A swell new toy.

AdamZ said:
Swell hell that is amazing!
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Amazingly expensive. hopefully we will not waste money on something we really do not need. The US defense budget is already higher than anyone elses on the planet. We need to cut spending on all federal programs including stuff like this. As much as I like cool planes the fact is we do not need something like this to fight our enemies.
 
I was thinking I would snap that up for my next airplane. Then I started thinking that he annual might be a little pricey....oh well.

John
 
ScottM said:
Amazingly expensive. hopefully we will not waste money on something we really do not need. The US defense budget is already higher than anyone elses on the planet. We need to cut spending on all federal programs including stuff like this. As much as I like cool planes the fact is we do not need something like this to fight our enemies.
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I don't have the info to agree or disagree that we need this to fight our enemies, I just think its a cool plane.
 
My favorite part was "we've compromised nothing. We have a maneuverable combat aircraft equivalent to any that's out there."

UGH!!!.....

This thing is such a P.O.S. - the STOVL is for Navy and Marines which primarily are concerned with CAS. Guess what this "no compromise" airplane doesn't have? A gun. And it's supposed to replace the A-10? RIIIIIIIGGGHHHTTTTT...
 
Didn't we run into a problem of a bunch of our guys dying in a conflict because our jets didn't have a gun and the bad guys did? I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure I remember hearing that.
 
bigred177 said:
Didn't we run into a problem of a bunch of our guys dying in a conflict because our jets didn't have a gun and the bad guys did? I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure I remember hearing that.
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Air to air combat in Vietnam. MIGs vs. F-4s, I think. They also instituted Top Gun as a result of atrophying air to air combat skills. Air to air missiles were supposed to make dogfighting obsolete. Nobody told the MIG pilots.

John
 
jsstevens said:
Air to air combat in Vietnam. MIGs vs. F-4s, I think. They also instituted Top Gun as a result of atrophying air to air combat skills. Air to air missiles were supposed to make dogfighting obsolete. Nobody told the MIG pilots.

John
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Yup, and it's a lot easier (and cheaper) to decoy missiles than it is for the missiles to beat the decoys. Got to have guns!

This is just one example of the shortfalls we are being handed with this airplane- there are M A N Y! People are touting this as the end-all of fighters, it can't fully substitute for any aircraft we have - much less all of them. Ugh.... :confused:
 
Pardon me, but hasn't the nature of war changed from the Cold War model where two very advanced nations would duke it out with their hot toys? The conflicts we're in lately don't require any sort of advanced dogfighting capability. We've got over a hundred Raptors already... shouldn't that be enough for air-to-air work? When's the last time we were engaged in any serious air-to-air combat? Operation Bolo?
I'm of the opinion that the USAF or Army should get a bunch of single seat turboprops, load them to the gills with rockets, cluster bombs and 20mm cannon, and let them do the close air support role instead of supercomplicated and expensive jets. Put five turboprops in an area for the cost of one jet.
What the armed forces need, I am arguing, is a thoroughly contemporary, next-gen Skyraider... not the next F/A-18.
 
Telemakhos said:
Pardon me, but hasn't the nature of war changed from the Cold War model where two very advanced nations would duke it out with their hot toys? The conflicts we're in lately don't require any sort of advanced dogfighting capability. We've got over a hundred Raptors already... shouldn't that be enough for air-to-air work? When's the last time we were engaged in any serious air-to-air combat? Operation Bolo?
I'm of the opinion that the USAF or Army should get a bunch of single seat turboprops, load them to the gills with rockets, cluster bombs and 20mm cannon, and let them do the close air support role instead of supercomplicated and expensive jets. Put five turboprops in an area for the cost of one jet.
What the armed forces need, I am arguing, is a thoroughly contemporary, next-gen Skyraider... not the next F/A-18.
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Yep agree completely and I am ex-USAF. As much as I love these cool jets they are not what need nor are they even close to what we should be spending these days.
 
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