A Solution to the Airport Car Dilemma?

Brad Z

Brad Z

Final Approach
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Brad Z
Last December, I posted a message on the Red Board about RelayRides, a service that matches car owners with renters. Here's an article in Yahoo about it:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/rent-car-15-hour-163953841.html

Well, I'm finally trying an experiment...I have dropped off my spare Isuzu Trooper for the summer at WWD, Cape May County Airport, and have listed it on the site (www.relayrides.com).
I've set the daily rate to the lowest possible- $5/hr, $20/day (I get a percentage of this, the rest goes to insurance). I've limited rentals to only pilots, in hopes that I can slightly tilt the odds in favor of not getting a "bad" renter. I'm paying $30/month to park the car so if I get that back I'm happy.

I've arranged with the FBO to take care of handing the key over, and explained what I'm doing, and they seem supportive.

I'm hoping that other pilots may do the same at other airports, forming a network of low-cost, accessible rentals.

In case you're interested in reading more about it, the link is here: https://relayrides.com/car-rental/rio-grande/isuzu-trooper/18291

If the experiment goes well, I may put it up for rental at VKX, my home airport outside of DC, for the rest of the year.
 
How is the rate on commercial insurance for the Trooper?

Looked into it for a 1987 Ford Van for a club recently and it was God awful.

You just thinking your liability insurance covers someone else's wreck if you're holding it out for hire as a rental?

Be careful with that...
 
denverpilot said:
How is the rate on commercial insurance for the Trooper?

Looked into it for a 1987 Ford Van for a club recently and it was God awful.

You just thinking your liability insurance covers someone else's wreck if you're holding it out for hire as a rental?

Be careful with that...
Click to expand...
Relayrides provides the insurance.
https://relayrides.com/insurance

Granted I'd probably be trying to figure out a way to have the vehicle registered in the name of a corporation...
 
denverpilot said:
How is the rate on commercial insurance for the Trooper?

Looked into it for a 1987 Ford Van for a club recently and it was God awful.

You just thinking your liability insurance covers someone else's wreck if you're holding it out for hire as a rental?

Be careful with that...
Click to expand...

Like Jesse mentioned, RelayRides covers the insurance. It's well established in the Boston area with quite a few cars getting rented. There have been cases of losses, but so far it seems RR has handled the insurance with no liability on the owner.
 
Great idea Brad. I will book your car next time I go to Cape May for the day/weekend. Is there a system in place to leave the key if the FBO is closed?

Andrew
 
That is a good idea. I have been toying with the idea of buying an airport car to leave at W75
 
AirDC said:
Great idea Brad. I will book your car next time I go to Cape May for the day/weekend. Is there a system in place to leave the key if the FBO is closed?

Andrew
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Not at the moment, but there will be shortly. In the meantime, you're local, so I can get a key to you if give me a heads up.

EDIT: and yes, there is a process if you return the car after hours...the FBO doesn't need to be open.
 
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Wish I would have known. I took a cab this past weekend.... First place I shared a cab, and both of us got charged a full fare!

I will def book your truck through relay rides next trip! Does Clarence know about the car? Nice people at the fbo!

Mike
 
Mike5250 said:
Wish I would have known. I took a cab this past weekend.... First place I shared a cab, and both of us got charged a full fare!

I will def book your truck through relay rides next trip! Does Clarence know about the car? Nice people at the fbo!

Mike
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He does! I asked him, to make sure it would be OK. I think they are generally supportive of it, and are willing to take care of the "handing over the key" process for me, once I call and let them know who is allowed to drive it.

Next time you're out there and do decide to book the car, shoot me a message through the relayrides site and let me know you're a blue boarder.
 
Brad that is cool. Good chance I'll be driving that Trooper sometime this summer. Curious why WWD. Do you have a summer place there?

They used to rent at WWD, Hertz I think. I guess this program only works where there is no rental outlet and no existing courtesy car. Neat idea.
 
AdamZ said:
Brad that is cool. Good chance I'll be driving that Trooper sometime this summer. Curious why WWD. Do you have a summer place there?

