Accelerated Spins

Nice video. The cross over spin really shows you how you could spin an aircraft into the ground convinced you're holding the proper inputs and never realized you'd crossed it over. Doing that unintentionally has killed untrained pilots - they just didn't know it had crossed over and were looking in the wrong place.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
My little brother posted a video illustrating various kinds of spins:

http://www.youtube.com/user/T123TK#p/u/2/UiEMVFV3BWY

I like his "climb to altitude" technique :rofl:

That kid's got way too much time on his hands.
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Good video. The Immelman used as he's using it when doing a spin sequence like this one is a great exercise in energy management. Utilizes the exit airspeed and saves fuel too! :))
I've often done this myself when teaching pilots how to design and fly maneuver sequences to be used in display flying.
Shown in slow motion with stop sequencing and a microphone, videos like this one make a great aerobatic audio/visual training aid.
Dudley Henriques
 
I was just talking to an IFR pilot about getting through a layer of clouds if you get caught on top without an AH. Here the layer of clouds is about 2'000' thick, 1,000' AGL. He said one way to do it is go into a spin until you are clear of the clouds. :yikes:

I think I'll pass.

Nice video!
 
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Geico266 said:
I was just talking to an IFR pilot about getting through a layer of clouds if you get caught on top without an AH. Here the layer of clouds is about 2'000' thick, 1,000' AGL. He said one way to do it is go into a spin until you are clear of the clouds. :yikes:

I think I'll pass.

Nice video!
Click to expand...

Thanks.

But when push comes to shove and you ain't got no gyro's- things I have heard suggested:

If all you have is a mag compass, the experts suggest that it is best to just point south where the compass at least swings in the right directon when you turn. How you manage to get pointed south to begin with is left as an excercise for the reader.

Benign spiral - some aircraft can be left to their own devices - just hang
out flaps, gear, whatever you have and let go. Most authorities recommend trying it in visual conditions in your particular aircraft first.

Spin. And hope there is enough visual altitude under the clouds. Oh, yea, you already said you didn't like that one... :rofl:

GPS heading - works if your airspeed is high compared to wind speed.
Doesn't work, for example, in a sailplane flying in wave where the ground
speed can be near zero.

Fly straight down (or thereabouts):yikes:. Heard of a guy that did this in a twin (a spin was not an option in this aircraft). Gear out, flaps down, props
flat. Bent the airplane, but it remained in one piece. I also personally know another guy who did this in an acro biplane - no damage in this case. Not for the feint at heart.

By guess and by gosh - chances are you will end up in the good old
"graveyard spiral". So when speed, noise, and G's start building try to
stop the turn with a random application of aileron - if you guess right,
things quiet down. If it gets worse, you guessed wrong - try the other way. I read an account of someone who got out of the soup this way.

But as I understand it, most likely you will end up dead (at least in real
life - I find things a lot easier when playing a computer game)
 
Geico266 said:
I was just talking to an IFR pilot about getting through a layer of clouds if you get caught on top without an AH. Here the layer of clouds is about 2'000' thick, 1,000' AGL. He said one way to do it is go into a spin until you are clear of the clouds. :yikes:

I think I'll pass.

Nice video!
Click to expand...
It really depends on the airplane. There are few airplanes these days that spin well enough to do something like that. Many of them will exit the spin into a death spiral in a hurry. You'd want to have done a LOT of spins in your plane before using that technique.

Any of the following can help you fly down:
turn coordinator
gps
mag compass
half empty bottle of mt dew, etc :)
 
jesse said:
It really depends on the airplane. There are few airplanes these days that spin well enough to do something like that. Many of them will exit the spin into a death spiral in a hurry. You'd want to have done a LOT of spins in your plane before using that technique.

Any of the following can help you fly down:
turn coordinator
gps
mag compass
half empty bottle of mt dew, etc :)
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What ya gonna do with that half empty bottle, p-- in it??
 
gismo said:
What ya gonna do with that half empty bottle, p-- in it??
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That was mostly a joke, but I have tried to fly by holding one on the panel before. It is sort of doable - except it doesn't work that well in turbulence.
 
jesse said:
That was mostly a joke, but I have tried to fly by holding one on the panel before. It is sort of doable - except it doesn't work that well in turbulence.
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But if your turns were coordinated, the half-full bottle wouldn't work. ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
But if your turns were coordinated, the half-full bottle wouldn't work. ;)
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It's not a perfect method, by any means. I'm not sure that I'd seriously try to ever use it. It is fun to mess with though when you're bored under the hood. It mostly provides an indication of unintended change. Useful in any real world scenario? Not really. It would mostly show you that you were royally screwed.
 
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jesse said:
It's not a perfect method, by any means. I'm not sure that I'd seriously try to ever use it. It is fun to mess with though when you're bored under the hood. It mostly provides an indication of unintended change. Useful in any real world scenario? Not really. It would mostly show you that you were royally screwed.
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And at least you'd have a drink to enjoy so you wouldn't die thirsty. ;)
 
I have a feeling it would not be mountain dew in that bottle...
 
jesse said:
That was mostly a joke, but I have tried to fly by holding one on the panel before. It is sort of doable - except it doesn't work that well in turbulence.
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I figured you were joking but it sounds like you think that the liquid could tell you something other than how well coordinated you were flying. In the clouds you could keep the liquid surface perfectly level in a steep turn or even during a complete roll. Have you seen the video of Bob Hoover pouring a glass of tea while rolling the Shrike?
 
gismo said:
I figured you were joking but it sounds like you think that the liquid could tell you something other than how well coordinated you were flying. In the clouds you could keep the liquid surface perfectly level in a steep turn or even during a complete roll. Have you seen the video of Bob Hoover pouring a glass of tea while rolling the Shrike?
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BBC interview / film clips:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2006-3-11_bob_hoover.avi

"The difficult part was pouring the tea backhanded so it would show up on the camera"
 
gismo said:
I figured you were joking but it sounds like you think that the liquid could tell you something other than how well coordinated you were flying. In the clouds you could keep the liquid surface perfectly level in a steep turn or even during a complete roll. Have you seen the video of Bob Hoover pouring a glass of tea while rolling the Shrike?
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Sure have, but you'd have to be damn perfect to be making perfect mistakes. It does provide an indication of unattended change as I said above.
 
