wife stayed home (it was 8° that morning), I was climbing well over 1000 feet per minute.

Just expect some bad winter weather. While training, I flew once each in Jan and Feb. snow on the ground, like driving, isn't a problem, but you don't want to fly in much falling snow and certainly not in any winter rain, sleet or hail.

Good luck! I also suggest taking lessons at the uncontrolled field near you, in a less expensive plane. Lessons are work, I was often pretty tired afterwards and an hours' drive each way would have been too much. (It's still too much for me. Your Mileage May Vary.)
 
In a good partnership situation you could fly a 150/152 for <$60 hr. If you are looking at "going on" to commercial and such, then 150/152 starts making you money once you get your CFI.
 
Mustang67ford said:
I simply like flying and avation. Even just going to airports and watching the planes. I always wanted to fly and finally i would be able to afford the PPL.
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This is what I was planning on asking you. If you have had the itch, then go for it. That's the only way to scratch it, and it will get worse the older you get.

Anyways, if you read the various threads, you will find lots of people got their license, then abandoned aviation for 10-20 years, then came back to it. Life happens. You only live once.
 
Download Flightgear (free flight simulator), it doesn't get any cheaper than that.
 
teejayevans said:
Download Flightgear (free flight simulator), it doesn't get any cheaper than that.
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They have a pretty good 172 (P model), but it's really different from actually flying. Way too easy to spot stuff, even with the haze they put on everything.
 
For the first 10 years I had my private, I was the king of maintaining proficiency on a shoestring. I averaged a 45 minute flight every three weeks. Those flights were split between pattern work, maneuvers, and 1/2 short cross countries(teaming up with a friend). About half of the pattern and XC flights were at night. In addition to that, I did sightseeing flights that split costs with friends, and a flight here and there that my folks picked the tab up on. As such, I flew about 15-18 hours a year but remained reasonably proficient.
 
Mustang67ford said:
I simply like flying and avation. Even just going to airports and watching the planes. I always wanted to fly and finally i would be able to afford the PPL. From what I have researched, I would eventually like to get to 250 hours and other ratings to get a commercial rating and maybe start to see some return. I know that is not a transport pilot rating, but a commercial rating does let you make money.

I and also in PA so with winter, flying would also be limited.

I know a farmer close to me that has his own runway and plane. There are also a couple older planes there that have not flown in years as they belong to other people that never fly them. I would like to maybe pursue getting one of those cheap and pay for overhauling it.
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Getting one of those cheap.....is probably the most expensive way you can get into flying. If they sit, and are not taken care of, not flown, left outside, your asking for big trouble. Buy the nicest airplane you can afford, in your case an 85 hp champ with a starter, would be excellent. Learn to fly it WELL, have some fun. Maybe three hundred hours later, if it's a nice one, sell it and get something faster, etc. Or keep it if your just going to go get a hamburger. I know a retired airline captain that has one and has flown it for eight- ten years. First find a hangar for rent. Don't leave it outside! 22-26 grand for a decent champ. 26-32 for a stunner.
 
Options:

Suck it up and pay when you rent. That's just what it costs.

Flying club where you pay dues / initiation, but get a lower hourly rate

Partnership where you pay big up front, lots each month for insurance / hangar, but your marginal cost per hour is lower.

Single ownership - pay the most up front and per month and having spent all that money, you have to fly more to make it worthwhile.

What you own / rent will impact the cost.

Fast, loaded, cross country machine?

POS Experimental puddle jumper? (what I own)

You have to decide what you want, and what you are willing to pay for it.
 
DFH65 said:
Personally I love to fly. I don't care if it's in someone else's plane, I have several pilot friends that like someone to go with them and I ALWAYS make myself available. I volunteer at a warplane museum and ride there whenever I can. Hec I even like flying commercial. If it gets me off the ground and it is relatively safe I am in.

In an hour you can do 9 or so touch and goes (uncontrolled). You can fly to an airport 30-40 miles away and back maybe for a fly in breakfast. Fly to an airshow. Giving a 20 minute ride to folks new to general aviation is plenty long enough for most people. Lots of things to do. Personally I love just working in the pattern.
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:yes:
 
Mustang67ford said:
Talking about after the PPL. Budget is the limiting factor. During PPL training, I would prefer to fly several hours a day straight til done.
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You seem to have missed my point. Flying twice as far, half as often costs the exact same dollars.
 
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