They used to rent at WWD, Hertz I think. I guess this program only works where there is no rental outlet and no existing courtesy car. Neat idea.
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We do not, but I grew up spending summers on the NJ Shore. WWD is a frequent daytrip destination for us, so between having a spare car that never gets used, and a destination with less than stellar ground transportation, it seemed worth a shot. The Hertz guy closes at noon on Saturday, and frequently is out of cars. Another local outfit will drop a car off but that entails faxing documents back and forth.

Like flying, I'm sure in the end taxis and rental cars are cheaper. But nothing is better than flying to your destination, hopping in your car, and doing your thing. At about 50 minutes flying time, we'll fly up just to go to dinner.
 
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Excellent idea. The widespread absence of crew cars is unfortunate. Lots of places I'd go if they had them.
 
steingar said:
Excellent idea. The widespread absence of crew cars is unfortunate. Lots of places I'd go if they had them.
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Funny thing is, plenty of those airports with no crew car have a few "airport cars" for folks who fly in from time to time. Seems like an opportunity for both the FBO (if rentals aren't ordinarily available) and the car owner (someone needs to keep the battery charged).
 
Brad Z said:
Funny thing is, plenty of those airports with no crew car have a few "airport cars" for folks who fly in from time to time. Seems like an opportunity for both the FBO (if rentals aren't ordinarily available) and the car owner (someone needs to keep the battery charged).
Click to expand...

Where I am many are gone.
 
Good idea.

How do you limit to renting only to pilots?
 
mikegreen said:
Good idea.

How do you limit to renting only to pilots?
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I specify in my listing "This vehicle is only available to Certified Pilots using Cape May County Airport." RelayRides has no policy on restricting who you may rent your car to.

As such, I just run their name through the FAA pilot database. I don't have to do this, but my personal experience has been that fellow pilot is less likely to rag out my car than some dude who just got his car repo'd and is looking for cheap wheels. And honestly, I'm doing this to help other pilots who are in need of wheels.
 
Brad Z said:
I specify in my listing "This vehicle is only available to Certified Pilots using Cape May County Airport." RelayRides has no policy on restricting who you may rent your car to.

As such, I just run their name through the FAA pilot database. I don't have to do this, but my personal experience has been that fellow pilot is less likely to rag out my car than some dude who just got his car repo'd and is looking for cheap wheels. And honestly, I'm doing this to help other pilots who are in need of wheels.
Click to expand...


That is a great idea! Wonderful that you are signing on. Cape May is probably the best part of of the Jersey shore (ducks for cover!). Never know I may also be trying it out soon.

Gary
 
steingar said:
Excellent idea. The widespread absence of crew cars is unfortunate. Lots of places I'd go if they had them.
Click to expand...

In one of the places I recently went to the airport car is gone because an idiot pilot wrecked it and left the wreck in town without telling anyone. After getting the car out of impound the scrap value barely paid the impound bill. Then there is of course the liability risk to whoever provides the car.

It's a miracle that there are any courtesy cars.
 
Brad Z said:
He does! I asked him, to make sure it would be OK. I think they are generally supportive of it, and are willing to take care of the "handing over the key" process for me, once I call and let them know who is allowed to drive it.

Next time you're out there and do decide to book the car, shoot me a message through the relayrides site and let me know you're a blue boarder.
Click to expand...

I definitely will. Now I have a reason to go back even sooner.
 
AdamZ said:
Brad that is cool. Good chance I'll be driving that Trooper sometime this summer. Curious why WWD. Do you have a summer place there?

They used to rent at WWD, Hertz I think. I guess this program only works where there is no rental outlet and no existing courtesy car. Neat idea.
Click to expand...


Lets fly down!
 
I just tried to sign my car up for this and leave it at the local airport. To get into the system you have to register with your legal name, email, phone number. I'm out. Was going to leave my nice but unused Golf at the local airport for $5/$20. Guess I could still leave it up there, and just put a note on the window and the door of the FBO.
 
docmirror said:
I just tried to sign my car up for this and leave it at the local airport. To get into the system you have to register with your legal name, email, phone number. I'm out. Was going to leave my nice but unused Golf at the local airport for $5/$20. Guess I could still leave it up there, and just put a note on the window and the door of the FBO.
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I suspect they want to make sure you're legitimate since they are insuring your car during the time of rental and paying you money. That's the real value of using the service.
 