Geico266 said:
I was just talking to an IFR pilot about getting through a layer of clouds if you get caught on top without an AH. Here the layer of clouds is about 2'000' thick, 1,000' AGL. He said one way to do it is go into a spin until you are clear of the clouds. :yikes:

I think I'll pass.

Nice video!
Click to expand...

More appropriate to use that technique to pop down through a sucker hole than the layer itself..

It might be easier to just hold a full stall, coordinated rather than wind it up like that..

Of course, you put a $2000 dynon in a spare hole in the panel and dont use it for primary reference "except in emergencies", with minor installation paperwork.... and its all moot.
 
Doggtyred said:
More appropriate to use that technique to pop down through a sucker hole than the layer itself..
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A spin will require less lateral space than a spiral descent (for the ultimate in minimizing the hole size requirement try a flat spin:D) but the spiral allows for the ability to remain centered in the available clear area.

It might be easier to just hold a full stall, coordinated rather than wind it up like that..
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With no gyroscopic reference how would you remain "coordinated" (i.e. wings level), not to mention pitch stable (many airplanes will oscillate in pitch when held in a stall).

Of course, you put a $2000 dynon in a spare hole in the panel and dont use it for primary reference "except in emergencies", with minor installation paperwork.... and its all moot.
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The FAA is strongly opposed to that concept. The only way I know of to get around their prejudice against non approved attitude instruments is to attach the Dynon in a way that allows removal without tools i.e. as "portable equipment".
 
Hi ya'll,

Actually, today a newly minted private pilot and I flew some in my C152- I flew right seat to start getting used to that side.
We set it up for a controlled emergency descent through clouds like this: carb heat on, throttle idle, full flaps, full nose up trim, hands in lap, rudder only for wings level and small adjustments back on course. Worked like a dream - she just quietly floated downwards ... course there was no turbulence, or clouds but it was good practice and it gave us a chance to talk about inadverdent VFR into IMC.
I'll check out the videos you posted now.
 
Jeanie said:
Hi ya'll,

Actually, today a newly minted private pilot and I flew some in my C152- I flew right seat to start getting used to that side.
We set it up for a controlled emergency descent through clouds like this: carb heat on, throttle idle, full flaps, full nose up trim, hands in lap, rudder only for wings level and small adjustments back on course. Worked like a dream - she just quietly floated downwards ... course there was no turbulence, or clouds but it was good practice and it gave us a chance to talk about inadverdent VFR into IMC.
I'll check out the videos you posted now.
Click to expand...

Congratulations on the new certificate.
Dudley Henriques
 
Geico266 said:
I was just talking to an IFR pilot about getting through a layer of clouds if you get caught on top without an AH. Here the layer of clouds is about 2'000' thick, 1,000' AGL. He said one way to do it is go into a spin until you are clear of the clouds. :yikes:

I soloed in 1954 as a 16 year old kid. Aeronca Champs were the norm. I was actually taught that technique of getting down through a layer if caught on top. I never did have to use it:D

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
www.indianhillsairpark.com
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Dudley Henriques said:
Congratulations on the new certificate.
Dudley Henriques
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I'll tell Paul you said so :smile: - He needs to know about this forum - I'll send him a quick email.

what do you think of the way we set up the plane to descend?
 
Hi Paul,

I bet in an Aeronca Champ that would be a fairly comfy way to go unless you hit a lump before you were clear...........


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I soloed in 1954 as a 16 year old kid. Aeronca Champs were the norm. I was actually taught that technique of getting down through a layer if caught on top. I never did have to use it:D

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
www.indianhillsairpark.com[/quote]
 
Jeanie said:
I'll tell Paul you said so :smile: - He needs to know about this forum - I'll send him a quick email.

what do you think of the way we set up the plane to descend?
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This method was in vogue for non instrumented aircraft and non instrumented pilots about the time I started learning to fly. Barring severe turbulence that destabilizes the aircraft, the technique can be executed successfully.
Spinning was also a suggested alternative technique, as in the spin the aircraft is completely stabilized on it's spin axis and in asymmetrical stall in auto-rotation which considering a successful recovery could conceivably be used to descend through solid overcast.
I never had occasion to try either one really, but in theory at least, both might just work.
Personally I always liked the cat and duck method :)
 
As long it's not a calico cat - they can be quite contrary at times :)
 
No worries - it's just always a good idea to be mindful of any female's apparent mood :) and in the case of the feline kind calicos can be especially tricky

look at the question I posted about parachutes... any suggestions?
 
Jeanie said:
No worries - it's just always a good idea to be mindful of any female's apparent mood :) and in the case of the feline kind calicos can be especially tricky

look at the question I posted about parachutes... any suggestions?
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Worked for 46 years so far with my lovely bride anyway :))

Sorry; don't see a thing about chutes in the thread.
 
it's another new thread under the "aerobatics" forum ....
 
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