ADS-B decision

murphey said:
"vertically developed terrain"

gotta love that description! Goes right along with "cumulo granite".

Must remember that for the next YE ground school.
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It absolutely pales in comparison to what I saw on Facebook yesterday, where a guy described marijuana as "Spicy Oregano" and "Danger Cabbage" while trolling on a police department's thread. :rofl:
 
You’re correct, but my comment applied to the part of your last paragraph where you said a Stratus ESG now and a 175 later. I should have said the Stratus wouldn’t feed the 175. A senior moment. I might be wrong but I don’t think a Stratus will feed ADS-B to any Garmin Navigator
 
MBDiagMan said:
You’re correct, but my comment applied to the part of your last paragraph where you said a Stratus ESG now and a 175 later. I should have said the Stratus wouldn’t feed the 175. A senior moment. I might be wrong but I don’t think a Stratus will feed ADS-B to any Garmin Navigator
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A Stratus ESG, by itself, won't feed ADS-B to anything (besides ATC). It is an ADS-B Out-only solution.
 
asicer said:
A Stratus ESG, by itself, won't feed ADS-B to anything (besides ATC). It is an ADS-B Out-only solution.
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That's true. Just to clear things up, the ESG has a 3i option which includes a version of their Stratus 3s ads-B In receiver that gets its electrical power and antenna signal from the ESG, and can be hidden behind the panel. That's the extent of the comminication between the two... there really isn't any. The 3i, like the Stratux and a lot of other ads-B In boxes, transmits the data via wifi to whatever efb you happen to be using...Forefight, Fltplan Go, whatever. As far as I can tell, the only thing the extra $500 you spend on the 3i gets you over a homebuilt $150 Stratux is convenience and a few less wires. Functtionally, they're pretty much the same.

Thanks again for the further thoughts to all. Moving to a faster more capable aircraft rather than spending a lot of money improving this one has definitely crossed my mind, but I'm happily married and want to stay that way. Once we finally manage to start using this plane for transportation more than training, I might have more support on the homefront to do just that.
 
I’ve been following this thread and thought I would solicit opinions on an ADSB in option for our next plane.

Avionics:
Aspen 1000
PMA 8000B
GNS 480
King KX155
GTX330ES
Stec 60

I run Foreflight and need the solution to connect with it. I do fly IFR on a consistent basis.
 
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GMascelli said:
I’ve been following this thread and thought I would solicit opinions on an ADSB in option for our next plane.
Avionics:
PMA 8000B
GNS 480
King KX155
GTX330ES
I run Foreflight and need the solution to connect with it. I do fly IFR on a consistent basis.
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You're probably good with a Scout or a GDL-39 to send the ADS-B in to a tablet or dedicated aviation handheld. I wouldn't bust in to the panel as described.
 
asicer said:
A Stratus ESG, by itself, won't feed ADS-B to anything (besides ATC). It is an ADS-B Out-only solution.
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Man! You have to cross every t and dot every iaround here!

The post you quoted was correcting part of a previous post where I specified “ESG/Stratus” meaning a Stratus ESG transponder with the Stratus receiver installed on the back of it.
 
murphey said:
Guess what? I've owned my Cherokee 180 for almost 20 years...as much as I'd like a faster airplane, it's just dandy, thank you. Not terribly expensive to maintain, everyone knows how to fix them, and there's always parts. If the OP is happy with the 140, and doesn't expect to need more airplane, then add whatever upgrades and be happy.

Why the 180? Because I live in Denver, and want to be able to take off in the summer. If the OP doesn't live in high altitudes, then the 140 may be just fine.
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Yes, hindsight’s post was indeed condescending.

We all have different planes for different uses and budgets. I am happy for the OP that he has a plane that is 3njoyable and suits his purpose.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Since you already have a Garmin navigator I think a a 345 would be a good choice.
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Have you seen the table of what goes between the GTX345 and GNS480? It's a bit limiting.

