Advice, please -- Whom Shall We Sue? (Non-Av)

[Ghery]

I've been "walked" many times, but in all cases the hotel that was full found me another room and paid for it themselves.

Once for me. And that was just one of the problems with that particular trip. The manager came out before I could get out of the cab and said they had no rooms due to a computer problem. He paid for the cab to take me down the street to another property and paid for that room.

 

[jesse]

This opens up another opportunity to make a point: You will ALWAYS get a better deal than Expedia can offer, simply by calling the hotel and asking for the owner or manager. Explain to him that you are about to book on-line, and were wondering if you could get a better deal.

If he has a brain in his head, he will offer you a better deal. This is because hotels must pay Expedia a 15% commission. I would GLADLY give you a 10% lower rate than you were going to pay Expedia, and pocket the 5% savings.

I've tried that many many times over the years and it has *never* worked. I've literally had to book the lower rate on my phone right in front of them and then wait for them to get the confirmation. It makes no sense.

There are times where the Expedia price is literally half of what they want at the front desk and they simply won't negotiate.

 

[pilot_dude]

I'm talking in a group of friends, and trying to explain how my industry works. Hotel chains LAUGH about the way they screw their guests. I know, because I have attended the lodging meetings, and had drinks with 'em.

So, if you like magnetic swipe key cards (that don't work), desk staff that know nothing about their area (and couldn't care less), thawed-out frozen muffins and stale cereal, served until 9:30 AM (if you're lucky) in a room with a bunch of guys who haven't taken a shower yet, and rooms that have all the style and personality of a hospital waiting room (but have lobbies that are encased in marble and brass), stay at chain motels.

If you'd like something better, for less money than they will charge you, stay with us. It's no different than trying to find a good, non-chain restaurant. To find the gems, you have to look harder -- but it's usually worth it.

This post causes me to believe you know little about the biz in which you purport to know much.

 

[ScottM]

Nope. This is a national problem. It was even worse in Iowa than it is here.

(We are the only hotel on the island that does not overbook by 15%, and then tell anyone who shows up later -- after all the rooms are gone -- to go stuff it, regardless of whether or not they have a "guaranteed" reservation.)

It's a stupid, unethical practice that I am embarrassed to say is widespread in my industry.

It's exceedingly rare for independent hoteliers to overbook, in my experience.

I am having trouble seeing much consistency in your statements.

 

[wabower]

I am having trouble seeing much consistency in your statements.

Not to worry, it's no big deal. In a post a couple weeks ago Jay said he's not in it for the money.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Exceedingly low standards, but, yes, standards.

But you're right -- their website specials are their attempt at getting around the insanely high fees the on-line booking agents are now charging.

So....put your price on the first page of your web site. It says "rooms from $54" a couple of pages in your web site. But I had to look for it.

I'm talking in a group of friends, and trying to explain how my industry works. Hotel chains LAUGH about the way they screw their guests. I know, because I have attended the lodging meetings, and had drinks with 'em.

So, if you like magnetic swipe key cards (that don't work), desk staff that know nothing about their area (and couldn't care less), thawed-out frozen muffins and stale cereal, served until 9:30 AM (if you're lucky) in a room with a bunch of guys who haven't taken a shower yet, and rooms that have all the style and personality of a hospital waiting room (but have lobbies that are encased in marble and brass), stay at chain motels.

If you'd like something better, for less money than they will charge you, stay with us. It's no different than trying to find a good, non-chain restaurant. To find the gems, you have to look harder -- but it's usually worth it.

Wow...To echo an earlier post...do you REALLY know your market?!




Where shall I begin?

• You are in an overlapping, but different market segment than the chains. You are competing for some of the same customers, but you do have different customers than the chains. Knocking the chains does you no real service.
• I know my muffins are reheated. I see the Sysco truck at these hotels (and a large number of restaurants too). I don't have to take my valuable time to look for breakfast. I don't expect much, but I am working. I better be on the road by 9:30- either at the trade show, conference, customer, or going on the next segment of my trip, or my boss will want to know the reason why.

What a business traveler needs:

• No bedbugs. We want need a clean room. Certain chains are noted for being...well...consistantly clean.
• Good computer communications (WiFi) without an extra charge. We need to submit reports and share information with our colleagues quickly. I had to spend a Sunday in the UK earlier this year programming a database in the home office because out IT department did something...good WiFi was essential
• Consistancy between locations- and this is what some of the chains do very well, and you can't because you have one location. I know some chains will work well, and some don't. I really can't research any hotel with a single location to see if it is good or not- there's too much conflicting information, and I can't take the time to sort it our for the number of business trips I take. Look at these reviews: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g56476-d678111-Reviews-Harbor_Inn-Port_Aransas_Texas.html ; some are good, some aren't. If I were taking a vacation, I'd ask here on POA for hotel suggestions.
• Make it easy for me...I know you offer breakfast. Again, I had to go 2 levels in your web page to find that out. The chains I mentioned offer breakfast, that's one less item per day I need to place on an expense report. One less receipt per day to lose.
• It's very easy to find a reasonable chain. My sales reps will tell me where to stay (or not stay). We all know certain chains are consistantly reasonable- not bad, not great either. But they get the job done and we won't get questioned by accounting for staying at them.

