Advice from working A&P's requested

flhrci

flhrci

Final Approach
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David
46 year-old male here, former CFI and have not flown for over a year. Have given up on flying for a living for now and can't afford to keep up with it and do not want to discuss it further.

Saw a story on NBC Nightly News tonight about how much the industry is hurting for A&P's, especially those with more technical skills. https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-new...to-bridge-u-s-middle-skills-gap-1053575747506
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-new...to-bridge-u-s-middle-skills-gap-1053575747506
A local community college has a 4 semester and 2 summer session (2 years) A&P program running. At my age, would it be worth getting my A&P licenses and changing careers yet again? Currently unhappy in the unskilled labor, warehouse job I am in now. I have 4 months of GI Bill left to use and can work and get financial aid to pay for the rest but I feel it is a financial risk. There looks to be a lot of A&P jobs around with a quick glance at job listings.


Thanks,

David
 
Contact the local shops and see if the're hiring,
Contact the school and ask about graduation rates and placement assistance.
If there's a class B airport nearby, see if the airlines have A&P facilities or is all the work done someplace else?
Do you enjoy working on cars, engines and/or body work?
With the shops/jobs you see posted, what are the going pay rates for beginners?
 
You could work as an apprentice for a FBO for 30 months and become eligible to take the tests. I would talk to your local FSDO on the actual requirements you need to meet during your apprenticeship.

Maybe do both, find and FBO willing to hire you and take the A&P program as well. You would at least get your foot in the door to get you out of the warehouse.
 
There are some shops that will bring on the students while they are in school. Students get more realistic hands-on while getting a solid school background and not be beginners when they finally graduate. Before the local public A&P school closed, the students were often hired during summer vacation.
 
AKBill said:
Maybe do both, find and FBO willing to hire you and take the A&P program as well. You would at least get your foot in the door to get you out of the warehouse.
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This!

Asking if shops are hiring before committing to a 2 year program is pretty much useless. They really have no idea whether or not they'll need someone in 2 years. Possible exceptions are larger jobs with a known statistical turnover (like airlines) or a place that's planning an expansion.

If you do as Bill has suggested, when you get out of school with the plastic still warm from the press, you'll have two years of experience that quite possibly your classmates won't have.
 
I've always thought my 4 years USAF avionics experience helped my A&P career. There's that technical aspect. I have been much more fortunate than the majority of A&P's. Some of it was luck and being at the right place at the right time.

There are eventually going to be many thousands of A&P jobs. How soon? That's debatable. A lot of A&Ps don't know if they will be able to afford to retire at normal retirement age. Mainly due to health care costs. I'm one of them.

On an A&P website I frequent, I heard today, that United is hiring A&Ps off the street. First time since the mid '80's. I've Been hearing a guy that's been out of work for a long long time say there are more people, just like him, with experience, than there are going to be job opening. There have been a few newer A&Ps that havent found work, no, one did not long ago.

I'd be scared, I think there's risk. If you do it, you definitely need something on your resume to give you an edge, maybe some NDT, and/or avionics certs?
 
GlennAB1 made me think of the ANG/Reserves. You'll be out for awhile attending basic and tech school but you will be getting paid. Get the training and experience while in a unit, and you can keep your present job until you find an A&P job. Probably could even find part time work helping an A&P at FBOs perhaps. You won't get an A&P ccertificate in the military but you can take the exam for an A&P I believe.
 
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Yes. Go to work now under the supervision of a AP while you gets yours. They will likely pay some/all your educational expenses. This experience will help you ace the exam.

Good money to be made. I would go for it.
 
David (OP), yes there are lots of A&P jobs open around the country and there will still be plenty two years from now when you finish the program. The airlines are hiring, the large repair stations are hiring and the small GA shops are hiring. Also OEMs are looking for tech reps. Your pilot experience and knowledge will give you a leg up in some of these areas. The sooner you start the training, the sooner you can start the new career. You are not too old. In two years, you will be 48 regardless of what you do. Do you want to be a 48 year old working in a warehouse or a 48 year old working in aviation maintenance and making a better income? Don't delay.
 