This is for the 345R (remote) but I think it's the same for the regular 345:
Clipboard01.png
 
GMascelli said:
I’ve considered the swap for a GTX345 for panel but I’m open to other options.
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How about a solution that's pseudo-panel? Hide a GDL50 or GDL39 or some other receiver somewhere, run an antenna somewhere less hidden, then use an Air Gizmo to dock an aera 660 or some other tablet.
 
asicer said:
Have you seen the table of what goes between the GTX345 and GNS480? It's a bit limiting.

This is for the 345R (remote) but I think it's the same for the regular 345:
View attachment 73006
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Thanks asicer! Learn something new around here all the time.

That being the case, unless Mascelli is planning on a navigator change some day an ESG with mounted Stratus might be a good option. That would give him tablet IN. Of course a 345 would too and then he would be set if he ever upgrades the navigator.
 
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asicer said:
How about a solution that's pseudo-panel? Hide a GDL50 or GDL39 or some other receiver somewhere, run an antenna somewhere less hidden, then use an Air Gizmo to dock an aera 660 or some other tablet.
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Great info on the 345/480 lack of connection.

I’m not really interested in upgrading the avionics although I really do miss the Flight Stream capability with the 430/530 set up I have been used to.

I’ll look into the GDL39 and Stratus 3. I’ll panel mount my iPad mini 3 on the copilot side with a gizmo doc and have the new mini 5 on the pilot yoke with a ram mount.
 
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MBDiagMan said:
I think you just coined some very good new terms; “Panel IN” and “ Tablet IN.” I will use them. I hope you won’t demand royalty checks.
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I had to make that tough choice myself.

I went with out-only with Avidyne, that I can later update with panel-in. Using Stratux.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Yes, hindsight’s post was indeed condescending.

.
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That's "indeed", your opinion. The poster you quoted took unnecessary umbrage and the post wasn't directed at him anyways. Furthermore, the very example I provided of an airplane I could see sinking certified avionics dollars was precisely the airplane he owns! (albeit I said archer instead of Cherokee 180). So I have no idea why he's foaming at the mouth over my comment. That's what happens when people take this stuff too personally, or just generally looking for any reason to get recreationally umbraged.

As to the actual OP, who I was actually replying to, who owns a 140, i certainly meant no condescension. As a matter of fact I'm going the skybeacon route myself on the arrow. I'm recommending the same product I'm buying. if anything by your logic that would make me self deprecating, not condescending.
 
hindsight2020 said:
..
As to the actual OP, who I was actually replying to, who owns a 140, i certainly meant no condescension. As a matter of fact I'm going the skybeacon route myself on the arrow. I'm recommending the same product I'm buying. if anything by your logic that would make me self deprecating, not condescending.
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I find your self-deprecation condescending, and I'm offended... ;) ..
Seriously, I took no offense at all to any of the opinions voiced in this thread. I'd just about decided on going the ESG route, but now you've got me second guessing the whole thing. The 10-minute installation of the SkyBeacon and the (compared to everything else) small price tag would at least get me into the places I routinely fly now once 1/2020 hits. Just don't want to be cheap now and regret it in a year...
 
MuseChaser said:
I find your self-deprecation condescending, and I'm offended... ;) ..
Seriously, I took no offense at all to any of the opinions voiced in this thread. I'd just about decided on going the ESG route, but now you've got me second guessing the whole thing. The 10-minute installation of the SkyBeacon and the (compared to everything else) small price tag would at least get me into the places I routinely fly now once 1/2020 hits. Just don't want to be cheap now and regret it in a year...
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By all means, you won't go wrong with a 1090 solution, only you can figure out if the expenditure is worth your time based on your expectation of holding on to the airplane. I have my reasons to slap the cheapest and crudest 978 solution in order to go where I go. Good luck on whatever you choose. Cheers!
 
hindsight2020 said:
That's "indeed", your opinion. The poster you quoted took unnecessary umbrage and the post wasn't directed at him anyways. Furthermore, the very example I provided of an airplane I could see sinking certified avionics dollars was precisely the airplane he owns! (albeit I said archer instead of Cherokee 180). So I have no idea why he's foaming at the mouth over my comment. That's what happens when people take this stuff too personally, or just generally looking for any reason to get recreationally umbraged.