As for magnetic keys- I can see they aren't as reliable as real keys. OTOH, I've found them to work reasonably well, even at shore hotels. I can lose one and it's not such a problem to replace. The 2 times I lost a key the hotels just programmed me a new one. If I lost your key, I'd be thinking I owed you a locksmith fee.




As for your original problem about the no-shows and Expedia, look back to some of the good advice you got...

• Read your Expedia contract carefully and make sure you understand what you can do or can't do.
• Someone suggested you PM them- do so if you haven't as it sounds like they know what's up
• Get good legal representation if it won't cost you more than the money you'll keep.

 

[dmspilot]

What would you consider to be a "confirmed" reservation, and how should it differ from "guaranteed"?

I explained...guaranteed is guaranteed. Confirmed is not, and they will only hold the room under the specified conditions, e.g. until 6pm. As someone else said, guarnteed requires a credit card, and confirmed doesn't.

The difference between those two "types" exists only in the warped world of chain motels. In our world, a reservation is exactly what the word means -- it's a room that is reserved only for you, and we will hold it for you regardless of your arrival time.

Sorry, I thought it was a standard industry-wide term. So if you have only one type of reservation, do your customers still have to pay if they don't show up? If so, wouldn't that be like paying for food at a restaurant you made a reservation for but didn't end up eating at?

I still see posts from people saying "I've been walked" and "I've never been walked" but no one says what type of reservation they had. So there is still ambiguity here.

 

[RotorAndWing]

This post causes me to believe you know little about the biz in which you purport to know much.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Not to worry, it's no big deal. In a post a couple weeks ago Jay said he's not in it for the money.

The answer I give is one they usually don't understand, but it's really true: We NEVER got into the hotel business because we wanted to make money.

We NEVER got into the hotel business because we're even all that interested in hotels.

We got into the business because we wanted to hang out with interesting pilots from all over the world.

 

[Maxmosbey]

I'm talking in a group of friends, and trying to explain how my industry works. Hotel chains LAUGH about the way they screw their guests. I know, because I have attended the lodging meetings, and had drinks with 'em.

So, if you like magnetic swipe key cards (that don't work), desk staff that know nothing about their area (and couldn't care less), thawed-out frozen muffins and stale cereal, served until 9:30 AM (if you're lucky) in a room with a bunch of guys who haven't taken a shower yet, and rooms that have all the style and personality of a hospital waiting room (but have lobbies that are encased in marble and brass), stay at chain motels.

If you'd like something better, for less money than they will charge you, stay with us. It's no different than trying to find a good, non-chain restaurant. To find the gems, you have to look harder -- but it's usually worth it.

OK jay, fine. I understand why you hate the chains. They are your competition, and you are obviously an expert at badmouthing your competition. But no matter how much you hate them, you are not going to convince me that I have had a bad experience with them, when I haven't. I just came back from California. I booked three nights at a motel in San Jose that was not a chain, Nice hotel. It was clean. It was fine. But it wasn't paradise. It was a dated old motel that was adequate for three nights. To say that it is "better" than the Holiday Inn Express across the street, because they try harder isn't cutting it with me. My cousin recommended the one that we stayed at because he thought that he was saving us a few bucks. I wish that we had stayed across the street, but we didn't. Sorry, I think you are blowing smoke.

 

[Amelia]

There's something to be said for both chains and local mom & pop hostelries. If I'm on vacation, I'll usually look for a nice B&B or locally-owned place just for the fun of a different scene, perhaps the chance to interact with warmly hospitable proprietors on some level- I always appreciate it when they meet us with iced-tea and cookies, and sit on the front porch to tell us about their part of the world. Many pride themselves on their pretty antiques, their decor with a thoughtful personal touch, or other special amenities- canoes, bicycles, etc. One B&B had a lovely crystal decanter of sherry and dark chocolates on the bureau- what a nice nightcap that was after a stressful spell negotiating Boston's one-way asphalt jungle. We've been rocked to sleep on several pretty boat/b&bs. Several have had gardens that were a joy to explore by early morning, and some provided truly memorable breakfasts. Some have had the most luxurious sheets I've ever slid between, down comforters and pillows, fine breakfast and polished silver, often for less than the Holiday Inn Express. Glorious. Have even stayed in private homes at both Oshkosh and Lakeland for airshows, which were very good experiences. Even the occasional Youth Hostel has been wonderful- and a few not so much.