Something else to mention is that the mechanic certificate is an asset even if you choose not to pursue aircraft maintenance as a career. My primary job is in a test lab and the company I work for looks for applicants with airframe and power plant certificates and aircraft maintenance experience. I can think of at least six of us who are mechanics working there, some of whom likely wouldn't have gotten an interview without the A&P.
 
mondtster said:
Something else to mention is that the mechanic certificate is an asset even if you choose not to pursue aircraft maintenance as a career. My primary job is in a test lab and the company I work for looks for applicants with airframe and power plant certificates and aircraft maintenance experience. I can think of at least six of us who are mechanics working there, some of whom likely wouldn't have gotten an interview without the A&P.
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What sort of test lab?
 
mondtster said:
R&D for agricultural products and engines. I specifically work in the engine test lab.
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Interesting. I know A&Ps in several other industries besides aviation but this is the first I've heard of in ag products other than crop dusters though it makes great sense.
 
I find it hard to believe that there are some that can't get ANY A&P job. You might not start out making 30/hr but there are jobs to be had. I found one in 2008 in the depressed economy straight out of school. I was also told in school that there were plenty of companies that wanted guys with their A&P, not because they needed the cert, but because of the wide variety of skills. Companies like Caterpillar, Siemens for working on windmills, some medical equipment companies, elevator repair companies etc. I lived in bush Alaska for several years, no one there wanted to touch a 3 stage pump for an O2 concentrator. It was 2 seals, 3 orings, 4 bolts, and a handful of lines. Not a big deal to me, but no one else in the area was comfortable touching it. Once you learn some of the basics you can do many things. Skilled trades are having a hard time finding guys.

In general, I think it's worth while for someone to get their A&P. Once you have it, don't get stuck with the idea you can only work on aircraft. Don't get stuck with thinking you can only work on small cessna's and piper's. Use it as a spring board. If you can swing it finanically go for it. DO NOT spend the 30-40k that some schools want you to. You said you were looking at a community college. That's usually the most cost effective way to go to a school. I went to a stand alone, it was 16-17k, but I did it in a year. I realize I'm biased, but I think its one of the better schools.

There's plenty of aviation in OH, and plenty of other opportunities also. Go get it, and get a little experience, and there will be plenty of other opportunities. If there are drug/DUI/background check problems, that might be more of an issue and would depend on specific circumstances, but otherwise, go for it.
 
From a now retired A&P/IA:

There is no money working on small planes. It was a fun job but did not pay well.
 
Norman said:
From a now retired A&P/IA:

There is no money working on small planes. It was a fun job but did not pay well.
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Those working for regionals don't earn much either. Mainline, I don't know, but they lost their pensions a while ago and from my understanding they don't get the 16% B-fund pilots get, so not sure where exactly "there's money to be made" in the maintenance side of things. Manufacturers perhaps?¿
 
GlennAB1 said:
They probably can. Aircraft mechanics pay is all over the board, from the high teens/hr to start at some places, to around $60 an hour top out at others.
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ya but....auto mechanics don't do shift work...and have to stand out in the cold on a boom truck.
 
I appreciate everyone's input in this thread. I took it all in and made a decision this morning.

Today I had a tour scheduled for the A&P program at Columbus State CC here in Ohio which I just cancelled. I did this because at my age I cannot see spending 2 years, 5 days a week and 5-6 hours per day at school and having to work nearly full-time to make a living. Being single, it would be too much. Also I would have to take on more student loan debt over what I already have. I just don't think I can make it work.

For those that suggested military, I already have 16 years in the Navy and there is no going back. My Navy avionics experience did not translate well in 2006/2007 so that is not going to be an option for me ever again.