As to the actual OP, who I was actually replying to, who owns a 140, i certainly meant no condescension. As a matter of fact I'm going the skybeacon route myself on the arrow. I'm recommending the same product I'm buying. if anything by your logic that would make me self deprecating, not condescending.
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You are correct. That is my opinion. I might point out that just because you may not have meant it that way, it doesn’t mean that it was not taken that way.

All the best.
 
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Figure it this way - if you do a Skybeacon and get the rebate, and decide to sell it as a used unit after 2020, you probably won’t have lost all that much anyway.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Figure it this way - if you do a Skybeacon and get the rebate, and decide to sell it as a used unit after 2020, you probably won’t have lost all that much anyway.
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Never considered that angle.. very astute. Thanks so much for complicating the issue... ;)

Of course, I will have lost the rebate money I could have applied towards the ESG/335/345. Basically, I'd be using the rebate to "rent" a SkyBeacon assuming I could sell it used for $1385 in the event I find myself finding I really should have bought an ESG/335 or even 345. It's still $500 not really in the airplane.

Cheap me says just get the SkyBeacon and be done with it. Smart me says shut up and go ESG. Both have very good points. Pragmatic me definitely does not want to do this twice.
 
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MuseChaser said:
Moving to a faster more capable aircraft rather than spending a lot of money improving this one has definitely crossed my mind, but I'm happily married and want to stay that way. Once we finally manage to start using this plane for transportation more than training, I might have more support on the homefront to do just that.
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So you're saying there's a possibility... ;)

And with that in mind, cheap is the way to go.

Is there anything to prevent a SkyBeacon from being stolen, though? Seems to me even a pretty bad thief would be gone with it in a minute or less.

GMascelli said:
I’ve been following this thread and thought I would solicit opinions on an ADSB in option for our next plane.

Avionics:
PMA 8000B
GNS 480
King KX155
GTX330ES

I run Foreflight and need the solution to connect with it. I do fly IFR on a consistent basis.
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You're in pretty good shape right now - You're 2020 compliant. All you really need is a Scout or Stratus to get In and you're golden.

That said... The 480 is no longer supported, so if that dies you might end up spending a lot of money. If you liked the FlightStream, and you have the budget, maybe a panel overhaul is in order? PSE makes a great audio panel, and I don't think I'd bother replacing at 8000B at this point, so I'd keep that. The KX155 and GTX330ES have some value on the used market. In fact, the 480 probably has some value on the used market, it seems a lot of the people who have them are pretty fanatical about them. Pull those three, sell them, and replace with GTX 345, GTN 650, and GNC255 and you won't need to touch your radio stack for 20 years.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
.....You're in pretty good shape right now - You're 2020 compliant. All you really need is a Scout or Stratus to get In and you're golden.
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I think I'm going to go with the Stratus 3. The Scout looked good but I fly IFR and want the extra features of the Stratus. I'm going to purchase an iPad mini 5 and use the mini 3 as a back up, I may even add it to the copilot side panel with a gizmo doc or some other sort of temporary attachment.

Mary and I are headed out to meet the owner and take a flight tomorrow. Yeah, fun, driving... :confused:. At least the owner is meeting us half way, five hours beats nine in the car. If Mary likes the plane then I will fly back out for the annual/pre-buy, flight transition training, and then fly it home some time late this month or early May. At least my hangar should be open by then. I have a owner using the hangar for now until his grass strip dries out.
 
