A Royal PIA!!! IFR arrival slots at ski area airports-

colomtnflyer

colomtnflyer

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Guess it depends on what week it is!
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iAM in AK!
Lucky me!

Because of my familiarity with the mtn airports of Colorado, I was "volunteered" to help attempt to obtain the arrival slots we needed for Aspen (ASE), Eagle (EGE), and Rifle (RIL)over the Xmas holidays.

With almost 3/4 of our fleet heading in that general direction at some point during the Dec 22nd - Jan 5th time period, it is no easy feat to achieve. These same slot requirements also exist at Sun Valley , ID (SUN) and Jackson Hole, WY (JAC).

Even with the eSTMP website running on several computers simultaneously, and showing the atomic clock (official US time), we still got shut out yesterday and today. No slots at all! :dunno:

I did take a minute to chat with Flow Control on the phone. They told me that for each of the 2 slots available each 15 minutes at the CO airports, they were getting over 4000 hits each allottment period. :hairraise:

Let's see--- 3 mtn airports, 2 slots each, every 15 minutes, equaling 24 slots per hour, and over 16000 attempts to access them. Not very many happy people at the end of that days allocations... (Me included!) :mad:

Came in again today to see what slots might have been released for what ever reasons. We got a call from ARINC, and they had 3 slots they would let us have! Two to RIL, one to EGE. DUH! Of course we snapped them right up! Better than nothing! :)

This is the most frustrating thing I have had to deal with in ages! Worse is that I'm supposed to be on one of the flights to EGE! (Gotta get home and make a few turns...) :redface:

Apparently this system overloads on a regular basis, anytime there is a huge sporting event, or high season in a particular place, such as a NASCAR race, or a holiday during ski season. :(

And I thought dinner reservations in Vail were hard to get at this time of the year!!!! These makes that seem easy! :yes:
 
colomtnflyer said:
Let's see--- 3 mtn airports, 2 slots each, every 15 minutes, equaling 24 slots per hour, and over 16000 attempts to access them. Not very many happy people at the end of that days allocations... (Me included!) :mad:
Click to expand...

Ooooh! I just came up with my business plan for my career in eBay! :goofy:
 
no tricks available, like filing to a nearby airport then continuing to the ski hill vfr? This is pt 135, I guess.

I read where some of these folks were trying to snag slots they could never use, but they want the option to take folks there in case the opportunity arose...are there penalties for not using an assigned slot?
 
These reservations are NEVER available. The Frac have guys like colomtnflyer with an army of ladies on the computers. You can only get in after 11:00 pm, (when the airport is closed) or prior to 6:00 a.m (when the airport is closed).

More in the national pattern of denying service to GA. Just like the program at Ohare (ecvrs), in which you can NEVER get a slot. And NO PENALTY for not using the slot.
 
The Arrival Slot Reservation system is in effect from 8am till 6 pm at each of the airports. And you will not get a clearance to the airport with an ETA within in those hours unless you have a reservation number. Some will try to use one of the airports as a waypoint, and if its VFR as they pass over, they ask to descend below 180, cancel IFR, and go in VFR, while remaining in sight of the airport. This way they do not require an arrival slot. The airports really frown on this method, but there is not much they can do about it.

But in the case of most hi-performance aircraft, just asking for lower, from 400, while in over the mtns, is NOT going to get you below 180. We could probably pull it off in a King Air flyig at 220 or so, but a sudden drop of 20,000 ft or more by a jet would be extremely suspicious. And most company Pt 135 op specs mandate an IFR flight plan from point to point.

Even if you do manage to cancel IFR, you may have to circle around for awhile, as inbound IFR traffic will be given priority and VFR/IFR departures crowd the issue. But you may burn a lot of fuel in the process of waiting. Ultimately, yes, they must let you land. But it may not happen right away. I have heard tales of some controllers really making it tough on those who attempt this ploy.

I also heard that this year, Rifle (RIL) is charging a "non-appearance" fee if you had reserved ramp space and then end up arriving at one of the other airports. Kind of cancellation fee of sorts, I guess.

Here is a related kind of story... Guess what a Chevy Suburban rents for, by the day, in these areas during these high periods? $500 a day, or $3000 a week!

TALK ABOUT GOUGING! (oh ya, they are sold out!)
 
bbchien said:
More in the national pattern of denying service to GA. Just like the program at Ohare (ecvrs), in which you can NEVER get a slot. And NO PENALTY for not using the slot.
Click to expand...

Bruce,
I think there are penalties now. I'm not sure of the date, but in late 05 or early 06 (if I remember correctly) the FAA changed the registration system to require reservations be reconfirmed between 12 and 24 hours prior to arrival or departure. If not reconfirmed, they would be canceled. They also stated they would monitor reservations that had the same tail number with two different arrival or departure times and would bar those aircraft from using the reservation system if they were found to be "cheating".

I don't what's happened since. I looked briefly for the reference, but did not run across it. Seems like I may have read it on the NBAA website, but not sure.

gary
 
The problem is at the big frac operators, where there are 400 tail numbers. You can have a bevy of office staff entering many tail numbers in, and reconfirming them at 36 hours. No duplication. Then you can swap with two computers, deleting one, and immediately re-entering the one that IS going to go......they've been gaming it for several years.
 
Rumor Control has it that the fractionals get about 80% of the available slots, just as you said, because they have dedicated personnel doing nothing but that. Thats why they brought me in, so it would not pull dispatchers away from their other responsibilities.

In the long run, we have managed to get all of our aircraft to their destinations today. I will be on board one of the last planes to depart for Colorado, in about 2 hrs.

The weather has been lifting in Aspen, and general clearing has made for some easy approaches. But I'm not sure how long it will hold...

I'm still hoping for decent weather for my trip back to Texas on Saturday evening. Only icing will keep me from lifting off that evening. If that happens, its home on SouthWest....
 
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