I think I will have to use my remaining 4 months of GI Bill to enhance my current job of working in a high-volume pharmacy by getting training to get the pharmacy technician certificate. It will be one semester instead of two years and I can modify my work schedule to accommodate while getting a housing stipend from the VA. Less than desirable but probably the best thing to do right now. I will end up with a $3-$4 an hour raise at the same job.

I realize in my current situation I need to work on debt and live the remainder of my life as comfortably as I can. Someday I may even be able to fly and be a CFI again. The aviation industry has been very rough and taken a lot from me and I have kept trying to go back and get back in. Its time to let go of a career in aviation once and for all as hard as it is for me to admit. For the last 10 years all I have wanted to do was be a professional CFI and have been clsoe to making it happen but it just has not worked out.
 
David, so sorry to hear. I went on a tour of that place a while back, thought it was actually quite inexpensive for what you got. But you do raise really good points. I'm thinking about going through their program when I retire (free, for retired Ohioans!) so I can maintain my own aircraft (can do the annual on an experimental!) and perhaps stay in the game.

You do realize that there's one POA denizen in Columbus who would be more than happy to take you flying. You can even do the CFI thing, and sit there silently.
 
I know OP said he doesn't want to talk about it, but I would love to know how you can be a CFI and _NOT_ work every day if you want to, while earning a pretty decent living.
 
flhrci said:
46 year-old male here, former CFI and have not flown for over a year. Have given up on flying for a living for now and can't afford to keep up with it and do not want to discuss it further.

Saw a story on NBC Nightly News tonight about how much the industry is hurting for A&P's, especially those with more technical skills. https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-new...to-bridge-u-s-middle-skills-gap-1053575747506
A local community college has a 4 semester and 2 summer session (2 years) A&P program running. At my age, would it be worth getting my A&P licenses and changing careers yet again? Currently unhappy in the unskilled labor, warehouse job I am in now. I have 4 months of GI Bill left to use and can work and get financial aid to pay for the rest but I feel it is a financial risk. There looks to be a lot of A&P jobs around with a quick glance at job listings.


Thanks,

David
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Move to a town with a large MRO. Get hired in the upholstry shop, cabinet shop, install shop, paint shop, Ground Support Equipment shop, Tool Room, Parts etc. Where you go from there is entirely up to you (maybe a little luck is involved too). Do some networking and talk to guys on teams other than yours. If you can type better than "hunt & peck", you're already have a skill that a lot of folks don't.
 
Consider getting any federal employment, in order to utilize the 16 years of active duty time to buy additional years into a FERS retirement. at this point, you're so behind the ability to retire outright, any payment beyond social security would be money well spent.

You would only need 5 years of federal civil service in order to qualify for a deferred annuity at 60. but at that point you would get credit for 16 years, plus however long you physically worked in the civil service. thats a 21% high three pension for ya, for only five years worked and 16 credited. you will have to pay into the system for every year of active duty time you wish to buy back, but that fee can be amortized over your employment stint with the federal government. having the 10 point preference would also help in gaining initial entrance.

Though our lives are unfairly funneled and horse-steered by whatever circumstances we inherit and what happens to us, I truly believe we are ultimately DEFINED by how we react and respond to these circumstances. That much you have control of. good luck to ya.
 
mtuomi said:
I know OP said he doesn't want to talk about it, but I would love to know how you can be a CFI and _NOT_ work every day if you want to, while earning a pretty decent living.
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Location probably the biggest factor, and airplane availability in the area. Some places a CFI can do well, others not so much.
 
Go for it. You’ll have a job around airplane at the very least, and it will make you more attractive if you get the opportunity to fly and grab a corporate gig down the road.
 
I was Air Force Avionics and Columbus State is my Alma Mater, although it was Columbus Technical Institute back then. Sorry it's not gonna work for ya.
 
Yup, this thread is back again.

I found that all last week I could not let this go. I was thinking about it all the time, especially at work. So knowing that I had to talk to the faculty and get a tour to go on with the program per the school, I decided to do it anyway. So I did the tour yesterday, after a job interview. Yea, frustrating timing as I have been after this job for two months and had only a phone interview a month ago. It pays $14.50 an hour which is what I would like to have and is $3.50 more than I get now.