Once or twice in all those decades, I've turned around and walked out, as I'm "allergic" to cat pee, cigarette smoke, dangling fixtures, and roaches. (For which I got cussed out once. An enormous cockroach ran over my foot as our Williamsburg host showed us a tiny bedroom reeking of smoke, and grubby bath down the hall. I made our excuses and departed to a barrage of profanity. Glad that guy didn't already have my credit card!

The only motel in Panacea, Florida required payment before seeing the room, which can most charitably be described as 'utterly, sickeningly appalling.' Made Hampton look really, really attractive. If my elderly mother hadn't insisted she couldn't go another step, I'd have forfeited my $65 and driven another hour to spotless chain-hotel comfort.

If I'm on a business trip, I confess, I'll often go for "clean, predictable, quiet privacy with desk" of a well-known chain, because I don't care to take a chance on "quaint"-- with uncomfortable bed, crabby, intrusive or dictatorial hoteliers, iffy internet, or poor maintenance.

Locally-owned motels and B&Bs surely have some real advantages over the Hiltons and Sheratons. Primary among them is no nickel and diming. It really irritates me to pay $14 for internet access, $2 per local phone call, a buck for the fellow who insists on carrying my single carry-on bag and showing me where the perfectly obvious light-switch is, and continental breakfast is an extra $10, on top of that.

For my money, the best thing a hotel has going for is a great attitude. Make it clear I'm a valued guest rather than an imposition or a sheep to be fleeced. Make me glad I came, and I'll tell others.

 

[Henning]

I've been "walked" many times, but in all cases the hotel that was full found me another room and paid for it themselves.

That's not being "walked", that's being "chauffeured". Being walked is when the say "Sorry, bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out."

 

[Matthew]

I got 'walked' once - went to check in, the manager said "Sorry sir, we are unable to give you your room." Or something like that. I said, "You're KILLing me! What do you mean, no room?" He said, "Sir, we are having a maintenance issue with one wing." Then he walked away to make a call or something. So I started giving the assistant mgr a hard time. I wasn't really mad about the room - I just didn't want to miss an opportunity to have some fun. So I said, "Maintenace? What kind of an excuse is that? You guys need to work on that story, nobody will believe you." The assistant mgr looked around to make sure the coast was clear, then whispered "We had an 'infestation'." That was all I needed to hear, I headed for the door in a hurry. I got put up in a competing hotel - no problem.

 

[ron22]

I have been "walked" once from a high end chain. They did give me a free room on the other end of town. But we went from walking distance to tourist stuff to 30 min drive. What did I do about it? I just told everyone I knew about what happend.
Also had a problem with someone here favorite hotel chain. During stay they wanted us to pack up every thing by 11am and wait untill 3pm to move to a different room. They booked the room we were in as part of a wedding party.

As for calling and asking for a lower price. I am with Jesse I have never had luck with this anywere chain or not.

As for chains or local it is hit or miss with me. It all depends on were we are going and if we are with others. Wife and I alone we are willing to try the small local place more often.

For Jay question I would "eat" the cost of the 4 rooms and drop it. Then decide if I want to do bussines with Expedia.

 

[Jay Honeck]

How do you recomend we do that? How do you know if a hotel is good or not if we know nothing about it? Do you have an independent hotel association? Is there a secret code or handshake? Send me the decoder ring, and I'll give it a whirl!

Funny you should ask that. Mary and I were just talking about that tonight at dinner.

I haven't had time to research it lately -- we've been a wee-bit busy -- but there was a "boutique hotel association" that was trying to get off the ground a few years ago. I'm gonna have to check into that, because the industry truly needs such a thing.

As it stands now, you have to take a chance -- just as you would when you walk into "Frank's Italian Restaurant", or the "Venetian Hot Plate" -- two of the greatest restaurants in Texas.

 

[Jay Honeck]

What is wrong with magnetic swipe keys? I prefer them to physical keys because they are easier to carry and it isn't so much of an issue if you misplace them.

Other than the fact that they don't work half the time, they are great.

Magnetic swipe keys were invented for the hotel industry's convenience -- not yours.

Recently we had a choice of staying "near the airport where most pilots stay" or "in town within walking distance of everything". I chose the in town option because we were there for two nights and this was a resort area. The location was great. The rooms were in a remodeled old house. The bathroom was extremely tiny with no counter. There was also no desk and only a very small TV in the room although there was an antique dresser and a four-poster bed which was high enough that it needed a step. The keys were also conventional. The breakfast didn't start until 0830 which didn't help us much since that's about the time we were supposed to show at the airport the last day. The day we were able to have breakfast there the homemade blueberry muffins were better than the store-bought kind. There was also a nice front porch outside our rooms where we ate some sandwiches we bought for lunch. All in all it was a nice change of pace but I wouldn't want to stay in a place like that all the time.