GMascelli said:
I think I'm going to go with the Stratus 3. The Scout looked good but I fly IFR and want the extra features of the Stratus. I'm going to purchase an iPad mini 5 and use the mini 3 as a back up, I may even add it to the copilot side panel with a gizmo doc or some other sort of temporary attachment.
...
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If you like the Stratus 3, you might want to check into building yourself a Stratux instead. Setup, form, and function are basically the same, but you can build a Stratux for around $150...maybe a little less or a little more depending upon what stuff you already have laying around. 1090 and 978 reception, AHSR, internal GPS, wifi output to your iPad EFB. Building one takes maybe a half hour the first time. I don't see any advantage to the Stratus 3 over the Stratux, although I've only flown w/ my Stratux. I can say that it works great...gps/ahsr work great (although Fltplan Go on Android still doesn't support AHSR....ahem..), traffic shows on Fltplan Go immediately on the ground, and weather and other info once I'm at reception altitude. Plenty of info out there, but I'd be happy to answer any questions re/ construction or usage. All needed parts are available on Amazon.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
So you're saying there's a possibility... ;)

And with that in mind, cheap is the way to go.

Is there anything to prevent a SkyBeacon from being stolen, though? Seems to me even a pretty bad thief would be gone with it in a minute or less.
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According to uAvionix, the user password you use when you configure the device is the theft deterrent; once your aircraft identifying numbers are input, they can't be changed w/out that password, and no one knows it but you.. not even uAvionix. Like anything else, a determined ne'erdowell coukd probably get around that, but who knows.
 
GMascelli said:
I think I'm going to go with the Stratus 3. The Scout looked good but I fly IFR and want the extra features of the Stratus. I'm going to purchase an iPad mini 5 and use the mini 3 as a back up, I may even add it to the copilot side panel with a gizmo doc or some other sort of temporary attachment.
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Gary - you may also want to look at the Sentry. It has AHRS and a CO detector built in and is a bit cheaper than the Stratus. I have a Scout and would have bought the Sentry if it would have been available at the time.
 
Jim_CAK said:
Gary - you may also want to look at the Sentry. It has AHRS and a CO detector built in and is a bit cheaper than the Stratus. I have a Scout and would have bought the Sentry if it would have been available at the time.
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Jim,

The sentry also has 12 hours of battery life. Thanks for the heads up.
 
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Not sure about the ability for power input for other tablet-in devices, but I power my Stratux through a cigarette lighter plug, so no messing with batteries for me.
 
GMascelli said:
I’ve considered the swap for a GTX345 for panel but I’m open to other options.
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Swapping your 330ES for the 375 is the option I'd go for. It will give you a pictoral GPS moving map as well as ADSB in/out. Like most owners of the 480, I love the little box. Well ahead of its' time. Still there for #1 Comm/VOR/ILS and GPS. And, as I'm sure you know, the 375 will continue to support your tablet.

I suspect you would probably still use the 480 GPS, but see where you are going on the 375. Perhaps the inputs can be switched to your autopilot ?

When the 480 dies, replace it with a 650 or Avidyne 440.
 
He gave me the manual and the paperwork that was with it when he bought it. I tucked it away in my log book box. The avionics shop gave me a sticker for my log book.

I now fly both planes with IN and I am seeing more traffic on the screen than I did a year or so ago.
 
GRG55 said:
None of us need worry about ADS-B Out in Canada for quite awhile. NavCanada (the organization that runs the ATC system) is pushing it. Transport Canada (the Federal regulator) is lukewarm, at best. Two years ago Transport said it would be "at least ten years". The big push in Canada is going to be for flight safety and SAR in remote regions. That's why the top mount antenna...Transport wants satellite, not ground station as the FAA went.
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Just a follow-up on the above, attached a notice from Nav Canada showing ADS-B Out upcoming requirements. Confirms for GA operating outside of Class A and Class B airspace it won't be applicable for some time, and additional consultations before anything gets decided.

Note the requirement for broadcast antenna diversity (antennas on both top and bottom of the aircraft).
 

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