Any way, I got some burning questions answered and basically I am signed up for 2 of the three A&P classes starting Feb 19th which is the last term of the Spring semester. The third class I can test out of as a pilot. My biggest concern was having to work and yet some how go to school 5 days a week. This first term it will be three days a week. 5-6 hours per day. The instructor said that most people work close to or full-time and go to school also. He made some points that I am probably already awake during the school hours just watching tv, and he is right! Any way, it sounds doable and he recommended trying it out. My current job will let me slim my hours down if need be and I work Sun-Thurs, school is Mon-Fri. So not so bad I guess. Just need to do some magical scheduling and hope my cat can deal with me not being around so much.

Looking at mostly student loans to pay for this unfortunately. But the books are either cheap or free (FAA).

So I will not hear anything about this job job for 2-3 weeks according to the interviewer and of course can't count on getting it when they are interviewing others. I feel I need to do something about my current crappy job situation. So A&P school or pharmacy tech school ( 1 semester) or new job are the three choices.

One thing I can do if I get the new job is since it will be days, I can go to A&P school one night a week over 4 years.

I am excited about A&P, errr, AMT school and would like to do it but I am cautious of course. It is a big step when one feels like an industry has trampled on them and taken advantage of them over the years.

David
 
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I will remind you that you could easily relocate to get a CFI job. Lots of openings in places other than here. Might apply to an A&P as well. Still, I hope it works out for you. I plan to do the A&P thing when I retire. I am a lousy mechanic, but I figure a couple years doing it every day could easily make me better.
 
steingar said:
I will remind you that you could easily relocate to get a CFI job. Lots of openings in places other than here. Might apply to an A&P as well. Still, I hope it works out for you. I plan to do the A&P thing when I retire. I am a lousy mechanic, but I figure a couple years doing it every day could easily make me better.
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Can’t relocate cause of my Mom right now. Has been the reason for several years. But thanks for the advice and flight offer. May take you up on that some time. Easier to stay away from the airports right now, less pain and less of a reminder about getting stabbed in the back in Newark, OH last year. Btw, I can email you all the info CSCC has sent me in the AMT program if you like to peruse.

David


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
steingar said:
David, so sorry to hear. I went on a tour of that place a while back, thought it was actually quite inexpensive for what you got. But you do raise really good points. I'm thinking about going through their program when I retire (free, for retired Ohioans!) so I can maintain my own aircraft (can do the annual on an experimental!) and perhaps stay in the game.

You do realize that there's one POA denizen in Columbus who would be more than happy to take you flying. You can even do the CFI thing, and sit there silently.
Click to expand...

@steingar, can you give me more info on the free for retired Ohioans? I’m about to reach that part of life (maybe)....

Thank you,

Dave
 
flhrci said:
Can’t relocate cause of my Mom right now. Has been the reason for several years. But thanks for the advice and flight offer. May take you up on that some time. Easier to stay away from the airports right now, less pain and less of a reminder about getting stabbed in the back in Newark, OH last year. Btw, I can email you all the info CSCC has sent me in the AMT program if you like to peruse.

David


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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@flhrci, I’d be interested in the information on the program if available.

Thank you,

Dave
 
Posting the materials via POA. Realized I could do it this way. So any one can look at them.
 

Attachments

  • AMT Tech Sheet.pdf
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  • AMT.AAS POS-SP Start (17).pdf
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  • Aviation Article.pdf
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  • Aviation Course Descriptions.pdf
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  • AviationMaintenance_Brochure_v1.pdf
    876.3 KB · Views: 3
  • AviationMaintenance_FAQ.pdf
    51.1 KB · Views: 3
  • First SEMESTER Checklist.pdf
    28.8 KB · Views: 3
  • New Student Schedule.pdf
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  • Ordering Books2.pdf
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  • Tool List.pdf
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