Staying in an independent, boutique hotel is always more interesting -- and variable -- than the chains. That's because the innkeeper is free to do things his or her way, not the corporate way.

Some people feel more comfortable shopping at Walmart, no matter what city they're in. There's nothing wrong with that, but I prefer to keep things more interesting and fun.

 

[denverpilot]

I still see posts from people saying "I've been walked" and "I've never been walked" but no one says what type of reservation they had. So there is still ambiguity here.

My two "walks" were with credit card provided to the hotels involved -- the so-called "rock solid" reservations.

Percentage-wise, I've had hundreds of hotel stays for business in the past. So it wasn't exactly a huge number of the total reservations.

I read the posts saying that business travelers want consistency and it reminded me why I got out of that crud.

Waking up in a different city in a Courtyard by Mariott where you knew by the room number where the room was before the speech about "up the elevator to the left" got old.

The only thing worse than the travel was the expense reports and floating a couple thousand bucks to the company all the time.

It was a means to an end.

 

[Jay Honeck]

OK, I get that you're not a fan of hotel chains. When we travel, we usually look for a Holiday Inn Express. Why? We know exactly what to expect. We have never once had a substandard room, and the breakfast -- while not as good as we'd get at home -- is hot, included in the price, and available. We've tried other chains and quality has been hit or miss. Some are great, some are crap. I don't care how nice Joe's Hotel claims to be on their web site, and I don't care how nice Joe himself says it is... you never know until you check in.

Chain motels have a place. When I'm rolling down the freeway, I'm in the middle of nowhere, and am really, really tired, I will stay at a Fairfield Inn. That's Marriott's bottom of the line chain, and they do an acceptable job.

Well, okay, my son almost died from inhaling bromine from their illegal hot tub in Racine, WI, and the water was kinda green in Michigan -- but that's what you get sometimes.

When I'm on vacation, and I'm spending a few days, the LAST thing I want is to wake up in a hotel room that looks just like home -- or any of 5,000 other hotel rooms. I want something with personality, and service.

That's what we're endeavoring to create here on the island. We're about a third of the way done with remodeling the rooms, all the rooms are redecorated, the pool and hot tub are new, all rooms have new HDTVs and DVD players, etc. We are almost ready for prime time.

Upgrading a motel is like changing the tires without stopping the car, and it's even tougher when you're sold out every weekend for months on end.

So I got a little long winded, but there is a point I'm making. If we ever go to your little island, I'll book a room with you -- because I know of you through here. And if we hear first hand from friends we trust of a place they stayed, we'll consider staying there. But when we travel, I'm not inclined to spend hours trying to determine if there's a well run, well maintained independent hotel with decent rates, then hoping the information I got is correct and current.

I look at it this way: I can eat at Applebee's in every town we fly into, and be assured of a certain level of food and service. Or, I can take a chance and occasionally get crappy food.

Mary and I never, EVER eat at chain restaurants when we travel. Twice a week we fly into a new Texas town, and ask the FBO to recommend a LOCALLY OWNED and operated restaurant. I am dismayed how many blank stares we get in return -- but most of the time we end up at the most marvelous restaurants, eating the most amazing food.

It's what makes traveling fun!

If I were in your position, I'd take a good hard look at not taking any business from Expedia again. You say you got 18% of your bookings from them. OK... are you at capacity? Could you overbook if you chose to? Are you turning away business, and if so how much? If you pull the plug on Expedia, will you actually LOSE 18% of your business, or will you simply get those reservations from somewhere else? That's a question only you can answer. If Expedia won't give you information to verify the customer, AND won't stand behind the reservation in any way, you either accept the risk or tell them where to stuff it. You have to decide what it's worth to you.

Yep, that's the choice we have to make tomorrow.

And we will not overbook, no matter what.

 

[jesse]

Other than the fact that they don't work half the time, they are great.

Magnetic swipe keys were invented for the hotel industry's convenience -- not yours.

I've been to a lot of hotels all over the country and I can't say I've ever had an issue with magnetic keys. I *greatly* prefer them.

I think you are greatly exaggerating the issues they cause for guests. A properly working system works great. I can't remember the last time it didn't get me into a room without issue. I greatly prefer the security benefits.

If a guest loses a key do you re-key the lock? If a hotel staff worker loses the master do you re-key all of them? If you don't - the security of your hotel is not acceptable IMO.

 

[Jay Honeck]

I've tried that many many times over the years and it has *never* worked. I've literally had to book the lower rate on my phone right in front of them and then wait for them to get the confirmation. It makes no sense.

There are times where the Expedia price is literally half of what they want at the front desk and they simply won't negotiate.

You were simply talking to the wrong guy/gal. The person who pays the bills (AKA: ME) would gladly give you the savings, rather than pay Expedia.