Brad Z said:
I suspect they want to make sure you're legitimate since they are insuring your car during the time of rental and paying you money. That's the real value of using the service.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I didn't explain it well. This isn't even the contract part of the offer. This is just to get to the contract part. While I'm sure there are more detailed things to work out, I'm not going to just give my personal info to them to resell on the internet. No thanks. There isn't even a method for offering a snail mail address to work through, they have to have your email and your cell phone(to text back a 'confirmation' code). It sounds much like phishing to me. personal name, email addr and cell phone number are valuable commodities on the info resale market.
 
Example A: Can I close my account?
At this time there is no formal way to close your RelayRides account.

Example B: Your account is not completed yet. To get your car reservation into our system, we need your payment method: *Credit card number:

*The name on your credit card must match the name on your driver’s license. We do not accept pre-paid credit cards.
 
docmirror said:
Perhaps I didn't explain it well. This isn't even the contract part of the offer. This is just to get to the contract part. While I'm sure there are more detailed things to work out, I'm not going to just give my personal info to them to resell on the internet. No thanks. There isn't even a method for offering a snail mail address to work through, they have to have your email and your cell phone(to text back a 'confirmation' code). It sounds much like phishing to me. personal name, email addr and cell phone number are valuable commodities on the info resale market.
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Understood. To each his own. Personally, I haven't had any problems.

I have to ask, though: how would they notify you that someone wants to rent your car through snail mail?
 
Brad Z said:
Understood. To each his own. Personally, I haven't had any problems.

I have to ask, though: how would they notify you that someone wants to rent your car through snail mail?
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They wouldn't. They would call my house phone, ask if they could send my car out, and I would say ok. But, you can't get anywhere near that point unless you give up all your other info. I just don't fit the all info, to anyone, anytime mold. It's my loss.
 
docmirror said:
They wouldn't. They would call my house phone, ask if they could send my car out, and I would say ok. But, you can't get anywhere near that point unless you give up all your other info. I just don't fit the all info, to anyone, anytime mold. It's my loss.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you understand how RelayRides works. No one from RelayRides calls you.

You list your car. If someone wants to rent your car, they click to make a request. At that time you get an email/text indicating that someone wants to rent your car, what times, etc.

You can approve or deny. If you approve, the renter then books the car, which locks it in and puts a billing hold on the renter. You then arrange to check the driver's license, hand over keys, walk around the car, etc.

With a smartphone it works very easily. It's not for everyone, though.
 
Brad Z said:
I'm not sure you understand how RelayRides works. No one from RelayRides calls you.

You list your car. If someone wants to rent your car, they click to make a request. At that time you get an email/text indicating that someone wants to rent your car, what times, etc.

You can approve or deny. If you approve, the renter then books the car, which locks it in and puts a billing hold on the renter. You then arrange to check the driver's license, hand over keys, walk around the car, etc.

With a smartphone it works very easily. It's not for everyone, though.
Click to expand...

And you don't understand that I can't get anywhere near that point without giving a third party all my private info. This is my third post with the same explanation.
 
What a great idea! Sadly nothing @ Kbid but if we get to Kwwd, we will use the service. Thanks for posting this!!!
 
docmirror said:
And you don't understand that I can't get anywhere near that point without giving a third party all my private info. This is my third post with the same explanation.
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What do you expect ? You want them to provide insurance coverage for your car but you are not willing to share who you are, well, then maybe their business model is not right for you.
 
weilke said:
What do you expect ? You want them to provide insurance coverage for your car but you are not willing to share who you are, well, then maybe their business model is not right for you.
Click to expand...

His issue is that they won't even let him see the deal he would have to agree too without providing the information.

Basically he doesn't want to share his info just to see if he wants to do business with them.
 
Luckily about 90% of the airports and FBO's I fly into in the greater midwest have free service cars or crew cars. They usually just keep a crown vic from the sheriffs dept rather than sell it at auction when it gets close to run out.

There is usually a 4-6 hr limit and you put gas in it. Sometimes they let you keep it over night if you get there about closing and bring it back by noon the next day.

When I flew into NYC area I just took a train/bus or called a AOPA buddy.
It is a good idea to have an old airport car, especially if you can trade it out for other airport cars within a group of guys. We do that with 2nd homes too.
 
Brad, how has your experience been. I would like to propose to the powers that be at our airport about something similar. We have two airports in our county. At one, Uber is probably the best. There are plenty of uber, lyft, etc. drivers already driving around.

