Adiz...

bjohnson

bjohnson

Line Up and Wait
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Nov 11, 2006
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Chattanooga, TN
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Mooney Driver
Adiz

After reading Ron’s “Into the FRZ” thread I thought I would ask:

This Sunday I will be flying IFR to Allentown PA for business. My current plan is to fly from 1A0 to W22 for the 1st leg and then W22 – 1N9 for the second leg. This keeps me entirely clear of the ADIZ and hopefully the Camp David TFR won’t pop up. However, when I return Tuesday afternoon I am considering 1N9 to W45 and then 1A0. The fist leg takes me through the 30 – 60nm outer ring of the ADIZ. Just about everything I have read about the ADIZ is for VFR flight into/from. As far as I can tell the requirements for IFR are: Two-way radio, Mode C, IFR flight plan. I will also monitor Guard Freq. on Com 2. Am I missing anything? What is the likelihood of being able to go direct? Any local pilots have route suggestions?

Thank you in advance!!
 
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The outer area is primarily a speed restricted area (and doesn't affect us much) IFR or VFR. You shouldn't have a problem.

The inner area has two major caveats:

1. Make sure you're already talking and squawking (not a problem for through IFR flights usually)

2. Make sure you avoid the FRZ and P40 no matter what the controller tells you.
 
You don't have to worry about the ADIZ if you are IFR. You are in the system, they know who you are. The ADIZ procedures are for the VFR guys going in and out.

But why fly IFR? Forecast looks good for this weekend; why not fly VFR at 1500 and check out the scenary and foliage?
 
The outer 30-60nm ring is not just "primarily" a speed restricted area, it is solely for the purpose of setting a 230 KIAS speed limit for VFR aircraft. There is no other regulatory effect of this outer ring. If your route of flight does not enter the 30nm ring, there are no ADIZ implications to your flight. Of course, if you're VFR, the Class B airspace may still limit your freedom of routing, and if you're IFR, the ADIZ is transparent (you fly your clearance and that's full compliance in and of itself).

That said...

You can forget any direct line from Buckhannon WV to Allentown PA. If you're departing W22 IFR, the only way they'll route you is up west of Dulles over MRB, and then via V39 towards Allentown. If you're VFR, they will tell you to remain clear of the B-space, effectively sending you on the same circuitous routing or ducking under the B-space floor west/north of Dulles. This is simply how Potomac does business to keep crossing traffic from interfering with the Dulles arrivals and departures.

Likewise, going back from Allentown to Luray Caverns, you will be sent down V39 to MRB, and then southwest to W45 if you go IFR, or told to remain clear of the B-space if you go VFR (effectively the same route as if you went IFR). Again, the only way not to go this route is to go around Dulles VFR under the B-space floor.
 
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Brent, Why don't you head over to the east side of the ADIZ toward Richmond. You'll spend less time over the bummpy Allegheny mountains. I often get a good routing over Richmond when heading north. RIC to TAPPA and then onward to the DQO area and up.
 
Ron Levy said:
If you're departing W22 IFR, the only way they'll route you is up west of Dulles over MRB, and then via V29 towards Allentown.
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Did you mean to V39? V29 is a North South airway following the east coast.
 
I made it from TN to Allentown PA on the 7th and stayed clear of the ADIZ. However yesterday on the return trip I flew through the ADIZ on an IFR flight plan. Before departing 1N9 CD gave me a re-route consisting of at least 7 waypoints for my short 1.2 hr flight to my fuel stop. While on the ground I enter everything into the GPS FPL. Not 10 minutes into the flight "642 advise when ready to copy re-route" OK, Copy down the 2nd re-route with a different 5 or 6 waypoints and enter them into the GPS. And I think to myself boy it would have been nice to have gotten this on the ground with CD. I continue the flight another 10 minutes and with out fail the wonderful "642 advise when ready to copy re-route" is heard across the radio again! At this point I got a little frustrated with this being the 3rd re-route and let the controller know I had been routed all over the place twice and asked where he would like me to go now. I received a simple re-route that time.

Is this common for those of you who fly IFR in the ADIZ? Do controllers assume we have everything committed to memory? The combination of being in an unfamiliar airspace while IMC and having to look up the identifiers for each waypoint for the 3rd time made me a little frustrated.
 
bjohnson said:
Is this common for those of you who fly IFR in the ADIZ? Do controllers assume we have everything committed to memory? The combination of being in an unfamiliar airspace while IMC and having to look up the identifiers for each waypoint for the 3rd time made me a little frustrated.
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It's actually common in a lot of metro areas with a lot of traffic. I've gotten something similar in Chicago and Washington, and more than once I've gotten "Cleared to, oh wait, that's not going to work. Stand by for another route" in areas near to Class B airspace.
 
bjohnson said:
Is this common for those of you who fly IFR in the ADIZ?
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Unfortunately, yes.

Do controllers assume we have everything committed to memory?
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Again, unfortunately, they seem to assume we're as familiar with the airspace, fixes, and routes as they are. They often seem to forget that we're not flying the same sector five days a week, 50 weeks a year.

The combination of being in an unfamiliar airspace while IMC and having to look up the identifiers for each waypoint for the 3rd time made me a little frustrated.
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Just ask them to spell it -- they are usually good about that.
 
bjohnson said:
Is this common for those of you who fly IFR in the ADIZ? Do controllers assume we have everything committed to memory? The combination of being in an unfamiliar airspace while IMC and having to look up the identifiers for each waypoint for the 3rd time made me a little frustrated.
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Welcome to Potomac Tracon, and NY approach as well.

I study the area charts for a good two days prior to transiting these airspaces.

Sigh.
 
bjohnson said:


Is this common for those of you who fly IFR in the ADIZ? Do controllers assume we have everything committed to memory? The combination of being in an unfamiliar airspace while IMC and having to look up the identifiers for each waypoint for the 3rd time made me a little frustrated.
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Yes it is common, and routine. Why would you be committing anything to memory?
 
spiderweb said:
Yes it is common, and routine. Why would you be committing anything to memory?
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I have many VOR's, Intersections and Airport identifiers in my local area committed to memory.

The real Beef is: Why don't the different sectors work together for routing? It was apparent to me that every controller I spoke to thought they needed to re-route me for some reason. Maybe they had good reason:dunno: I will never know.
 
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