There are so many examples (like this) of stupidity in hotel management, it astounds me that so many hotels succeed.

 

[Jay Honeck]

I am having trouble seeing much consistency in your statements.

No surprise, there.

 

[Jay Honeck]

So....put your price on the first page of your web site. It says "rooms from $54" a couple of pages in your web site. But I had to look for it.

Prices in a hotel at a vacation destination change DAILY.

In Iowa, we literally had three prices, year 'round. It was so much easier.

Here on the island, our prices range from $59.95 -- with the second night thrown in FREE (in the off-off-season) to $179.95 -- for the SAME, EXACT ROOM.

After being in Iowa for 9 years, we still find this to be bizarre, and took us a while to figure it out. Our desk staff literally needs a decoder ring to determine what today's price is -- but that's just the nature of the beast.

Wow...To echo an earlier post...do you REALLY know your market?!

Well, it's a work in progress -- but, yeah, I think we've got this business pretty well on rails, after 9 years. And this market is pretty simple, compared to Iowa. There, we had three types of guests: Business, vacation, and long term. Here, it's all vacation, with a smattering of Winter Texans (Northerners who winter on the island) -- and that's it.

Where shall I begin?

You are in an overlapping, but different market segment than the chains. You are competing for some of the same customers, but you do have different customers than the chains. Knocking the chains does you no real service.

That's like saying hating Walmart is counterproductive. Although you're probably right -- and I still occasionally shop there -- I hate the experience, and I hate what Walmart has done to shopping in America.

Same goes for the chain motels and restaurants. The Walmartification of America has really diminished the joy of traveling, IMHO.

[*]I know my muffins are reheated. I see the Sysco truck at these hotels (and a large number of restaurants too).

And you find that to be okay? Alrighty then.

We place our order at our local bakery each night. They bake it for us tonight, and we pick it up at 6 AM. It's on our guest's doorstep, right outside their door, by 7 AM -- along with a pot of Wolfgang Puck coffee, an assortment of teas, fruit, juice, and the morning paper.

That's what "service" means. Anything less...is unacceptable.

[/LIST]What a business traveler needs:

• No bedbugs. We want need a clean room. Certain chains are noted for being...well...consistantly clean.
• Good computer communications (WiFi) without an extra charge. We need to submit reports and share information with our colleagues quickly. I had to spend a Sunday in the UK earlier this year programming a database in the home office because out IT department did something...good WiFi was essential
• Consistancy between locations- and this is what some of the chains do very well, and you can't because you have one location. I know some chains will work well, and some don't. I really can't research any hotel with a single location to see if it is good or not- there's too much conflicting information, and I can't take the time to sort it our for the number of business trips I take.

• 
  
  If I were doing the kind of traveling you're stuck with, I would stay in a chain hotel, too. Work travel isn't a treat -- it's work. For work travel, there's no room for variability or error -- and the Walmart Motel works just fine.
  
  For "fun travel", though, I'd take some chances. It's worth it!
  
  

  [*]Make it easy for me...I know you offer breakfast. Again, I had to go 2 levels in your web page to find that out. The chains I mentioned offer breakfast, that's one less item per day I need to place on an expense report. One less receipt per day to lose.

  
  One thing I've learned is that it's impossible to put everything on the first page of the website. Right now, I've got our "Free nights for veterans" on the front page "teaser" -- but normally it says something about our delivered breakfast.
  
  

  As for magnetic keys- I can see they aren't as reliable as real keys. OTOH, I've found them to work reasonably well, even at shore hotels. I can lose one and it's not such a problem to replace. The 2 times I lost a key the hotels just programmed me a new one. If I lost your key, I'd be thinking I owed you a locksmith fee.

  
  Yep, you'd be right.
  
  However, when you come back from the bars at 2 AM, and the salt water mist has been blowing in off the Gulf, you can rest assured that you will be able to get into your room at our hotel. At HIE, not so much...
  
  

  As for your original problem about the no-shows and Expedia, look back to some of the good advice you got...
  

  • Read your Expedia contract carefully and make sure you understand what you can do or can't do.

  • 
    
    Most hotels don't contract directly with Expedia. We contract with an intermediary (TravelClick and GenaRes are two examples) -- who then make sure that we are displayed on ALL on-line booking engines.
    
    Internet booking is an entire industry that barely existed when we opened our first hotel 9 years ago, and it's constantly changing. Right now, it's a pretty sketchy industry, with LOTS of problems. The one I've shared with y'all is just one of many.

 

[Jay Honeck]

My two "walks" were with credit card provided to the hotels involved -- the so-called "rock solid" reservations.

Percentage-wise, I've had hundreds of hotel stays for business in the past. So it wasn't exactly a huge number of the total reservations.

