Adding ASEL to ATP-AMEL

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tinygiant

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tinygiant
All,

Thanks for letting me participate here. Seems like a great forum and community. I'm looking to add a rating and here's my question...

I currently hold an ATP-AMEL, but have no single engine ratings. I want to add a single engine rating and have been doing some flight training toward getting my Comm-ASEL complete. I was told yesterday by a CFI (not the CFI I'm currently working with) that I could not get a Comm-ASEL add-on because I no longer have Comm-AMEL to add it on to. I would have to go the ATP-ASEL route. The ATP-ASEL route has an hours restriction that I haven't met yet, so it would be a more expensive route than the Comm-ASEL. Am I allowed to take the Comm-ASEL add-on (via the additional rating task table in the PTS) or do I have to complete the extra hours and take the ATP-ASEL?

Thanks for any help/guidance you can provide.
 
I can't help, but I do recall my friend who did his checkride for both, and after they'd landed for the AMEL part, they had to go up and do everything all over again for ASEL part. There were no crossovers.
 
Strat,

Thanks for that input. I'm aware that the ATP-ASEL has no additional rating task table associated, so it would be a full checkride. I'm not worried about taking a full or partial check, just thoroughly confused as to whether I would have to take the ATP (i.e. pay for additional flying hours) or if I'm allowed to do Comm-ASEL add-on since I meet all requirements for this one now.
 
So if you wanted to get a Glider rating that would have to be ATP-glider? Makes no sense to me. I know plenty of ATP multi pilots that got private and commercial glider ratings added on. I'll bet that CFI is wrong, and you can do Comm-ASEL add on or Private for that matter.
 
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Lance F said:
So if you wanted to get a Glider rating that would have to be ATP-glider? Makes no sense to me. I know plenty of ATP multi pilots that got private and commercial glider ratings added on. I'll bet that CFI is wrong, and you can do Comm-ASEL add on or Private for that matter.
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The single-engine approach followed by a missed approach would be a bear in a glider!

:rofl:
 
tinygiant said:
All,

Thanks for letting me participate here. Seems like a great forum and community. I'm looking to add a rating and here's my question...

I currently hold an ATP-AMEL, but have no single engine ratings. I want to add a single engine rating and have been doing some flight training toward getting my Comm-ASEL complete. I was told yesterday by a CFI (not the CFI I'm currently working with) that I could not get a Comm-ASEL add-on because I no longer have Comm-AMEL to add it on to. I would have to go the ATP-ASEL route. The ATP-ASEL route has an hours restriction that I haven't met yet, so it would be a more expensive route than the Comm-ASEL. Am I allowed to take the Comm-ASEL add-on (via the additional rating task table in the PTS) or do I have to complete the extra hours and take the ATP-ASEL?

Thanks for any help/guidance you can provide.
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Yeah, make an appointment with the FSDO and talk to them, they'll work something out for you. It is incorrect to say that you no longer have a Commercial rating if you held one prior. You may not have the certificate, but the rating is in your jacket.

I know one guy who came out of the military and went straight to ATP, if that's you as well, then all bets are off and you need to do a whole commercial written maybe.
 
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I had my Comm-AMEL prior to the ATP. Thanks for all the pointers. I'll hit up the local FSDO, if they ever open. They haven't answered the phone all week, so I guess it's time to knock on the door.

I'll post up the final answer when I get it.

Thanks again!
 
CFI is wrong, lower privileges is added on. Certificate will be written something like this:
Airline Transport Pilot XYZ
Commercial privileges single engine sea

Go have fun.
 
tinygiant said:
I had my Comm-AMEL prior to the ATP. Thanks for all the pointers. I'll hit up the local FSDO, if they ever open. They haven't answered the phone all week, so I guess it's time to knock on the door.

I'll post up the final answer when I get it.

Thanks again!
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You can't knock on the door anymore.:( You need an appointment to get through the parking lot gate to get to the door. Email works well, but typically they answer in the morning and afternoon. FAA website has contacts as well.
 