At the other more rural airport, Uber is less available. I was thinking something like relay rides or "getaround" would be good. We did have Zipcars available for a while, but the demand was too low.

I am really surprised that these services havent caught on more with our pilot group. You would think we would be on this like bees to honey or am i missing something?

Thanks for any update!
 
jchang10 said:
Brad, how has your experience been. I would like to propose to the powers that be at our airport about something similar. We have two airports in our county. At one, Uber is probably the best. There are plenty of uber, lyft, etc. drivers already driving around.

At the other more rural airport, Uber is less available. I was thinking something like relay rides or "getaround" would be good. We did have Zipcars available for a while, but the demand was too low.

I am really surprised that these services havent caught on more with our pilot group. You would think we would be on this like bees to honey or am i missing something?

Thanks for any update!
Click to expand...

It's been a couple years, so I'll explain what happened:

I re-positioned my spare Isuzu Trooper up to WWD in June 2013, and entrusted the FBO with holding the keys. Things worked quite well- ride requests would come to me via email, I would vet them, and if I approved the ride, I sent an email to the FBO and they would make a copy of the renter's DL and hand over the keys. The car stayed reasonably booked, and because I charged the RR minimum rate, I didn't expect to get rich. It did cover the $30/month the FBO charged for parking the car there.

The only headaches were getting requests from non-pilots (presumably to use the car for moving large items, etc.). I clearly stated in the description it was only for certificated pilots flying into WWD.

Quite a few renters were folks from POA and other places where I mentioned the car. Whenever I flew up, the car seemed to be kept reasonably clean and gassed.

Things took a dark turn the following winter. I flew up one January 2014 afternoon to find the car literally trashed, dented, windows broken, etc. I went into the FBO to notify them. "Oh, the FBO didn't didn't call you?"

Long story short, it turns out that two of the FBO employees (including Clarence, who had been the FBO manager at WWD for years), "went bad". By the time I got up there, they were already in jail, and it turns out the other employee had given my car to her boyfriend to use and trash.

Epilogue- the owner of flight level aviation offered to pay to fix the car. I countered by offering to sell it to them for FMV (minus the devaluation resulting from the damage) and essentially handed the title over to them and washed my hands of the deal.

Lesson learned-- Even nice friendly employees can be trying to cheat you, as the owner found out.

Aside from that, the RelayRide experience was fine. Since the damage was not a result of renters, they had nothing to do with it so they did not get involved.

It certainly demonstrated a need, and if I had another spare car I might be willing to do it again if I felt I could trust the FBO to handle the keyholding. For FBOs, it certainly seems like a cheap way to get into the rental market, as RR covers insurance. To me, not having wheels is one of the most frustrating aspects of intermediate stops along the way to my destination. It's even more so now for us, as now we have a kid, so we can't just jump in the back of a pickup truck of the farmer/pilot heading into town.
 
jchang10 said:
Brad, how has your experience been. I would like to propose to the powers that be at our airport about something similar. We have two airports in our county. At one, Uber is probably the best. There are plenty of uber, lyft, etc. drivers already driving around.

At the other more rural airport, Uber is less available. I was thinking something like relay rides or "getaround" would be good. We did have Zipcars available for a while, but the demand was too low.

I am really surprised that these services havent caught on more with our pilot group. You would think we would be on this like bees to honey or am i missing something?

Thanks for any update!
Click to expand...

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing more Uber availability in small and rural markets. I just don't keep the number for every cab company ever known in my phone. Uber is still very hit & miss outside of the larger markets.
 
Thanks for the update. I appreciate the report and update. It sounds pretty good.

Like you say, the biggest issue will just be who will hold the keys and hand them out. We dont have an FBO on the airport, so that will be an issue to figure out. Just starting the process for now.

Thanks again!
 
jchang10 said:
Thanks for the update. I appreciate the report and update. It sounds pretty good.

Like you say, the biggest issue will just be who will hold the keys and hand them out. We dont have an FBO on the airport, so that will be an issue to figure out. Just starting the process for now.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

I kept a lockbox with a key that was accessible for after hours access. You would just need to change the combo periodically.
 
It was a nice Isuzu too! Too bad it turned out that way. Clarence had a good reputation there before the incident.

Do you still fly to wwd often?
 
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