I read the posts saying that business travelers want consistency and it reminded me why I got out of that crud.

Waking up in a different city in a Courtyard by Mariott where you knew by the room number where the room was before the speech about "up the elevator to the left" got old.

The only thing worse than the travel was the expense reports and floating a couple thousand bucks to the company all the time.

It was a means to an end.

The existence you -- and others -- describe is so bleak, I honestly don't blame y'all for looking for the consistency of chain motels.

 

[ScottM]

No surprise, there.

Really? You know you were being inconsistent?

BTW I stay often in hotels. At least twice a month and I have never seen failures of the magnetic cards anywhere near 50%. On a rare occasion I will get one that is not programmed, but since they hand me two the other will work. I like the magnetic cards because of the extra security they provide. Physical keys can be copied, lost and then maliciously used. I am sure hotels are not re-keying locks when a key is lost either.

I also think that you really may only understand a very small part of the motel market. You mention that there was a boutique hotel association trying to get off going a couple of years back. Well I know that there has been one for a while. I use it to find new and interesting hotels, but it is an upscale association. It lists properties like the Rittenhouse in Philly, The Breakers in Palm Beach and the Metropolitan in Vancouver. These are not the type of hotel that I think you are trying to be. These are real luxury places where you are trying to cater to more of a budget traveler. This association is probably not for you.

I stay at large chains. Hilton, Hyatts, Intercontinentals, etc. around the globe. I can count on them to be consistent with good food, Internet, clean, will hold my room with a credit card and not have surely owners walking around complaining about the guests.

The more economical chains seem to be your local competition. Looking at Trip Advisor they are winning the market right now as they hold most of the top spots and TA is ranking your property as 12th out of 18 rated. Seems to me that in order to improve your success that you want to stop berating those who are staying at the chains and attract them to your property. You do that by finding out what they need, implementing that and then marketing to them. But if your goal is to truly not be in it for the money, just keep doing what you are doing and you can watch people drive by in your crew car to other properties. But what do I know, I only stay in a hotel 2 to 3 times a month and have been doing that for 22 years. I have no idea what a hotel customer would want

 

[wanttaja]

Other than the fact that they don't work half the time, they are great.

Magnetic swipe keys were invented for the hotel industry's convenience -- not yours.

OTOH, I stayed in a hotel a couple of weeks back (not in the US) that used old-fashioned skeleton keys. Cute...but once you were in the room, if you wanted out, you had to thread the key through the lock before turning it. "Thread" as in inserting the key dead level and straight and pushing it through all the way (if the key was offset, it went into the nether regions of the door and didn't do the lock). Made me miss the kind of lock that let one turn the handle and leave in a hurry in case there was a fire....


Ron Wanttaja

 

[wsuffa]

If only there were a US version of this independent hotel association. I've yet to have a bad stay at any of the hotels I've visited, and some were outstanding (Chateau d'Etoges comes to mind, complete with the moat).

There used to be an association/booking engine for B&Bs here in the US - I haven't looked lately, but many of the B&Bs listed were good.

I prefer good independent hotels for leisure travel - I find many of the independents in Europe to be better at supporting business travel than most of the independents in the US. For business travel, having access to services (reliable internet, business center with printer (where I don't need to mess with the front desk), restaurant, rrom service lounges, 24 hour desk, etc) is important - and many independents just don't fill that need.

 

[Henning]

Once for me. And that was just one of the problems with that particular trip. The manager came out before I could get out of the cab and said they had no rooms due to a computer problem. He paid for the cab to take me down the street to another property and paid for that room.

Again, that is not being "walked", at least not in my book. He went above and beyond to honor his obligation. You cannot complain about that and "walked" is a term of complaint. You should have a word of compliment. You ended up with a free room and ride.

 

[RotorAndWing]

I've been to a lot of hotels all over the country and I can't say I've ever had an issue with magnetic keys.

Same here. I travel extensively and rarely had issues with the magnetic key either.

 

[Henning]

Other than the fact that they don't work half the time, they are great.

Magnetic swipe keys were invented for the hotel industry's convenience -- not yours.

Jay, I agree with you on everything but this. I do not want to be responsible for or have to carry your damned key. If it ain't a flat piece of plastic, Ving Cards are perfectly acceptable, cheap and easy to replace and recode if you have trouble with the strip/chip units. Don't hand me some key on a hotel tag....

Personally my observance of the failure of the mag card units even in severe climate is no worse than 1 in 50. It's rare that I can't make it work in a few tries.

Oh, the cheap plastic programmable cards are also advertising as the leave the property carrying your brand.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Prices in a hotel at a vacation destination change DAILY.

In Iowa, we literally had three prices, year 'round. It was so much easier.

Here on the island, our prices range from $59.95 -- with the second night thrown in FREE (in the off-off-season) to $179.95 -- for the SAME, EXACT ROOM.