Phoenix said:
CFI is wrong, lower privileges is added on. Certificate will be written something like this:
Airline Transport Pilot XYZ
Commercial privileges single engine sea

Go have fun.
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That's what I'm used to seeing. Probably don't need the FSDO at all, just go do it.
 
Phoenix said:
CFI is wrong, lower privileges is added on. Certificate will be written something like this:
Airline Transport Pilot XYZ
Commercial privileges single engine sea

Go have fun.
Click to expand...
This. At one time I was considering adding Priveleges at the Sport Pilot level to my ATP...wouldn't have been a problem.
 
Just get your CPL SEL add on, the ATP single is pointless, hence why most ATPs are multi ATP, single CPL pilots.

Isn't that big of a deal, go knock it out at your local flight school.
 
I think the single ATP is pointless anymore anyway...I don't know of any operations that require it (single engine scheduled 135 used to), and it doesn't do anything to extend your ATP written for the multi anymore.

...although mine allowed me to act as captain in the King Air.:yes:
 
Thanks for all the pointers. I knew something didn't sound right about that advice. Given all the opinions here and the few references I found in FAR/AIM, I'm going to press with the CPL-ASEL. Now I just need to find a DPE in Vegas.

Thanks again...
 
James331 said:
Just get your CPL SEL add on, the ATP single is pointless, hence why most ATPs are multi ATP, single CPL pilots.

Isn't that big of a deal, go knock it out at your local flight school.
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There are lots of pointless things that people do routinely around the world. If he wants to get an ATP-SEL, so be it. Seems like if you're gonna do it, the way to go is find a place with a Lake LA-4 and do the ATP-SEL/SES at the same time.
 
Since we're on the subject... I'm relatively new to the GA world, so I don't have all the intricacies down just yet. Does ATP confer the privileges of a Commercial pilot or do you have to complete a commercial check (ME or SE) in addition to whatever ATP you have? Example: Does ATP-MEL give you CPL-MEL privilges if you'd never taken a Comm checkride?
 
If he doesn't have a SE CPL, how could he go directly to SE ATP? I admit I'm no expert at this, but if he only had ME CPL than he never did the commercial maneuvers.
 
tinygiant said:
Since we're on the subject... I'm relatively new to the GA world, so I don't have all the intricacies down just yet. Does ATP confer the privileges of a Commercial pilot or do you have to complete a commercial check (ME or SE) in addition to whatever ATP you have? Example: Does ATP-MEL give you CPL-MEL privilges if you'd never taken a Comm checkride?
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You've got all privileges at or below your certificate level...you can even fly for pleasure with a third class medical if you so choose.;)
 
MauleSkinner said:
You've got all privileges at or below your certificate level...you can even fly for pleasure with a third class medical if you so choose.;)
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But currently zero privlidges for ASEL. Different classes are like two different licenses printed on the same card.
 
James331 said:
Just get your CPL SEL add on, the ATP single is pointless, hence why most ATPs are multi ATP, single CPL pilots.

Isn't that big of a deal, go knock it out at your local flight school.
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I agree it's not worth much, and I know the OP said he had an hours issue, but if hours weren't a problem, the ATP checkride is much easier than the Commercial, so if I was going to do it, I'd just know out the SE-ATP and skip the Commercial all together.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I agree it's not worth much, and I know the OP said he had an hours issue, but if hours weren't a problem, the ATP checkride is much easier than the Commercial, so if I was going to do it, I'd just know out the SE-ATP and skip the Commercial all together.
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If you cannot pass a CSEL ride, you have no business having an ATP/SEL. The Commercial SEL ride is a basic energy management visual ride. If you can't pass a CSEL ride, then take a PP/SEL ride.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I agree it's not worth much, and I know the OP said he had an hours issue, but if hours weren't a problem, the ATP checkride is much easier than the Commercial, so if I was going to do it, I'd just know out the SE-ATP and skip the Commercial all together.
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Not sure that can be done. Also disagree about the ATP being "easy".
 