So put it on the main page of your web site. Not 2 or 3 pages down.

After being in Iowa for 9 years, we still find this to be bizarre, and took us a while to figure it out. Our desk staff literally needs a decoder ring to determine what today's price is -- but that's just the nature of the beast.

After putting today's price on the main page of your web site, make your web page your home page for your staff. Or just tape the price to the computer monitor.

That's like saying hating Walmart is counterproductive. Although you're probably right -- and I still occasionally shop there -- I hate the experience, and I hate what Walmart has done to shopping in America.

Same goes for the chain motels and restaurants. The Walmartification of America has really diminished the joy of traveling, IMHO.

It is counter-productive to hate the chains or walmart. It is more productive to do something to make people visit your business.

And you find that to be okay? Alrighty then.

Jay- you don't get it. I'm not in any chain room for long, and the chains have their place. As was said earlier, shaming you customers for where they stay on the job really doesn't help you. Honestly, it has the opposite effect.

We place our order at our local bakery each night. They bake it for us tonight, and we pick it up at 6 AM. It's on our guest's doorstep, right outside their door, by 7 AM -- along with a pot of Wolfgang Puck coffee, an assortment of teas, fruit, juice, and the morning paper.

That's what "service" means. Anything less...is unacceptable.

And this is what you need for your market segment. The chains cover a different albiet overlapping segment.

If I were doing the kind of traveling you're stuck with, I would stay in a chain hotel, too. Work travel isn't a treat -- it's work. For work travel, there's no room for variability or error -- and the Walmart Motel works just fine.

For "fun travel", though, I'd take some chances. It's worth it!

Maybe you do get it.

One thing I've learned is that it's impossible to put everything on the first page of the website. Right now, I've got our "Free nights for veterans" on the front page "teaser" -- but normally it says something about our delivered breakfast.

I did see a lot of empty space to the right of the buttons.

However, when you come back from the bars at 2 AM, and the salt water mist has been blowing in off the Gulf, you can rest assured that you will be able to get into your room at our hotel. At HIE, not so much...

Jay- I've not had a problem when I've stayed in Coastal Florida last year (on a Gulf coast barrier island). Or a hotel right on Waikiki Beach. Or another in Atlantic City. I don't see what brand hotel has to do with how well a magnetic lock works.

Most hotels don't contract directly with Expedia. We contract with an intermediary (TravelClick and GenaRes are two examples) -- who then make sure that we are displayed on ALL on-line booking engines.

Internet booking is an entire industry that barely existed when we opened our first hotel 9 years ago, and it's constantly changing. Right now, it's a pretty sketchy industry, with LOTS of problems. The one I've shared with y'all is just one of many.

So the advice given you doesn't apply?

 

[astanley]

Same here. I travel extensively and rarely had issues with the magnetic key either.

All of my key card issues are self-induced: putting my key next to my cellphone, which has a powerful enough magnet in the speakerphone to mess with the flimsy mag stripe.

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Matthew]

I've had enough mag-card failures. I usually get multiple cards, since I mainly travel with family, so 2 or 3 or 4 cards is normal. Because of that, our failure rate may be higher than average. I'd say we have about 1/3 chance that one of those cards won't work between checking-in and getting to our room for the first time. Worst experience was when we got two keys, took the elevator to the 7th floor, neither key worked. Went back down to the lobby (leaving my wife, kids, and luggage in the hallway), got two new keys, went back to the room, and neither worked. Went BACK to the lobby, told the lady at the desk that next time I was going to call and ask her to come up herself. She remade another set, tested them, handed them to me, I got back upstairs, and only one of the keys worked.

 

[wsuffa]

All of my key card issues are self-induced: putting my key next to my cellphone, which has a powerful enough magnet in the speakerphone to mess with the flimsy mag stripe.

Cheers,

-Andrew

Most of mine are for that reason (why RIM thought it would be a good idea to use magnets beats me..... but that's another story...), but I do occasionally run into issues with improper programming or bad swipe units (usually ones outdoor in parking garages).

 

[Everskyward]

Other than the fact that they don't work half the time, they are great.

Magnetic swipe keys were invented for the hotel industry's convenience -- not yours.

They may have been invented for the hotel industry's convenience but I find them to be convenient too. I rarely have problems and when I do it's not hard to correct. The hotel chains have 24-hour staff who can reprogram the key.

Staying in an independent, boutique hotel is always more interesting -- and variable -- than the chains. That's because the innkeeper is free to do things his or her way, not the corporate way.

Some people feel more comfortable shopping at Walmart, no matter what city they're in. There's nothing wrong with that, but I prefer to keep things more interesting and fun.

Maybe that's what you prefer but if you would listen to what people are trying to tell you in this thread, that's not what many people prefer for business travel. They are not necessarily looking for interesting and fun especially if they need to put in a lot of effort which may or may not be successful. My hotel stays are probably close to 95% business. As a group, I know the pilots I work with prefer hotels which have free internet and free breakfast. Other things they like are flat-screen TVs with many channel choices since they have them on from the time they check in to the time they check out (don't include me in that group), refrigerator and microwave. I prefer to have a desk and good lighting. Many people also like hotel points which they use when they go on vacation with their families. Obviously boutique hotels do not honor these points.

I know you have very strong ideas about what you prefer but you can't assume other people feel the same way.

 

[gkainz]

I think it's kind of sad to see all the crap that Jay's getting handed on this. He's building another aviation-themed hotel and some of the responses here are "less than cordial" unless I'm speed-reading them wrong.

The mag strip key cards as an example. I believe I read that Jay's lived with them day-in and day-out, and he's almost being called a liar in regards to the failure rate he experiences with them.

Jay - thanks to you and Mary for what you do. I do hope to one day be able to visit. While Iowa was closer, I may have a better chance convincing my wife to visit you near the beach. She spent jr high and high school years in a small SW Iowa town and it's not on her list of places to return to.

 

[Rndmtrvlr]

Same here. I travel extensively and rarely had issues with the magnetic key either.

I wouldn't say my issues with magnetic keys have been "frequent," but they have been overwhelmingly annoying. nothing like checking in to a hotel late at night after a long day of traveling or meetings, lugging your bags (even that single carry on) up the elevator and down the hall, and seeing the little red light flash when you insert the card. There is NOTHING you can do but drag back down the hall, back down the elevator, back to the front desk where the night clerk says, "Hmmm. That should work" and spends five minutes trying to convince himself that it's something I'm doing wrong before finally issuing me a new card so I can schlep back to the elevator, back down the hall, and try it again.

 

[Rndmtrvlr]

I am having trouble seeing much consistency in your statements.

Hmmm. I don't see an inconsistency in the quotes you selected at all. The last specifically mentions independent hoteliers, but all the rest I read (in context) to refer to chains.

 

[gkainz]

I wouldn't say my issues with magnetic keys have been "frequent," but they have been overwhelmingly annoying. nothing like checking in to a hotel late at night after a long day of traveling or meetings, lugging your bags (even that single carry on) up the elevator and down the hall, and seeing the little red light flash when you insert the card. There is NOTHING you can do but drag back down the hall, back down the elevator, back to the front desk where the night clerk says, "Hmmm. That should work" and spends five minutes trying to convince himself that it's something I'm doing wrong before finally issuing me a new card so I can schlep back to the elevator, back down the hall, and try it again.

Oh yeah there is ... Try schlepping your stuff to "your" room at 2am, insert the mag card key into the lock, open the door and step into a room with an occupied bed ... oops! Sorry! Back out quickly and try again. I would imagine it would be harder to hand someone a physical key to a room that was already occupied.

 

[Rndmtrvlr]

I think it's kind of sad to see all the crap that Jay's getting handed on this. He's building another aviation-themed hotel and some of the responses here are "less than cordial" unless I'm speed-reading them wrong.

The mag strip key cards as an example. I believe I read that Jay's lived with them day-in and day-out, and he's almost being called a liar in regards to the failure rate he experiences with them.

Jay - thanks to you and Mary for what you do. I do hope to one day be able to visit. While Iowa was closer, I may have a better chance convincing my wife to visit you near the beach. She spent jr high and high school years in a small SW Iowa town and it's not on her list of places to return to.

+1. Frankly, as a relatively new POAer, I'm surprised by the incivility of several posts in this and several other threads directed at a lot of people (and coming FROM a lot of folks .... Not picking on any small group). I expect a certain amount of rancor and baiting from all sides in the Spin Zone, but not in the general forums.

 

[weilke]

I think it's kind of sad to see all the crap that Jay's getting handed on this. He's building another aviation-themed hotel and some of the responses here are "less than cordial" unless I'm speed-reading them wrong.

I dont think he has received any 'less than cordial' responses regarding his own hotel venture. He himself however paints with a broad brush regarding all the evils of chain hotels when his allegations are just not in line with what we, the frequent hotel customers, experience.

Many of the 'chain motels/hotels' are run by small corporations, often family owned. I found some of them to take the same pride in the operation of their business that many independent operators do. Yes, there has been the occasional room that wasn't up to my standards, in a chain hotel you at least have someone else to squeal to if the manager doesn't make things right.

The mag strip key cards as an example. I believe I read that Jay's lived with them day-in and day-out, and he's almost being called a liar in regards to the failure rate he experiences with them.

He may have had a poorly designed or maintained system there. It is rare that I encounter a problem. Otoh, I have lost or misplaced dozends of them and never ever had any complaints or charges from the hotel.