Kritchlow said:
Not sure that can be done. Also disagree about the ATP being "easy".
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ATP ride is an Instrument ride, Comm is an Energy ride, they are very different. Some will find the instrument part easier, some will find the energy part easier. If you want to work at the ATP level though, you need to have both skill sets to earn your keep.
 
Phoenix said:
CFI is wrong, lower privileges is added on. Certificate will be written something like this:
Airline Transport Pilot XYZ
Commercial privileges single engine sea

Go have fun.
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This!

And go get a different CFI. Everything you need is in the regs.
 
Henning said:
ATP ride is an Instrument ride, Comm is an Energy ride, they are very different. Some will find the instrument part easier, some will find the energy part easier. If you want to work at the ATP level though, you need to have both skill sets to earn your keep.
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It's an instrument ride with much tighter tolerances. Usually the only reason it seems "easy" is because it's well seasoned instrument pilots that are taking it.
 
That said, I stand by my earlier post... How is it possible to go direct to ASEL ATP without a ASEL CPL?
 
Kritchlow said:
That said, I stand by my earlier post... How is it possible to go direct to ASEL ATP without a ASEL CPL?
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From Part 141...

"(4) For the airline transport pilot certificate, the course must include 25 hours flight training, including 15 hours of instrument training, in a single engine airplane on the areas of operation under part 141, appendix E, paragraph 4.(c). A flight simulator and flight training device cannot be used to meet more than 12.5 hours of the training requirements; and the use of the flight training device is limited to 6.25 hours of the 12.5 hours permitted."


I bet there's a Part 61 option as well.
 
Would he not need to do commercial maneuvers??
 
Kritchlow said:
That said, I stand by my earlier post... How is it possible to go direct to ASEL ATP without a ASEL CPL?
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Was the OP former military? If so...

From 61.153

(d) Meet at least one of the following requirements:

(1) Holds a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating issued under this part;

(2) Meet the military experience requirements under §61.73 of this part to qualify for a commercial pilot certificate, and an instrument rating if the person is a rated military pilot or former rated military pilot of an Armed Force of the United States; or

(3) Holds either a foreign airline transport pilot license with instrument privileges, or a foreign commercial pilot license with an instrument rating, that—

(i) Was issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation; and

(ii) Contains no geographical limitations.
Click to expand...
 
Anymouse said:
Go to Part 141 Appendix I. I'll let you do the research. ;)
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I'm not interested in doing the research. I just find it odd that you can have a SE ATP without ever doing the commercial maneuvers. Seems like a big loophole.
 
Everskyward said:
Was the OP former military? If so...

From 61.153
Click to expand...

But if he never held a SE CPL, does he qualify? He never did any commercial maneuvers. If he got an ATP SE, he could surrender down to a SE CPL and never did a commercial maneuver. That seems odd to me.
 
Kritchlow said:
But if he never held a SE CPL, does he qualify? He never did any commercial maneuvers. If he got an ATP SE, he could surrender down to a SE CPL and never did a commercial maneuver. That seems odd to me.
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It seems odd to me as well.
 
Kritchlow said:
But if he never held a SE CPL, does he qualify? He never did any commercial maneuvers. If he got an ATP SE, he could surrender down to a SE CPL and never did a commercial maneuver. That seems odd to me.
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Under the reg I posted, he could qualify for the ATP based on his military experience even if he never held a civilian commercial. But I'm just guessing that he has military experience based on his post. I don't know if it is true or not.
 
Everskyward said:
Under the reg I posted, he could qualify for the ATP based on his military experience even if he never held a civilian commercial. But I'm just guessing that he has military experience based on his post. I don't know if it is true or not.
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Generally military only converts to commercial grade, unless something has changed in the last couple years??
 
Kritchlow said:
Generally military only converts to commercial grade, unless something has changed in the last couple years??
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What I meant is that he could qualify to take the ATP test, not that it converts automatically.
 
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